farouk
Member
questdriven:
Good post, basically.
(Thinking of your father and family at this time, also.)
Blessings.
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Non-Virgin/Born-Again Virgins Christians intermarrying with Christian Virgins.
questdriven:
Good post, basically.
(Thinking of your father and family at this time, also.)
Blessings.
Pizzaguy
Member
I NEVER MADE ANY STATEMENT SUGGESTING THIS, YOU DID.
It is YOU who assert this to be of utmost importance, not I. I have no answer because I don't see where even Jesus Himself asserted that it "must be this way".
I take you back AGAIN to His remark to the woman at the well.
And we both agree that it is BEST for ALL that only two virgins marry - my position is that it just simply won't always be that way, you, on the other hand, refuse to even address my point.
farouk
Member
Yes, it is very profound. Like you say.
To me that is wrong. We are all equal in Christ. If you really think virginity is the only quality you are looking for in your partner then you will probably find nobody at all.
farouk
Member
bhayes: Yes. A bride may be an unconverted virgin. Or a converted non-virgin. While a virgin — commendably — might have less pyschological history, it's being redeemed and cleansed by faith that counts. Same for husband.
Nicholas,
God's perfect will for us is that both should be virgins. IT avoids the pain that sin brings to us. Someone who has been a theif all his life but is saved, brings a history of bad company and bad habits to overcome. It is easier to for a Christian to marry someone with no baggage, no criminal past, but this is not always God's plan for us. When Peter refused to eat the unclean animals God told him to eat, God said let no man consider to be unclean that which God has declared clean. When we come to Christ God makes us new creatures in Him .
Jesus said he who is forgiven much loves much. A person who deep down knows he is a dirty no good rotton sinner saved by grace in not self righteous and his thankful love toward God is greater as well as his humble love toward other Christians.
God has removed the sin of every born again Christian and declaired him clean. HE has also removed the sin of every repentant sinner and promised to cleanse him from all unrighteosness. IN God's eyes they are clean and we can marry them. IT just means that they have much to overcome. SAtan's accusations cause a lot of guilt from the past, and since they are half truths we often don't recognize them for what they are.
SOme people have bad habits they struggle with for much of their lives. Smoking, pornography, bad language are habits that are difficult for some people to overcome. IT is better to marry someone without bad habits but we all come with baggage. Those of us raised in Christian homes and with few bad habits are tempted to be self-righteous and condemning toward those who struggle with bad habits, no realizing that their intollarant attitudes are often far worse in God's eyes.
So yes, if you are a virgin it is best to seek another virgin to marry, but there is nothing in the New Testament that says we should do this. WE live under grace and are told only to marry other believers in Christ. We do not longer live under old testament law. I know your pastor means well. HE has counseled many marriages and wants to spare you pain. But the reality is that the only requirement is that we marry only other unmarried Christian.
Our sons married girls who were saved after sinning with other men. One girl had a child by someone else and this has created division among their children. Our son was also made to to feel like he wasn't her real dad even though he raised her from a toddler, solely supported her and adopted her. It really hurts him. Our other son married someone who had an abortion before she was saved. In fact, this is what God used to convict her of sin and lead her to Himself. But she still grieves the loss of this child. Both of these girls are beautiful Christians who really love the Lord and who are raising their children to love and serve God.
So I do hope you avoid fornication yourself. It is still sin to have sex outside of marriage. It is right to keep yourself for your bride and avoid the guilt and misery of sin.
God's perfect will for us is that both should be virgins. IT avoids the pain that sin brings to us. Someone who has been a theif all his life but is saved, brings a history of bad company and bad habits to overcome. It is easier to for a Christian to marry someone with no baggage, no criminal past, but this is not always God's plan for us. When Peter refused to eat the unclean animals God told him to eat, God said let no man consider to be unclean that which God has declared clean. When we come to Christ God makes us new creatures in Him .
Jesus said he who is forgiven much loves much. A person who deep down knows he is a dirty no good rotton sinner saved by grace in not self righteous and his thankful love toward God is greater as well as his humble love toward other Christians.
God has removed the sin of every born again Christian and declaired him clean. HE has also removed the sin of every repentant sinner and promised to cleanse him from all unrighteosness. IN God's eyes they are clean and we can marry them. IT just means that they have much to overcome. SAtan's accusations cause a lot of guilt from the past, and since they are half truths we often don't recognize them for what they are.
SOme people have bad habits they struggle with for much of their lives. Smoking, pornography, bad language are habits that are difficult for some people to overcome. IT is better to marry someone without bad habits but we all come with baggage. Those of us raised in Christian homes and with few bad habits are tempted to be self-righteous and condemning toward those who struggle with bad habits, no realizing that their intollarant attitudes are often far worse in God's eyes.
So yes, if you are a virgin it is best to seek another virgin to marry, but there is nothing in the New Testament that says we should do this. WE live under grace and are told only to marry other believers in Christ. We do not longer live under old testament law. I know your pastor means well. HE has counseled many marriages and wants to spare you pain. But the reality is that the only requirement is that we marry only other unmarried Christian.
Our sons married girls who were saved after sinning with other men. One girl had a child by someone else and this has created division among their children. Our son was also made to to feel like he wasn't her real dad even though he raised her from a toddler, solely supported her and adopted her. It really hurts him. Our other son married someone who had an abortion before she was saved. In fact, this is what God used to convict her of sin and lead her to Himself. But she still grieves the loss of this child. Both of these girls are beautiful Christians who really love the Lord and who are raising their children to love and serve God.
