When did the Law pass or has it passed away?

[JLB]

This same thought applies to the Law of God,

The Law of God is for all to keep, and was clearly in effect in the Garden of Eden.

Abraham walked with God and was taught of God as it was intended from the beginning.

The law of Moses is a complete law that can not be dissected into which we will and will not keep. The law of Moses has vanished away.

The law of God that was, is and forever will be,is intact and is what remains.

The Law of God is seen in the 10 commandments but is certainly not limited to the 10 commandments.

God's Law is also what He tells you to do directly, such as -

"Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house, To a land that I will show you.

or -

"Arise and go to the street called Straight,

or

Go to the house of Cornelius...

or even a more infamous one -

"Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat,

These commandments are far more important and weighty than, keep the sabbath.

For some reason though, I don't hear to much about these commandments from those who seem to think the law of Moses is to be kept today.

I can go on about the Sabbath and what it does for us as well as many other laws, but it's pointless if someone is convinced that they are not obligated to keep the Law.

The Sabbath is for man to rest. Man needs a day of rest.

However, the Sabbath that was required in the law of Moses, with all the stipulations such as do not kindle a fire, is obsolete and has vanished away.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The law of Moses is a complete law that can not be dissected into which we will and will not keep.

...Only in regard to the attempt to be justified by the law of Moses. But it's clear from the NT that some things remain as literal obligations of law in this New Covenant, while others don't.

The law of Moses has vanished away.
JLB[/B]

What the Bible teaches is that the earthly temple, priesthood, sacrifice, and the method and timetable for worship in those earthly things has 'passed away'. But it's made perfectly clear that the laws governing how we treat one another have not 'passed away' but are actually kept, not abolished, through faith in Christ.

We see this probably the most clearly in James' letter where he teaches the requirements of the law of Moses to care for widows and orphans (Deuteronomy 14:28-29, 10:18), and the needy (Deuteronomy 15:7-8, 11), and to show no favoritism to the rich (Leviticus 19:15), and to keep oneself unpolluted from the world (Deuteronomy 12:31 NASB for example).

Faith upholds the Law of Moses, not destroys it. Even the 'passed away' things are upheld by faith in Christ, not according to the letter of the law, but according to the revelation of the true Temple, and Priesthood, and Sacrifice, and worship cycle. Hebrews 4 speaks of our faith fulfilling, not abolishing the requirement for Sabbath rest (the real Sabbath rest). And Hebrews 10 speaks of our faith fulfilling, not abolishing, the requirement for a Day of Atonement. 1 Corinthians 5 speaks of our faith fulfilling, not abolishing the requirement for Passover. Romans 2 speaks of the law of circumcision being upheld, not abolished, by faith in Christ.

And because our faith fulfills these and other worship requirements the shadows can be laid aside in favor of the reality--not the requirements themselves, but the letter of the law keeping of those things, which had no power to do what they sought to do. These requirements have been satisfied, not abolished, so we can then uphold that which does remain as an ongoing obligation of obedience in the law of Moses, 'love your neighbor as yourself' (Leviticus 19:18 NASB) and all the laws of Moses that are summed up by that law ('do not steal', 'don't muzzle the ox', etc.).

The requirements of the law of Moses did not 'pass away'. They are fulfilled (satisfied) through the new way of faith in Christ. What 'passed away' was the old stipulations for temple, priesthood, sacrifice, and worship cycle of the law of Moses. But it's clear that the requirements themselves for Temple, Priesthood, Sacrifice, circumcision, and Festival worship do in fact continue as requirements of God in this New Covenant--just satisfied in the new way of faith in Christ (Romans 7:6). No abolishment of law here. Jesus plainly said he did not come to do that, "but to fulfill" (Matthew 5:17 NASB). Faith in Christ is the fulfillment of the law of Moses (temple, preisthood, sacrifice, circumcision, Sabbath rest, Passover, etc.), not the abolishment of that law.

 

[Sparkey]

Sometimes threads are "visited" by Moderators because they see a need for a General Warnking

And not seeing any comment from them is like, "No news is good news." But why is that? How about good news is good news. Of course I've been keeping an eye on this thread. Looking for this opportunity. An opportunity for praise.

