What does the Bible mean by "Predestination"?

[BornAgain]

?? I didn't know there was different versions of the KJV, other than the NKJV and the first says "predestinate" and the second says "predestined".

I was quoting from Gospel Advocate Commentaries...the scripture in Romans 8:30 does say predestinate.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Romans 8:30 (KJV)

 

[Deborah13]

I agree.. It's CHRIST in them.. Paul just spent a lot of time talking about the SPIRIT of Christ in the believer...

And look at the last portion under discussion here..

Those He justified, He also GLORIFIED !

What is our hope of GLORY.. ?

Is it Christ in me, or Christ and me..?

Do born again Christians actually believe that God is glorifying our old nature.. Our old man according to the flesh..?

I don't and I am born again. I am a new creature in Christ because He said so.
Is my flesh new, NO, is my mind new, NO ( that's a renewing process), but my spirit is NEW. My spirit is one with Jesus' spirit. My spirit is a new creature in Christ, made righteous by Him. So it is Christ in me that is glorified. His grace, His righteousness, His faith, His glory.

 

[rrowell]

?? I didn't know there was different versions of the KJV, other than the NKJV and the first says "predestinate" and the second says "predestined".

It does say "predestinate"

Who do you believe the "whom" is in: "Moreover whom he did predestinate"?

 

[Deborah13]

So you do not see these scriptures of "being conformed to His Image" as something that we may attain to in our life in this world?



2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

I must be misunderstanding what you are trying to say

I think I understand what you are saying with these verses. "so are we in THIS world." He said we would do greater works, the only way we could do this is by being transformed into His image. As we grow in Him, renewing our minds, learning to believe that we have access to Him by the Holy Spirit in our spirit, we are being transformed.

 

[Deborah13]

Re: The old or the new

No! in the mind of the Father the old man "adam" has died with Christ!
We who believe now serve God in "spirit and truth"! It is the "spirit" overcoming the "flesh" that is the conforming to the "Image of Christ"


2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

AMEN and AMEN

 

[Deborah13]

Rom 8:29






For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Now it seems clear that in (2Cor3) Paul by the Holy Spirit goes on to explain how the "conforming to His Image" is to come about by and for the believer.
2Co 3:3



Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.


2Co 3:5



Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2Co 3:6



Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


2Co 3:9



For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2Co 3:17



Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18



But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

I have more scriptures, but want to see if you have any questions?

Wow thank you for these scriptures, I was beginning to feel bogged down. Again Amen and Amen

 

[Mitspa]

I think I understand what you are saying with these verses. "so are we in THIS world." He said we would do greater works, the only way we could do this is by being transformed into His image. As we grow in Him, renewing our minds, learning to believe that we have access to Him by the Holy Spirit in our spirit, we are being transformed.

Yes! as we behold Him In Spirit we are "in spirit" conformed to His most wonderful Image Its Spiritual growth with "natural world" power over the enemy of Gods people! Its the most real thing ever! Because its eternal not temporal, its how we "believers" will be judged and rewarded when we stand before the Throne of God.

 

[savedbygrace57]

What was foreknown though?

Them ! As when Paul said i Rom 11:2

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

 

[savedbygrace57]

mitsa

Yea? He Knew them before they ever was and made a way for them.

Thats not what Rom 8:29 says.

 

[n2thelight]

It's amazing what people come up with in order to avoid the plain truth of scripture.. Which is that every last one of us in the first Adam are under condemnation..

Let's see, we'll come up with a prior earth age where we all existed...

Seriously, where does this nonsense come from ?

Question,are you a son of God?

Now let's go to the book of Job.................

Job 38 King James Version 1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7When the morning stars sang together, and ALL the sons of God shouted for joy?

There was an age before this one we are in now......

Outline of Spiritual Life History in Bible Study Perspective



1. Spiritual Body and Soul Created by God


2. First Earth Age of Dinosaurs


3. Spiritual Existence on Earth During First Earth Age


4. Spiritual Beings Divided with Two Options
4.a – Satan’s rebellion and one third of angels follow
4.b – Other two thirds of angels follow God


5 First Earth Age Destroyed – Current Universe Created


6. Six Day Creation – All Races Male/Female on 6th Day


7. Adam and Eve – 8th Day and Eons of Time Later


8. Original Sin, Nephilim Irruption, Noah’s Flood


9. Israel in Bondage in Egypt 400 Years


10. Law Given to Moses at Mount Sinai


11. Covenent Broken – Messiah Promised


12. New Covenent with Two Options as Christ the Messiah Born
12.a – Christ rejected by non-believers, crucified, risen, and at right hand of God
12.b – Christ accepted by believers as God in the flesh nailing sin to the cross


13. Tribulation – Satan on Holy Mount Does Miracles – Claims to be Messiah
13.a – Deceived humans worship false Messiah and have “mark of the beastâ€

13.b – Believers reject the false Messiah and witness as Holy Spirit speaks through them


