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The CURSE OF THE LAW

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Well I guess I think you have "bugs" also? The points I have made are very clear and very evident. The written code of the law, is carnal. Those who look to the letter are held in bondage to sin, and are cursed by the written code.

Those who walk in the Spirit, walk free from the written code of the law. They are blessed and bear fruit unto God.

THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.
 
Well I guess I think you have "bugs" also? The points I have made are very clear and very evident. The written code of the law, is carnal. Those who look to the letter are held in bondage to sin, and are cursed by the written code.

Those who walk in the Spirit, walk free from the written code of the law. They are blessed and bear fruit unto God.

THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

I did not kill anyone yesterday. I obeyed the letter of the Law (6th Commandment). I am cursed?
 
The written code of the law, is carnal. Those who look to the letter are held in bondage to sin, and are cursed by the written code.

Those who walk in the Spirit, walk free from the written code of the law. They are blessed and bear fruit unto God.

THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.
Then why did Paul put the Christians at Corinth under this bondage, this curse, this death sentence of the law by making them, as you say, look to the law?

"9 ...do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-10 NASB)


And here we have James putting his audience under the bondage, curse, and death sentence of the law:

"27 Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress (Deuteronomy 14:28-29, Jeremiah 22:16), and to keep oneself unstained by the world." (James 1: NASB)
 
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Well I guess I think you have "bugs" also? The points I have made are very clear and very evident. The written code of the law, is carnal. Those who look to the letter are held in bondage to sin, and are cursed by the written code.

Those who walk in the Spirit, walk free from the written code of the law. They are blessed and bear fruit unto God.

THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

I did not kill anyone yesterday. I obeyed the letter of the Law (6th Commandment). I am cursed?
Somewhere along the line the curse of the law went from NOT keeping the Commandments to KEEPING them.
 
Well I guess I think you have "bugs" also? The points I have made are very clear and very evident. The written code of the law, is carnal. Those who look to the letter are held in bondage to sin, and are cursed by the written code.

Those who walk in the Spirit, walk free from the written code of the law. They are blessed and bear fruit unto God.

THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

I did not kill anyone yesterday. I obeyed the letter of the Law (6th Commandment). I am cursed?
Somewhere along the line the curse of the law went from NOT keeping the Commandments to KEEPING them.

I'm telling you going to have to get another quarter.
 
Well I guess I think you have "bugs" also? The points I have made are very clear and very evident. The written code of the law, is carnal. Those who look to the letter are held in bondage to sin, and are cursed by the written code.

Those who walk in the Spirit, walk free from the written code of the law. They are blessed and bear fruit unto God.

THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

Do you see what I mean about definitions??? It is causing confusion. If you want to teach people, you have to do a better job of explaining what you mean.

Paul utilizes the term "flesh" in two different ways. I will go to Galatians for both:

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, Idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects, Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Gal 5:19-21 DRA

Here, the flesh is not about following the Law. As you can see, the works of the flesh is in OPPOSITION to the Law!!!

Thou shall not murder does not "kill". It is not carnal. Those who are "in the flesh" are those who disobey the commandments. Those who walk in the Spirit obey "thou shall not kill".

Stupid Galatians...Are you so foolish, that, whereas you began in the Spirit, you would now be made perfect by the flesh? Gal 3:1,3 DRA

"Flesh" cannot have the same meaning as above. How is one made perfect by committing murder, stealing and adultery? Who would take such a meaning? There is NO WAY that Paul is advocating "made perfect by the flesh" as breaking the commandments of God. Here, the context of "flesh" refers to the performing works of the law (v 2) - the pinnacle being circumcision, which Paul speaks about in Galatians with some irony. Being circumcised = becoming a Jew. Upholding the Mosaic Law.

Paul is stating here: "Why become subject to the Mosaic Law, when it was an onerous set of rules and regulations that were a dividing wall between Jew and Gentile and did NOT make people righteous???" Fools, he calls them.

If I might suggest something? Your analysis of "cursed by the written code" is not entirely accurate:

When Paul talks about being cursed by the written code, he is talking about becoming a Jew, being circumcised and upholding the dictates of the Mosaic Law (and THERE is the curse, since death awaits those who are under the law and do not obey it) VERSUS following God through faith in Jesus Christ (who BECAME a curse by accepting what we deserve). Why be subject to the curse again, when Christ died for our sake?

If one confuses the terms Paul uses - "flesh", it becomes easy to see why many Christians take some umbrage to the interpretation that the Decalogue ITSELF is somehow evil and "of the flesh"...

The just obey God's commandments. NOT because they bring man justification. THAT is the difference that you are glossing over and having a difficult time with. A person can and does obey God's commandments out of love, being led by the Spirit. We don't obey the commandments because they would earn us salvation - we do it out of love and are utterly dependent upon the Spirit of God to lead us to do His Will.