So I do hope you avoid fornication yourself. It is still sin to have sex outside of marriage. It is right to keep yourself for your bride and avoid the guilt and misery of sin.
Gordon
Member
This was an interesting thread. I don't disagree with you as strongly as some people did. I don't think being a virgin or not doesn't have meaning. Or that never having sex is something God will not honor. I think the gift you have of being asexual has caused you to become judgmental about this. Someone with the gift of humility could judge people who boast. Someone slow to anger could judge people with a rage problem. It's different wanting to marry another virgin than calling non-virgins thieves. What label would fit you? It kind of reminds me of the people fasting and then making a show of it. I'd be careful about thinking highly of yourself for your faithfulness sexually or judging others about it. You might lose your reward for it.
farouk
Member
gordon:
It's undeniable that from the Bible it's damaging spiritually to lose it.
But the Gospel lies in the restored communion with God by faith in Christ, which by His grace is far, far better than anything an unconverted person (even a virgin) could have.
Gordon
Member
Hi farouk,
I agree with you. I don't think he'd be wrong to want a virgin to the point it was a big deal to him. I just don't think the emphasis on being God's best choice and the non-virgin thieves stuff is the Christian way to view it. Seems like taking something special and turning it into judging people.
I agree with you. I don't think he'd be wrong to want a virgin to the point it was a big deal to him. I just don't think the emphasis on being God's best choice and the non-virgin thieves stuff is the Christian way to view it. Seems like taking something special and turning it into judging people.
farouk
Member
G: I guess the whole point is that if God has cancelled the power and penalty of sin, because of faith in the work of Christ, then whoever was previously a thief, etc. is no longer regarded by Him as such. And so we should not, either.
Pizzaguy
Member
We should have a "like" button here!
abide
Member
I'm just curious on what people on here think about this kind of subject. 1 day my Pastor was talking about that God wants the best for each and everyone one of His Children. When we are patient and obedient he will give us the best and if we aren't patient and obedient we will not receive the best, but 2nd best, 3rd best, or nothing good at all.. depending on how patient and obedient you are.
I thought about this. I've seen Christians who talk and use the title Born-again Virgin and I don't agree with it and I consider it very insulting, because I am a 23yr Virgin and struggled to keep it until marriage(but nowadays I want to stay a virgin for the rest of my life). Ever since I was baptized the Lord Jesus Christ has made me Non-Sexual. The Lord Jesus Christ has other plans for me, which do not involve getting married and having children.
It has come to my knowledge that some Christians that are Non-Virgins intermarry with Virgins. I am against it for a few reasons.
1: Christian Virgins have been waiting for the best God is going to give them if they remain patient and the Non-Virgins or Born again Virgins haven't been patient and to me are consider 2nd best for these Christian Virgins. I am not trying to degrade Non-Virgins saying they are second best. However I Am trying to say that the best for a Christian Virgin is someone who also has been waiting all their life and saved their Virginity.
2: A Christian Non-Virgin or Born-again Virgin cannot consider themselves to be as Chaste/Celibate as a Christian Virgin. These Virgins have been waiting patiently for God's Best all their life and have not had sexual contact. Non-Virgins or Born-again Virgin have not been waiting patiently for God's best for all their life and have had sexual contact. you cannot compare all life to 1 month-however long. There is nothing fair or equal about Virgins intermarrying with Non-Virgins.
"The LORD abhors dishonest scales, but accurate weights are his delight."
- Proverbs 11:1
3: The Christian Non-Virgin or Born-again Virgin is Depriving the Christian Virgin of the Best God is willing to give them if they continue to seek to intermarry with Virgins.
Some Christians who were Virgins that intermarried with Non-Virgins or Born-again Virgins say that oh well I love my Husband or Wife and consider them to be the best God has given me. I have a question for you, how do you know that's God's Best for you and not The second Best? sometimes the Second best thing or person usually seems like the Best but its not and it never will be and you will never know God's best for you because you weren't patient enough.
My Pastor made it clear, We as people usually choose the Second best thing or person, you know why? because we lack patience and expect things to be on our time and not God's time. I see nothing Christlike about that at all.
Let The the Discussion begin!
You have to be careful not to ADD things to the bible. There is no such thing as a born again virgin.. If you decide to remain a virgin for life...that is your choice but please do not try to make the bible say things that it does not say.
Remember this Revelation 22: 18
"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book."
This is referring to the book of Revelation but this principle is clear..DO NOT ADD OR TAKE AWAY...our ways are not God;s neither are his thoughts ours.
abide
Member
I asked you not to participate dear friend, because you did not know what this discussion is about and couldn't contribute to it. When you do come to understanding and can contribute to the discussion, please I urge you to come back.
You seem to be taking pride in the fact that you are a virgin...Christ came to save sinners...despite the fact that you are a virgin you are a SINNER. Humility is a thing to cultivate...but God hates pride.
"Again, pride is the maddest thing that can exist; it feeds upon its own vitals; it will take away its own life, that with its blood may make a purple for its shoulders: it sappeth, and undermineth its own house that it may build its pinnacles a little higher, and then the whole structure tumbleth down. Nothing proves men so made as pride. For this they have given up rest, and ease, and repose, to find rank and power among men: for this they have dared to risk their hope of salvation, to leave the gentle yoke of Jesus, and go toiling wearily along the way of life, seeking to save themselves by their own works, and at last to stagger into the mire of fell despair. Oh! man, hate pride, flee from it, abhor it, let it not dwell with thee. If thou wantest to have a madman in thy heart, embrace pride, for thou shalt never find one more mad than he."
C.H. Spurgeon
http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0097.htm
abide
Member