14. Millenium – Christ Returns as True Messiah as ALL Transform to Spiritual Bodies
14.a – Satan bound for 1000 years

14.b – Christ and the elect teach truth to lost souls


15. Satan Loosed for a Season and Immediately Defeated


16. Judgment Day and Beginning of Third Earth Age
16.a – Lost souls cast in lake of fire and soul extinguished never to be remembered
16.b – Believers have life eternal on earth refreshed as new heaven and earth created


17. God Dwells on Earth with Believers, so Earth is Heaven with God Amongst Us


This outline is simply my perspective intended to provide those interested in Christianity with my personal theology and a snapshot of history based on study of the Bible. Some students may disagree with the simplicity, or outright challenge some of my conclusions. Each event presents more questions than answers, yet by careful study of the Bible cover to cover, the serious student will find answers as guided by the Holy Spirit.

http://www.ultimateriddles.com/spirtual-life-in-earth-ages.html

Romans 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth;"

Romans 9:13 "As it is written "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

Now ask youself this question,why did God hate Esau?

 

[Slider]

Pretty good n2thenight! Might be a minor discrepency, but it's pretty close to the way I've seen in the Bible!

 

[Mitspa]

mitsa



Thats not what Rom 8:29 says.

Isa 28:9

Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

It says what it says, not what I make it say

Rom 8:29

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

One must desire the sincere milk, before the Lord will give you the meat.


Sincere (

ἄδολον) is another epithet of the milk

Lit., without guile, unadulterated.

 

[Mitspa]

Question,are you a son of God?

Now let's go to the book of Job.................

Job 38 King James Version1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7When the morning stars sang together, and ALL the sons of God shouted for joy?

There was an age before this one we are in now......

Outline of Spiritual Life History in Bible Study Perspective



1. Spiritual Body and Soul Created by God


2. First Earth Age of Dinosaurs


3. Spiritual Existence on Earth During First Earth Age


4. Spiritual Beings Divided with Two Options
4.a – Satan’s rebellion and one third of angels follow
4.b – Other two thirds of angels follow God


5 First Earth Age Destroyed – Current Universe Created


6. Six Day Creation – All Races Male/Female on 6th Day


7. Adam and Eve – 8th Day and Eons of Time Later


8. Original Sin, Nephilim Irruption, Noah’s Flood


9. Israel in Bondage in Egypt 400 Years


10. Law Given to Moses at Mount Sinai


11. Covenent Broken – Messiah Promised


12. New Covenent with Two Options as Christ the Messiah Born
12.a – Christ rejected by non-believers, crucified, risen, and at right hand of God
12.b – Christ accepted by believers as God in the flesh nailing sin to the cross


13. Tribulation – Satan on Holy Mount Does Miracles – Claims to be Messiah
13.a – Deceived humans worship false Messiah and have “mark of the beastâ€

13.b – Believers reject the false Messiah and witness as Holy Spirit speaks through them


14. Millenium – Christ Returns as True Messiah as ALL Transform to Spiritual Bodies
14.a – Satan bound for 1000 years

14.b – Christ and the elect teach truth to lost souls


15. Satan Loosed for a Season and Immediately Defeated


16. Judgment Day and Beginning of Third Earth Age
16.a – Lost souls cast in lake of fire and soul extinguished never to be remembered
16.b – Believers have life eternal on earth refreshed as new heaven and earth created


17. God Dwells on Earth with Believers, so Earth is Heaven with God Amongst Us


This outline is simply my perspective intended to provide those interested in Christianity with my personal theology and a snapshot of history based on study of the Bible. Some students may disagree with the simplicity, or outright challenge some of my conclusions. Each event presents more questions than answers, yet by careful study of the Bible cover to cover, the serious student will find answers as guided by the Holy Spirit.

http://www.ultimateriddles.com/spirtual-life-in-earth-ages.html

Romans 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth;"

Romans 9:13 "As it is written "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

Now ask youself this question,why did God hate Esau?

Because Jacob was a picture of "grace" Esua "who sold his birthright" a picture of"law".
Rom 9:22


What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Rom 9:23

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

God made His wrath known by the law, He made His mercy known by His grace. The brothers are pictures of the two covenants. I find your theology full of holes and vain human imaginations.

 

[Eventide]

Question,are you a son of God?

Now let's go to the book of Job.................

Job 38 King James Version 1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7When the morning stars sang together, and ALL the sons of God shouted for joy?

There was an age before this one we are in now......

Outline of Spiritual Life History in Bible Study Perspective



1. Spiritual Body and Soul Created by God


2. First Earth Age of Dinosaurs


3. Spiritual Existence on Earth During First Earth Age


4. Spiritual Beings Divided with Two Options
4.a – Satan’s rebellion and one third of angels follow
4.b – Other two thirds of angels follow God


5 First Earth Age Destroyed – Current Universe Created


6. Six Day Creation – All Races Male/Female on 6th Day


7. Adam and Eve – 8th Day and Eons of Time Later


8. Original Sin, Nephilim Irruption, Noah’s Flood


9. Israel in Bondage in Egypt 400 Years


10. Law Given to Moses at Mount Sinai


11. Covenent Broken – Messiah Promised


12. New Covenent with Two Options as Christ the Messiah Born
12.a – Christ rejected by non-believers, crucified, risen, and at right hand of God
12.b – Christ accepted by believers as God in the flesh nailing sin to the cross