Think about it. Following "Thou shall not kill" is NOT a cause for a curse. This is a commandment from the finger of God. Is God a liar or a trickster, Mitspa? No. The Law is holy, but we obey that dictate because it is part of the Eternal Law from God, part of the Law written on hearts all the way back to Adam, NOT because it is part of the Mosaic Law. The Mosaic Law has no power over Gentiles.

Regards
 
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Well I guess I think you have "bugs" also? The points I have made are very clear and very evident. The written code of the law, is carnal. Those who look to the letter are held in bondage to sin, and are cursed by the written code.

Those who walk in the Spirit, walk free from the written code of the law. They are blessed and bear fruit unto God.

THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

I did not kill anyone yesterday. I obeyed the letter of the Law (6th Commandment). I am cursed?

Yes If you think you have kept the law of moses, by not killing someone.

Do have anger of bitterness, hatred in your heart? maybe you did not do as well as you think?
For only when we love with Gods love do we fulfill the law.
 
Well I guess I think you have "bugs" also? The points I have made are very clear and very evident. The written code of the law, is carnal. Those who look to the letter are held in bondage to sin, and are cursed by the written code.

Those who walk in the Spirit, walk free from the written code of the law. They are blessed and bear fruit unto God.

THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

I did not kill anyone yesterday. I obeyed the letter of the Law (6th Commandment). I am cursed?
Somewhere along the line the curse of the law went from NOT keeping the Commandments to KEEPING them.

Which one of you are claiming to keep the written code of the law? None of you!
Thats why one must be set free from the law of sin and death and walk in the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

For the strength of sin, is the law.
The law is not of faith.
All those who are under the law are under its curse.
 
Somewhere along the line the curse of the law went from NOT keeping the Commandments to KEEPING them.

Which one of you are claiming to keep the written code of the law? None of you!
For the purpose of being justified? Right. None of us. Because nobody here is saying that's what the law is for, but for some reason that's all you can hear. What's going on inside of you that you can't 'hear' what we're saying?????

But we do keep the law WHEN we walk in the Spirit. And when we don't walk in the Spirit, violating the law of Moses, we have Jesus' sacrifice that we rely on and that speaks on our behalf. No curse of the law here, Mitspa. For someone who is sure they are a gospel messenger sent from God you don't seem to understand the gospel very well at all.



For the strength of sin, is the law.
...Only true for those who don't have the Spirit of God to enable them to keep God's requirements, or for those who don't rely on the Spirit they do have to obey God and who instead rely on knowledge of the law alone to keep the law.



The law is not of faith.
Right, the WAY of law is not the same as the WAY of faith.

The WAY of faith does in fact uphold and keep the moral law of Moses. Until you understand that the curse is connected to the WAY of being justified and serving God through law alone--because it's impossible to keep the law that way--the doctrine you teach will continue to bear false witness to the truth.



All those who are under the law are under its curse.
Only unbelievers are under the curse of the law, because they can't keep the law. NOT KEEPING THE LAW brings the curse. And they don't have faith in Christ's sacrifice to have their law breaking forgiven. That's why THEY are under the law, not believers justified through trusting in the blood of Christ.

Seeking to uphold the requirements of the law through faith is NOT being 'under the law'. You are the victim of the church's erroneous indoctrination about the role of law in the New Covenant.
 
The curse of the Law is the penalty it imposes, that is what Christ has freed us from...

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The Law itself is not a curse, it defines sin. When we sin we are under the curse. Christ was hung on the stake in our behalf.
 
Well I guess I think you have "bugs" also? The points I have made are very clear and very evident. The written code of the law, is carnal. Those who look to the letter are held in bondage to sin, and are cursed by the written code.

Those who walk in the Spirit, walk free from the written code of the law. They are blessed and bear fruit unto God.

THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

I did not kill anyone yesterday. I obeyed the letter of the Law (6th Commandment). I am cursed?

Yes If you think you have kept the law of moses, by not killing someone.

Do have anger of bitterness, hatred in your heart? maybe you did not do as well as you think?
For only when we love with Gods love do we fulfill the law.

You know this very point is made so clear in scripture? That if one keeps any part of the law, they must keep it all.
Many people can say "i did not murder" but they have commited adultry and covetousness, etc... No one Must do ALL THAT IS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO KEEP THE LAW.
now the fact that no man can be justified by the deeds of the law, is evident.
Those who attempt to be justified by the law, are under the curse of the law.
 
The curse of the Law is the penalty it imposes, that is what Christ has freed us from...

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The Law itself is not a curse, it defines sin. When we sin we are under the curse. Christ was hung on the stake in our behalf.