Thank you, each one, for the effort that is made here. It's no small thing in my sight and I very much appreciate! What did the Lord say about how many sparrows? There is nothing that you may do for Him that He does not notice and if I noticed your effort, God surely does.

Sparhawk
Moderator (and a member of your Staff)

 

[JLB]

You keep misquoting these verses and attributing them to the Law of God. Paul was dealing with Ascetism in the church of Colossae, hence the wording...

Here are some phrases in Colossians 2 that lead me to believe otherwise -

11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

Paul dealing with "Circumcision".

12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Paul encouraging them that they are dead to the law.

14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

A reference to the law.


16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,

A further reference to the law.

Paul is encouraging these believers as well as teaching us of the freedom and liberty we have as we walk after the Spirit, and not the oldness of the letter.

For who the Son sets free is free indeed.


JLB

What the Bible teaches is that the earthly temple, priesthood, sacrifice, and the method and timetable for worship in those earthly things has 'passed away'. But it's made perfectly clear that the laws governing how we treat one another have not 'passed away' but are actually kept, not abolished, through faith in Christ.

Please help me to understand where you are coming from by sharing the scriptures you are referring to.


JLB

 

[Joe Domingo]

This has always been the quick and easy way for me to settle the Law issue with any and all persons claiming to follow Christ.

I ask the following questions.... be ready to be entertained lol

1. Can I worship other god's? Answer; NO
2. Can I worship idols? Answer: NO
3. Can I curse God? Answer: NO
4. Can I disrespect my parents? Answer: NO
5. Can I murder you? Answer: NO (This question works best on someone you don't like) lol
6. Can I have your wife? Answer: NO (warning, this question can start a fight) lol
7. Can I take your Flat Screen TV: Answer: NO (don't expect to be invited to dinner next time) lol
8. Can I lie to the police and say you did it? Answer: NO (this can get you beaten in the Bronx) lol
9. Are you ok with me lusting after everything you own? Answer: NO

Now so far, everybody on this board is ok with where this is going I'm certain. As you can see this covers 9 of the ten commandments and most Christians I know are happy and proud to say they follow these commandments because they Love Jesus.

But wait! LOL

There's ONE more!

What about ...

Can I work on the Sabbath? Answer: YES


LOL

James 2nd chapter verses 10,11,12

Ye hypocrites LOL And I say that most lovingly and jokingly.

But seriously, many verses where Jesus says to obey and do all ten commandments, many of you know these verses. Even the apostolic writings say the same.

But when it comes to the Sabbath - oh, now I am "under the law". trying to get saved by "works". List goes on and on.

Christianity and Christians - you gotta love em. lol

 

[Deborah13]

The law of Moses is a complete law that can not be dissected into which we will and will not keep. The law of Moses has vanished away.

I agree, the Law of Moses, the Old Covenant (the old Contract) has been utterly and completely annulled, made void, and of no effect. This is how I see it, not perfectly for sure.

It could not be only partially annulled. The old contract was written as clauses if you will. "If" statements of, "do good, get good", "do bad, get bad". Therefore, if the ordinances (the get bads) were nailed to the cross the "do bads" were annulled, as well, that part of the contract no longer had any effect. The same is true of the reverse clauses of as we don't receive the "get goods" in the same way as under the old contract.
So there had to be a new covenant (new contract) which was made with our Savior as the Seed of Abraham.

Every contract has at least two signers. The old contract was made with the Hebrew children when they agreed, "whatever the Lord says, we will do" (para). Natural man signing a contract with a Holy God. So only a natural man could perfectly fulfill the contract. Jesus comes on the scene as an natural man in order to fulfill the contract and He did. He led a perfect life and died a perfect death in the shedding of His blood.

The new contract was made with the Holy Seed and a Holy God. We did not sign that contract, if we had it would no longer be perfectly Holy. He is obligated to see that the contract is fulfilled, not us. We sign on as servants of the Holy One. We have agreed to follow Him. He gives us two commands, Love God, Love your neighbor as us love yourself. As we surrender and obey He fulfills the new contract through us. For as we forgive others we give the same mercy and grace that He is working through us and we have received. He provides everything to get the job done.
We don't buy the things that are needed to complete the job and fulfill the contract for Him.

 

[George Muller]

Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Yes it seems some are not sure what they are trying to teach or affirm?

