"Adam's Sin Cannot Defeat Christ's Victory.

[Jack Straw]

Originally posted by netchaplain,

Realizing most will perish increases the urgency of outreach and being aware of this truism can cause us to be more knowledgeable of God’s ways of using us to draw others to Christ.

The question could be asked, “Since God is omniscient and knew most would not choose His way, why did He create man? One reply could be, “He did it for the sake of those He knew would be saved”!

The belief that most people (unbelievers) will perish forever (or be tormented throughout eternity) is the product of man's carnal, worldly reasoning - not God's perfect Truth. God's wondrous plan was in Himself before He pressed "play" to begin time on earth. Christ was crucified BEFORE the foundation of the world. (Revelation 13:8; 1 Peter 1:20)

1 Corinthians 15:22: "For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive."

In the above verse there are two clauses. If one clause is true, the other MUST also be true. Adam brought the sin nature into every man without their consent . . . likewise Christ brought salvation into every man without their consent. The "ALLs" in this verse are the same; the SAME people are covered - ALL people.

Romans 11:32: "For God has shut up ALL in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon ALL."

Again, the "ALLs" are the same.

From before the foundation of the world, God had full knowledge that Adam would fall and drag every human being down with him. He had the power to alter that outcome, but He did not because He knew that the final outcome of His plan of salvation, later to be unveiled, would bring ALL back into Himself and that nothing would be lost:

Matthew 18:12: "How think you? if a man has a hundred sheep, and ONE OF THEM be gone astray, does he not leave the ninety and nine, and go into the mountains, and seek that which is gone astray?"

The Shepherd will not lose even ONE. And the lost sheep do not seek after The Shepherd, but rather The Shepherd seeks after the lost sheep. The majority of Christendom has it backwards.

Paul said:

1 Timothy 2:1,3-6: "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for ALL, to be testified in due time."

God's will has no weakness in it. "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself." (2 Corinthians 5:19).

Jesus said:

John 12:32: "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, WILL DRAW ALL MEN UNTO ME."

Christ was lifted up at Calvary and He said He will draw ALL MEN unto Himself. Unless God DRAWS someone to Him, NO ONE can come to Christ:

John 6:44: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them"

No one can come to Christ unless God draws them to Him - because after all, there is NONE that seek God on their own:

Romans 3:11: "There is NONE who understands, there is NONE WHO SEEKS AFTER GOD."



Paul says:

1 Timothy 4:10: "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of ALL MEN, ESPECIALLY of those that believe."

Especially = Malista

The Greek word that is translated ESPECIALLY is Malista.

Strong's - G3122 Malista - mal'-is-tah - Neuter plural of the superlative of an apparently primary adverb Mala (very); (adverb) most (in the greatest degree) or particularly: - chiefly, most of all, (e-) specially.

The word Malista is a superlative. Thayer's Lexicon states that malista is an adverbial superlative confirming Strong's description. Smith's dictionary defines Malista - "raised above others to the highest degree." Webster's states - "Highest in degree; most eminent; surpassing all other - expressing the highest or utmost degree; as the superlative degree of comparison."

Observe how the word is used elsewhere in the Bible:

Philippians 4:22: "All the saints salute you, chiefly (malista) they that are of Caesar's household."

Malista is translated as chiefly in this verse. First, there is a primary group (the saints), and then a secondary group (the saints in the household of Caesar).

1 Timothy 5:8: "But if any provide not for his own, and especially (malista) for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

Here Malista is again translated especially. This is a group within a group. The first group are those within the family. The second group (especially = malista) are those within the family that reside in their own house(s).

Galatians 6:10: "As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially (malista) unto them who are of the household of faith."

Paul tells us to do good unto ALL men but especially (malista) those who are of the household of faith.

Acts 25:26: "Of whom I have no certain thing to write unto my lord. Wherefore I have brought him forth before you, and especially (malista) before thee, O king Agrippa, that after examination had, I might have somewhat to write."

Here Malista translated as especially. Festus says that he has brought Paul to the place of hearing in Caesarea so that he could appear before "you" - and especially (malista) the king. The "you" is the group made up of the chief captains and the principal men of the city. The second group (especially = malista) is an individual; King Agrippa.