Its always good to include the whole context of a scripture.
Gal 3:10-12
cursed is everyone that continues not IN ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW TO DO THEM.
:11 but that NO MAN IS JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW, in the sight of God is EVIDENT.
And THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH!

it dont get no clearer than these scriptures.

"did God really say, not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil"

As satan decieved eve, your minds are blinded from the simplicity of Christ.

FOR NOTHING PROFITS ANYTHING BUT FAITH WORKING BY LOVE!
 
Its always good to include the whole context of a scripture.
Gal 3:10-12
cursed is everyone that continues not IN ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW TO DO THEM.
:11 but that NO MAN IS JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW, in the sight of God is EVIDENT.
And THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH!

it dont get no clearer than these scriptures.

On the contrary, I find Galatians 3:10-12 to be very unclear.
 
Its always good to include the whole context of a scripture.
Gal 3:10-12
cursed is everyone that continues not IN ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW TO DO THEM.
:11 but that NO MAN IS JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW, in the sight of God is EVIDENT.
And THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH!

it dont get no clearer than these scriptures.

On the contrary, I find Galatians 3:10-12 to be very unclear.

Well Paul says it is EVIDENT! so it is.
2 Cor 3:13-15
2 Cor 4:4
Maybe this is the problem?

The curse of the law is blindness to the gospel.
 
Those who attempt to be justified by the law, are under the curse of the law.
Well, since no one in this thread is doing that there's nothing left to talk about here.

Maybe someone will come along who is doing that and you can have a discussion with them.
 
For the purpose of being justified? Right. None of us. Because nobody here is saying that's what the law is for, but for some reason that's all you can hear. What's going on inside of you that you can't 'hear' what we're saying?????

But we do keep the law WHEN we walk in the Spirit. And when we don't walk in the Spirit, violating the law of Moses, we have Jesus' sacrifice that we rely on and that speaks on our behalf. No curse of the law here, Mitspa. For someone who is sure they are a gospel messenger sent from God you don't seem to understand the gospel very well at all.




...Only true for those who don't have the Spirit of God to enable them to keep God's requirements, or for those who don't rely on the Spirit they do have to obey God and who instead rely on knowledge of the law alone to keep the law.



The law is not of faith.
Right, the WAY of law is not the same as the WAY of faith.

The WAY of faith does in fact uphold and keep the moral law of Moses. Until you understand that the curse is connected to the WAY of being justified and serving God through law alone--because it's impossible to keep the law that way--the doctrine you teach will continue to bear false witness to the truth.



All those who are under the law are under its curse.
Only unbelievers are under the curse of the law, because they can't keep the law. NOT KEEPING THE LAW brings the curse. And they don't have faith in Christ's sacrifice to have their law breaking forgiven. That's why THEY are under the law, not believers justified through trusting in the blood of Christ.

Seeking to uphold the requirements of the law through faith is NOT being 'under the law'. You are the victim of the church's erroneous indoctrination about the role of law in the New Covenant.

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the END OF THE LAW, FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
there is no "requirement" to keep the written code of the law.

There is a "requirement" To love as He gave commandment.

1 John 3:23-24 AND THIS IS THE FATHERS COMMANDMENT. that we should believe on the name of His Son and LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS HE GAVE COMMANDMENT.
AS PAUL SAID
"NOTHING PROFITS ANYTHING BUT FAITH WORKING BY LOVE"
 
Those who attempt to be justified by the law, are under the curse of the law.
Well, since no one in this thread is doing that there's nothing left to talk about here.

Maybe someone will come along who is doing that and you can have a discussion with them.
yea, if your not under the 10 commandments and see them as required to be justified in Christ, You are free to go.
Just remember what you have heard on this thread?
THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.
 
Good to hear from you.
Likewise, childeye.

For I am not ever comfortable saying I don't sin, nor am I very comfortable saying I do sin. I believe there are semantics at work here in my brain.
Yes. I think we could reconcile that by attempting to define the 'I'. Our identity is comprised of 2 major parts -
" our nature + our consciousness = 'I' ".

When we were unregenerate ie in our flesh(self-nature), there was no need for the above distinction, since there was no conflict within ourselves. Every work/act was credited to us alone, since it was I alone(self-nature+consciousness) doing it.

But when we are regenerated, our conscious part(soul) is caused to be born from above in the spirit(God-nature) and is no longer in the flesh(self-nature). Now the "I" is defined as "God-nature(spirit) + our consciousness". Now, the distinction becomes very clear given the conflict between our God-nature(spirit) that is a part of the "I"(inner man) - and the self-nature(flesh) that we carry on as a decaying burden(outer man) along with its influences.