Ro 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

 

[JLB]

The law of Moses is a complete law that can not be dissected into which we will and will not keep. The law of Moses has vanished away.

I agree, the Law of Moses, the Old Covenant (the old Contract) has been utterly and completely annulled, made void, and of no effect. This is how I see it, not perfectly for sure.

It could not be only partially annulled. The old contract was written as clauses if you will. "If" statements of, "do good, get good", "do bad, get bad". Therefore, if the ordinances (the get bads) were nailed to the cross the "do bads" were annulled, as well, that part of the contract no longer had any effect. The same is true of the reverse clauses of as we don't receive the "get goods" in the same way as under the old contract.
So there had to be a new covenant (new contract) which was made with our Savior as the Seed of Abraham.

Every contract has at least two signers. The old contract was made with the Hebrew children when they agreed, "whatever the Lord says, we will do" (para). Natural man signing a contract with a Holy God. So only a natural man could perfectly fulfill the contract. Jesus comes on the scene as an natural man in order to fulfill the contract and He did. He led a perfect life and died a perfect death in the shedding of His blood.

The new contract was made with the Holy Seed and a Holy God. We did not sign that contract, if we had it would no longer be perfectly Holy. He is obligated to see that the contract is fulfilled, not us. We sign on as servants of the Holy One. We have agreed to follow Him. He gives us two commands, Love God, Love your neighbor as us love yourself. As we surrender and obey He fulfills the new contract through us. For as we forgive others we give the same mercy and grace that He is working through us and we have received. He provides everything to get the job done.
We don't buy the things that are needed to complete the job and fulfill the contract for Him.

Thats very insightful!

We find that you seem to be echoing the very idea the Lord says through Jeremiah -

not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. Jeremiah 31:32


JLB

 

[Elijah674]

The subject title says it all. I have had different answers to this question from people I know. What does this forum think?

When did the Law pass or is it still operating? And if it still is in effect, shouldn't we be obeying all the "jots and tittles" of it?

I don't think it is a simple question to answer...

Simple???
Christ says just the opposite... ('me' thinks)
[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.

[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matt.22:38-40 (and do not miss hang all law and the PROPHETS!)

And no, I am no 'tempting' lawyer. But the Lord answered the question FROM THE START!;) (check out Eccl. 1:9-10 and even Matt. 25 verse one, just the first part of this 'Parable') And what does the START mean? Check out Eze. 28:12-19

--Elijah

 

[JLB]

many verses where Jesus says to obey and do all ten commandments,

Where do you find that in scripture?

Thanks for sharing. JLB

 

[George Muller]

The law of Moses is a complete law that can not be dissected into which we will and will not keep. The law of Moses has vanished away.

I agree, the Law of Moses, the Old Covenant (the old Contract) has been utterly and completely annulled, made void, and of no effect. This is how I see it, not perfectly for sure.

It could not be only partially annulled. The old contract was written as clauses if you will. "If" statements of, "do good, get good", "do bad, get bad". Therefore, if the ordinances (the get bads) were nailed to the cross the "do bads" were annulled, as well, that part of the contract no longer had any effect. The same is true of the reverse clauses of as we don't receive the "get goods" in the same way as under the old contract.
So there had to be a new covenant (new contract) which was made with our Savior as the Seed of Abraham.

Every contract has at least two signers. The old contract was made with the Hebrew children when they agreed, "whatever the Lord says, we will do" (para). Natural man signing a contract with a Holy God. So only a natural man could perfectly fulfill the contract. Jesus comes on the scene as an natural man in order to fulfill the contract and He did. He led a perfect life and died a perfect death in the shedding of His blood.

The new contract was made with the Holy Seed and a Holy God. We did not sign that contract, if we had it would no longer be perfectly Holy. He is obligated to see that the contract is fulfilled, not us. We sign on as servants of the Holy One. We have agreed to follow Him. He gives us two commands, Love God, Love your neighbor as us love yourself. As we surrender and obey He fulfills the new contract through us. For as we forgive others we give the same mercy and grace that He is working through us and we have received. He provides everything to get the job done.
We don't buy the things that are needed to complete the job and fulfill the contract for Him.

Thats very insightful!