2 Timothy 4:13: "The cloak that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially (malista) the parchments."

Paul wanted some things brought to him as well as some books - and out of ALL the books at Troas, Paul especially (malista) wanted the parchments.



I think the point of how the word Malista is used in the Scripture has been made. Now back to Timothy:

1 Timothy 4:10: "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of ALL MEN, ESPECIALLY (malista) of those that believe."

All of the Scripture passages plainly show how the word Malista is used, and the definition of the Greek word is clear. The question is, if ALL MEN are not saved than there is no reason for a superlative (Malista) to describe believers in 1 Timothy 4:10. Paul would simply say "God is the Savior of all believers"; rather than "God is the Savior of ALL MEN, ESPECIALLY (malista) of those that believe."

The idea that the majority of mankind will perish comes from the traditions of men, and is rooted in the devil. The devil wants mankind to believe that Christ's death and resurrection was a colossal failure.... that only a handful of people will be saved, and the majority will perish, or be tortured forever is some cosmic crock pot. Nonsense!

How could ADAM'S SIN have more power than THE CROSS? It can't! And it doesn't! The devil wants everyone to believe that Adam's fall has more power than Christ's victory, but it's a lie. Whether it's on this side of the grave, or the other side, ALL will be saved -- (see Revelation 2:26-27; 20:6 for a hint). The devil has been concealing the fact that Jesus SAVED ALL, the whole WORLD..... not just a small handful of souls.

1 Corinthians 15:22: "For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL BE MADE ALIVE."

Colossians 1:20: "And through Him to reconcile to Himself ALL THINGS, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through His blood, shed on the cross."

God bless and peace.

 

[reba]

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

 

[savedbygrace57]

"Adam's Sin Cannot Defeat Christ's Victory.

Thats True, and that is why only those who did not sin in Adam originally will here these words Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Jack Straw]

Originally posted by savedbygrace57,

That is why only those who did not sin in Adam originally will here these words


Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I'm not sure I follow you. Please explain further.

 

[Adullam]

The OP could mean two opposite things..

It could mean that some one who abides in Christ cannot sin (as the bible says)

or it could mean Christ's victory means we can sin with impunity and never lose our standing...as the false gospel presents....

 

[savedbygrace57]

I'm not sure I follow you. Please explain further.

It is pretty self explanatory. Those who shall hear the words of the Saviour Matt 7:23, its obvious they were not sinners in Adam from the beginning ! They were not Christ's sheep. Christ has always known His Sheep, these characters He says that He never knew !

 

[reba]

It is pretty self explanatory. Those who shall hear the words of the Saviour Matt 7:23, its obvious they were not sinners in Adam from the beginning ! They were not Christ's sheep. Christ has always known His Sheep, these characters He says that He never knew !

These folks were born sinless?

 

[felix]

These folks were born sinless?

All are born as sinless. Mankind are born with the curse of death and with knowledge of good and evil - not sin.

Prove me wrong from Scriptures.

 

[savedbygrace57]

These folks were born sinless?

They were ? Care to explain ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

felix

All are born as sinless

You are deceived !

Prove me wrong from Scriptures.

Sorry, that would have to be God's Will for you to be proved wrong from scripture, and I believe it is His will for you to be deceived !

 

[reba]

It is pretty self explanatory. Those who shall hear the words of the Saviour Matt 7:23, its obvious they were not sinners in Adam from the beginning ! They were not Christ's sheep. Christ has always known His Sheep, these characters He says that He never knew !

These folks were born sinless?

This was question to you SBG

 

[savedbygrace57]

This was question to you SBG

Why ? I never stated anyone was sinless, not ever ! So please explain your self !

 

[Jack Straw]

SBG,

I don't have the ability to read your mind. Would you be so kind as to be a little more thorough and clear when you post. There's a bit of mis-communication going on in these last few posts. SBG, start from the top of your thought where you said:

It is pretty self explanatory. Those who shall hear the words of the Saviour Matt 7:23, its obvious they were not sinners in Adam from the beginning ! They were not Christ's sheep. Christ has always known His Sheep, these characters He says that He never knew!

Explain this clearly and thoroughly because this is where the confusion began in the thread.

Thank you. Peace and God bless.