Before regeneration, I could simply say "I did this.." or "I did that.." and I wouldn't be needed to be any more specific. But after regeneration, whenever I have acted according to the flesh(outer-man), the factors in play are -
" our consciousness(part of the regenerated 'I') + flesh(sin nature, no longer part of the 'I' which has now been regenerated "
So, I'd say - it is no longer "I"(now spirit+consciousness) that does it but sin(corrupted flesh) in me (Rom 7:17).

On the other hand, whenever I have acted according to the spirit(inner-man), the factors in play are just the regenerated "I" (spirit+consciousness) - so, I could simply say "I did this.." or "I did that..." but in order to contrast this with these very same statements I made while in the flesh, I'd add -
"I[spirit+consciousness] did this, and yet not I(the unregenerate 'I'[flesh+consciousness]) but the grace of God(spirit+Holy Spirit) working in me (1 Cor 15:10).

After reading, perhaps you might return here and comment on your experience of crucifying the flesh.
I believe God has pretty much the same pattern in His dealing with man which He expresses in various ways.

Firstly, the semantics of "I crucifying my flesh" -
If I had been born at a time when the air was pure, I could simply have 'breathed' in and out of my lungs to stay alive. Now however, a toxic pollutant has contaminated the atmosphere. I can no longer simply breathe through my lungs without dying away slowly. And yet, I must breathe too. Initially, it doesn't seem a big deal and I go on with my own breathing whereby these toxins continue damaging my lungs. I am continuously commanded to get myself attached to a ventilator/respirator that can provide purified air(after filtering out the toxins) and that can pump my damaged lungs to sustain me. But I still am gasping and running short of breath all by myself - until I fall nearly unconscious without any strength.

At that time, a good doctor carries me into the hospital emergency ward - and gets me connected to the ventilator. I am barely conscious and can perceive what's happening around me, but merely as an inactive spectator. The doctor efficiently starts the ventilator, not waiting for any approval signatures from the patient or kin - And pure air that I never knew even existed, rushes into my lungs and I feel truly alive.

After a few days of the initial newfound elation, and in spite of the doctor's declaration - that whosoever is connected to the ventilator shall live - I think I'm healthy enough now to be off the ventilator and I get off it. I think I'm doing great for a start while actually I'm only running on reserves in me - and by the time I go too far, I am gasping terribly. The ventilator not only revived me then, it also changed me - I could no longer stay out in the toxic air and feel normal. I had tasted pure air and now I'd come off it into this? But when I'm again devoid of any strength, the doctor again carries me back into the ward and gets me connected to the ventilator again. And so on till the truth breaks into my hard skull that I cannot live apart from the ventilator - ever.

So, when I am asked to stop my own breathing, it's not so much as what I should be or should not be 'doing' rather than accepting what is 'being done' to me. My crucifying my flesh would "be done" in me by the Spirit of God in me - If I accept that, I would not be striving and struggling in my flesh to not strive and struggle in my flesh.

Semantics out of the way, I can now share a single thread of the crucifying-my-flesh experience.

While unregenerate, I still was legalistically religious(not godly though) - the difference being where the focus was - whether on what I was doing unto God - or on what was being done to God. I always took the Biblical teachings quite seriously - and clucked my tongue at the pharisees' vanity in trying to get praised in public. So, at the end of every charitable act of mine, I'd never announce it and I'd turn down the praise of others who learn of it quite graciously while attributing all the glory to God(because it's the right thing to do). And I'd go home, get into bed and relive those moments - especially the ones where I 'rejected' all temptation and 'gave up' all the glory to God. And I was not in the least bit aware that this was the greatest sin of 'self-pride' that C.S.Lewis so aptly described in his "Mere Christianity". When being regenerated, my horror at what 'evil I had done' was surprisingly superseded by my horror at what was 'being done to grieve God'.

Well, after my being regenerated, the urge to behave so does come up - but so does the thought reminding me of where that road leads to. And when I feel lost, not knowing how to do good without corrupting it with my own selfish(of the self) intents - there is that thought which pops up and says, "focus on the Object of the action and it will remind you of who the real Subject of the action is". That thought triggers the thought process to identify WHY I'm actually wanting to do whatever I'm doing - and if the thoughts lead me to a genuinely loving(focusing outward) deed, it would also lead me to the conclusion that I wouldn't have ended up there without God putting such love in me during that time - and if the thoughts lead me to pointing out my own interests(lust of the flesh, lust of the eye, pride of life), then there's also the accompanying thought that leads me to hate where I am and to pray for deliverance - which again God is faithful to do(since it was He who brought me to that point) - until I find myself able to do those good deeds in the right way.

In conclusion, God receives all the glory - not by force or by command, but by making me perceive the knowledge of His glorious nature. And in that, I am changed bit-by-bit - until I am fully conformed to the image of His Son, in which hope I live.
 

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