We find that you seem to be echoing the very idea the Lord says through Jeremiah -

not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. Jeremiah 31:32


JLB

2Co 3:6 ¶ Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 ¶ Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord

This issue is very clear, it is the "natural mind" of man that cannot accept what is written.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Joe Domingo]

many verses where Jesus says to obey and do all ten commandments,

Where do you find that in scripture?

Thanks for sharing. JLB

[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.

[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matt.22:38-40 (and do not miss hang all law and the PROPHETS!)

[...]A summary abbreviates a fuller explanation, but it by no means nullifies the FULL explanation.

When Jesus abbreviated the Ten Commandments in Matthew 22:38-40, he did not nullify any of them.

If JLB is the abbreviated from of your full name, does calling you JLB make you any lesser than what your are?

 

[George Muller]

Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[JLB]

This issue is very clear, it is the "natural mind" of man that cannot accept what is written. 1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I see a very clear and distinct difference between what is written and the things of the Spirit of God which are spiritually discerned as opposed to physically read.


JLB

 

[JLB]

many verses where Jesus says to obey and do all ten commandments,

Where do you find that in scripture?

Thanks for sharing. JLB

[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.

[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matt.22:38-40 (and do not miss hang all law and the PROPHETS!)

[...] A summary abbreviates a fuller explanation, but it by no means nullifies the FULL explanation.

When Jesus abbreviated the Ten Commandments in Matthew 22:38-40, he did not nullify any of them.

If JLB is the abbreviated from of your full name, does calling you JLB make you any lesser than what your are?

Could you please give the scripture where Jesus says to obey and do all 10 commandments.

Thanks JLB

 

[George Muller]

This issue is very clear, it is the "natural mind" of man that cannot accept what is written. 1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I see a very clear and distinct difference between what is written and the things of the Spirit of God which are spiritually discerned as opposed to physically read.


JLB

yes the "letter" (which places a demand upon the flesh for righteousness) kills. The Spirit (which empowers Gods righteousness to work through us) gives life.
Ro 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[Deborah13]

(and do not miss hang all law and the PROPHETS!)

Well, all I can say about this is that I do not obey the Law of Moses (old covenant) every way I could.

I do not give in tithes, alms, free will offering, first fruits, etc. as the Law of Moses specifies which works out to about 20-23 1/3% of gross income.
Giving in faith that the Lord will provide over and above this so that I can buy the necessities of food, shelter, etc.

And so I break the Law of Moses. I know from statistics given by churches that most people do not give anywhere near this amount.

In just this one law, within the law, do you see a difference as to how giving is instructed in the new covenant?

 

[JLB]

This issue is very clear, it is the "natural mind" of man that cannot accept what is written. 1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I see a very clear and distinct difference between what is written and the things of the Spirit of God which are spiritually discerned as opposed to physically read.


JLB

yes the "letter" (which places a demand upon the flesh for righteousness) kills. The Spirit (which empowers Gods righteousness to work through us) gives life.
Ro 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Let me rephrase what I said.

1 Corinthians 2:14 has little or nothing to do with "what is read", but rather what is given or imparted or revealed or spoken by the Spirit to a person.

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


JLB

 

[George Muller]

This issue is very clear, it is the "natural mind" of man that cannot accept what is written. 1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I see a very clear and distinct difference between what is written and the things of the Spirit of God which are spiritually discerned as opposed to physically read.


JLB

yes the "letter" (which places a demand upon the flesh for righteousness) kills. The Spirit (which empowers Gods righteousness to work through us) gives life.
Ro 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Let me rephrase what I said.

1 Corinthians 2:14 has little or nothing to do with "what is read", but rather what is given or imparted or revealed or spoken by the Spirit to a person.

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


JLB

Not sure of your point?
What is the "letter" if it is not "what is read"

 

[JLB]

yes the "letter" (which places a demand upon the flesh for righteousness) kills. The Spirit (which empowers Gods righteousness to work through us) gives life.
Ro 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Let me rephrase what I said.

1 Corinthians 2:14 has little or nothing to do with "what is read", but rather what is given or imparted or revealed or spoken by the Spirit to a person.

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


JLB

Not sure of your point?
What is the "letter" if it is not "what is read"

That is the point, 1 Corinthians 2:14 is not referring to what is written. It is referring to the things of the Spirit.

Please understand that alot of these Greek folks could not read, much less read Hebrew.

The things of The Spirit is not a reference to the law of Moses.


JLB