 

[Sinthesis]

All are born as sinless. Mankind are born with the curse of death and with knowledge of good and evil - not sin.

Prove me wrong from Scriptures.

Ask and ye shall receive.istorted

Psa 51:5 - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.​

 

[savedbygrace57]

jack

SBG,

I don't have the ability to read your mind.

Then read my posts, and previous threads, I have already explained many times what I mean !

 

[Drew]

All are born as sinless. Mankind are born with the curse of death and with knowledge of good and evil - not sin.

Prove me wrong from Scriptures.

As some will know, we have been through this before. You are taking a very unusual position that the overwhelming majority of Christians believe is unBiblical. Now I am the first to say that the majority is not always correct.

But in this case, I am confident that they are. The scriptures do indeed teach that men are born with an innate propensity to sin - a sin nature.

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

How can you possibly take this text seriously and not believe the actions of Adam have deadly consequences for us. And how can this not mean that we are born "in sin". Obviously, at the point of birth, we have not yet committed any "active" sins. But Paul connects our "death" to Adam and, in other places, Paul clearly connects sin to death.

So I do not see how it is possible to maintain the notion that we are not, in some sense, born "in sin".

I would have to concede that there may not be a wealth of texts that directly assert we are born with a sin nature. But I think the broad Biblical narrative hits us over the head with the proposition that men are born with a "sin nature".

More later.

 

[Jack Straw]

Originally posted by savedbygrace57,

Then read my posts, and previous threads, I have already explained many times what I mean!

I just joined the forum, and I wasn't aware of your other previous threads regarding this subject. unno Excuse me for asking

 

[Jack Straw]

Originally posted by Drew,

The scriptures do indeed teach that men are born with an innate propensity to sin - a sin nature.

Right. Adam had within him the propensity for sin, given the opportunity. His weakness was there. God said his creation of Adam "was good" but "good" in the sense that the creation would accomplish the purposes of God; not in the sense of "perfectness." The fall of Adam was God's plan from the beginning. It did not "take God by surprise" as many theologians believe. God knew what He was doing. Vanity was placed within man by God because He knew it would be "good" for man in the long run; as it would guarantee the revelation of Christ to ALL.

Romans 8:20-21: "For the creation (Adam) was SUBJECTED TO VANITY, NOT WILLINGLY, but BECAUSE OF HIM who subjected it yet with the hope that creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and corruption and gain an entrance into the glorious freedom of God's children."

Adam did NOT have a choice about being created, and neither did he have a choice about the type of person he would be.

Romans 5:18: "So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to ALL MEN, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to ALL MEN."

God bless and peace eace

 

[felix]

Ask and ye shall receive.istorted

Psa 51:5 - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.​

That's David's prayer speaking about his mother. Even if we don't know how David was born as his history starts with Samuel anointing, is it clear that his lineage is based on adultery - sex between Judah and his daughter-in-law. Why would you take his prayer and apply to all?

 

[felix]

As some will know, we have been through this before. You are taking a very unusual position that the overwhelming majority of Christians believe is unBiblical. Now I am the first to say that the majority is not always correct.

But in this case, I am confident that they are. The scriptures do indeed teach that men are born with an innate propensity to sin - a sin nature.

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

How can you possibly take this text seriously and not believe the actions of Adam have deadly consequences for us. And how can this not mean that we are born "in sin". Obviously, at the point of birth, we have not yet committed any "active" sins. But Paul connects our "death" to Adam and, in other places, Paul clearly connects sin to death.

So I do not see how it is possible to maintain the notion that we are not, in some sense, born "in sin".

I would have to concede that there may not be a wealth of texts that directly assert we are born with a sin nature. But I think the broad Biblical narrative hits us over the head with the proposition that men are born with a "sin nature".

More later.

We are all cursed with death in Genesis for the Adam's disobedience. Curse is different from sin. When they ate the fruit of tree of knowledge of good and evil, their eyes are open and can discern good from evil. Hence, every child after their infancy, begins to discern good and evil. If they choose evil, they sin. If they choose good, they don't sin.

From Genesis till Revelation, I find absolutely no verse or reference in Scripture to say, we are all born with sin or sin is inherited. All I can find is how sin is conceived in James 1:14-15.

(Jas 1:14-15) But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.