Eugene - Hitch, my apologies, but you have been listening to too many hogwash stories based on man's thinking, and not scripture. Let's examine your own theology as stated in this response.
Hitch - The 'rapture' is presented as an imminent hope, meaning that from the ascension to the rapture there are no prophesied events to take place.
Eugene - You are not establishing truth backed by scripture. Surely you wouldn't have me as those of 1 Thessalonians 4:13, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."
You write the following all based on what you think; could you elaborate, and I do not mean using quotes from the "Left behind" series of books. Thanks.
Hitch - This is a thumbnail of the 'church age doctrine'. The 'rapture' can happen any moment, watch out for falling aircraft etc. But the majority of adherents are lost in a sea of 'signs' and have been for more than a century. Its not possible for an event to be 'signless' and imminent if biblical prophecies are ordained to come to pass in the mean. Many thousands of folks believe the rapture could take place today and believe it could have taken place at any moment over the last two thousand years; Many of these same folks believe the modern state of Israel is the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy. Both cannot be true. So it really is comical to see 'Rapture coming soon, all the signs are here' Bible prophecy in today's headlines!
Eugene said:
1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. It does not appear from this that we will know the exact time.
There are to be indicators lest we be completely unprepared. 1 Thessalonians 5:3-4For when they shall say, Peace and safety, 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness,that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Another is Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Hitch - Its common among futurist to speak of 'that day' or the 'coming of the Lord' as though they were referring to the Second Advent, and sometimes they are, sometimes they mean the 'rapture'. I don't know which you have in mind.
Eugene - What does the bible say of it? I read of a last trump in 1 Corinthians 15:52 suggesting there are other trumps; would you care to establish that all pertain to the same event?
Hitch said:
The very idea of 'signs' is diametrically opposed to imminence. And even a cursory look as the site linked will show nearly every article is concerned with the 'signs' and how sure they are correct, this time. I'm not sure but I don't think there is much if any article there explaining from Scripture why this event is imminent.
I'm not sure we need to explain something of prophesy, but just believe it. Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Hitch said:
An experienced con man will get his victim to accept a conflict, to compromise his intellect and/or ethics. There are no Christian doctrines based on this sort of thing and this nonsense requires a host of compromises. Once you buy in its harder and harder to admit the folly and get out. I would guess most folks reading this have already begun to conjure a way in which they can reconcile their dreams of imminent rapture and unfolding bible prophecy and this is the sad part, no amount of illogic, conflict or distortion is too much, and its always the same folks who claim to be truly inclined to the Spirit; If you were really saved you could see the 'signs too' ' all real Christians can'...
Well Hitch, I don't know if something is nonsense until scripture shows for certain something to be false. I believe you are referring to some accusing you of not being really saved if you do not see things as they do because if you were, and they are so spiritual, you would see things as they do. I do not think that at all, and personally do not care if you do not interpret ends times as I do; our salvation in Christ is not based on that.
Hitch said:
Jesus told us in a parable, but quite clearly, that the good and the evil would exist side by side until the end. There are but two reasons I can figure for this. It brings God more glory and, as stated, it's better for us. Somehow it's better for our eternity that we pass through the historical process as the enemy works his worst. Most of us prefer victory by fiat (rapture, or its kin Millennialism) in opposition to the gradualism Jesus taught, and it costs a great deal. Not the least of which is a poor view of the Person and ministry of the Holy Spirit in history. Our table is set in the presence of our enemy and the enemy will be here so long as the Kingdom continues in history.
When you mention the end I literally take that to be the end of the millennium or 1000 years of peace. To me that includes all among the nations left that will, and will not know our Lord. Satan will be loosed and deceive the wicked nations to compass the camp of the saints, be defeated, wrath and judgment will come to the wicked, and All the righteous from the beginning not already resurrected will be resurrected at this last trump. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Let me leave this off here for the time being and wait to see where you go with it. Thanks Hitch.