13. Tribulation – Satan on Holy Mount Does Miracles – Claims to be Messiah
13.a – Deceived humans worship false Messiah and have “mark of the beastâ€

13.b – Believers reject the false Messiah and witness as Holy Spirit speaks through them


14. Millenium – Christ Returns as True Messiah as ALL Transform to Spiritual Bodies
14.a – Satan bound for 1000 years

14.b – Christ and the elect teach truth to lost souls


15. Satan Loosed for a Season and Immediately Defeated


16. Judgment Day and Beginning of Third Earth Age
16.a – Lost souls cast in lake of fire and soul extinguished never to be remembered
16.b – Believers have life eternal on earth refreshed as new heaven and earth created


17. God Dwells on Earth with Believers, so Earth is Heaven with God Amongst Us


This outline is simply my perspective intended to provide those interested in Christianity with my personal theology and a snapshot of history based on study of the Bible. Some students may disagree with the simplicity, or outright challenge some of my conclusions. Each event presents more questions than answers, yet by careful study of the Bible cover to cover, the serious student will find answers as guided by the Holy Spirit.

http://www.ultimateriddles.com/spirtual-life-in-earth-ages.html

Romans 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth;"

Romans 9:13 "As it is written "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

Now ask youself this question,why did God hate Esau?

The scriptures do NOT teach me (anywhere that I know of) that I EXISTED prior to being born through my parents..
AND even if that we're true.. it doesn't change the fact that ALL IN ADAM are under condemnation..

Do you believe and understand that our nature according to the FLESH is under condemnation and that DEATH has passed upon all men ?

As for Esau.. I think it's obvious.. because he SOLD his birthright to satisfy what..

His FLESH..

 

[savedbygrace57]

rr

javascript:{}

Romans 8:29 is not talking about "individual
people" who were predestined

javascript:{}javascript:{}
What scripture says that ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Isa 28:9



Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10



For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

It says what it says, not what I make it say

Rom 8:29





For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

One must desire the sincere milk, before the Lord will give you the meat.


Sincere (

ἄδολον) is another epithet of the milk

Lit., without guile, unadulterated.

Well with that said, you have failed to make your point with scripture ! I am not taking your word for it !

 

[Mitspa]

Well with that said, you have failed to make your point with scripture ! I am not taking your word for it !

The gospel is for all but its not received by everyone

 

[Mitspa]

Question,are you a son of God?

Now let's go to the book of Job.................

Job 38 King James Version1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7When the morning stars sang together, and ALL the sons of God shouted for joy?

There was an age before this one we are in now......

Outline of Spiritual Life History in Bible Study Perspective



1. Spiritual Body and Soul Created by God


2. First Earth Age of Dinosaurs


3. Spiritual Existence on Earth During First Earth Age


4. Spiritual Beings Divided with Two Options
4.a – Satan’s rebellion and one third of angels follow
4.b – Other two thirds of angels follow God


5 First Earth Age Destroyed – Current Universe Created


6. Six Day Creation – All Races Male/Female on 6th Day


7. Adam and Eve – 8th Day and Eons of Time Later


8. Original Sin, Nephilim Irruption, Noah’s Flood


9. Israel in Bondage in Egypt 400 Years


10. Law Given to Moses at Mount Sinai


11. Covenent Broken – Messiah Promised


12. New Covenent with Two Options as Christ the Messiah Born
12.a – Christ rejected by non-believers, crucified, risen, and at right hand of God
12.b – Christ accepted by believers as God in the flesh nailing sin to the cross


13. Tribulation – Satan on Holy Mount Does Miracles – Claims to be Messiah
13.a – Deceived humans worship false Messiah and have “mark of the beastâ€

13.b – Believers reject the false Messiah and witness as Holy Spirit speaks through them


14. Millenium – Christ Returns as True Messiah as ALL Transform to Spiritual Bodies
14.a – Satan bound for 1000 years

14.b – Christ and the elect teach truth to lost souls


15. Satan Loosed for a Season and Immediately Defeated


16. Judgment Day and Beginning of Third Earth Age
16.a – Lost souls cast in lake of fire and soul extinguished never to be remembered
16.b – Believers have life eternal on earth refreshed as new heaven and earth created


17. God Dwells on Earth with Believers, so Earth is Heaven with God Amongst Us


This outline is simply my perspective intended to provide those interested in Christianity with my personal theology and a snapshot of history based on study of the Bible. Some students may disagree with the simplicity, or outright challenge some of my conclusions. Each event presents more questions than answers, yet by careful study of the Bible cover to cover, the serious student will find answers as guided by the Holy Spirit.

2Ti 4:4

And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. :biglol

 

[savedbygrace57]

The gospel is for all but its not received by everyone

What scripture says that ? And how does this comment solve your first assertion that you never proved ?

 

[Mitspa]

What scripture says that ? And how does this comment solve your first assertion that you never proved ?

Heb 4:2



For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Because you are unwilling to hear the truth! You are too busy trying to teach others, you can not be taught!:o


Heb 5:12



For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13



For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Heb 5:14



But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.