Is it Really So Easy?

[Edward]

So do you think that the moment that you say the sinners prayer that your name is written in the book of life? Just like that, instantly?

On earth before promotion to anything performance and knowledge is a prerequisite. A test, college, performance of duty in the Military, degrees are not just handed out for the asking. Privates are not made Generals from sheer desire. Dedication, good judgement, a structured evaluation and demonstration of abilities and knowledge is always required for anything. In the Military testing is not always required for promotion, sometimes just a demonstrated ability of leadership qualities can get one promoted.

What about salvation? Of course man does not have grace within himself like God does. It is a free gift, and yet, Paul Himself speaks in a slight tone which indicates that some performance is in order.

1 Corinthians 9:25-27

25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26 Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize./ (NIV)

2 Timothy 4:1-8

1 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5 But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

6 For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing./ (NIV)

He's talking to Timothy, (His son?) and charges him with what he must do. He sort of implies that this is necessary. Perhaps, just perhaps, that merely saying the sinners prayer and being baptised is not enough to receive salvation. A free gift for sure, but faith without works is dead and does not not seem to be enough to establish an honest belief in our Lord. If we love the Lord, we will keep His commandments. Many churches do not give this message. They probably get a bigger offering by merely making people feel good, and not charging them with Christian duties. Feel good preachers. What do you think?

 

[Slider]

From what I understand it is the starting point. Where people may go wrong is believing works of the flesh are necessary or even a sign of a believer. Works of the spirit are involved, but not of the flesh.

In 1 Cor 9 Paul is speaking about temperance (which in short, not letting the outer man control the inward man or bring it to ruin).

As for Timothy being Paul's son, I doubt it but I don't rule it out. That's another discussion, though... In any sense, Paul was training Timothy to be a preacher and how to go about it. He's saying his time is about up, and he has run the race. That is, he was faithful and persistent in his calling. Those certainly are qualities all Christians -- not only preachers -- need. It is a lesson well learned.

SOme of the things I read that are truly required of us are to love the Lord, love the brethren (Matthew 22:37-40), learn of him (Matthew 11:29), pay attention to attending the assembling (Hebrews 10:25), be a giver (Luke 6:38), worship in spirit and in truth (John 4:24) and, I hate to say it, but you have to have a preacher (Romans 10:13-14).

A complete list? Probably not. But it's a good start. It seems to me these are fruits of the spirit as opposed to the works of the Law.

 

[Deborah13]

As for Timothy being Paul's son, I doubt it but I don't rule it out

Just a quick note. Paul refers to Timothy as his son, but it doesn't appear he means as a biological son. Rather as a young man he has a close relationship, took him under his wing and trained him. I believe Timothy's mother and grandmother are spoken of as faithful women (Jews I think) but his father is not.

but you have to have a preacher

I really like this post. The one thing I add is that Romans 10:13-14, is that each of us are called to share the Gospel. My preacher in this case was an long time Baptist lady. She brought me the Gospel.

 

[Guest]

So do you think that the moment that you say the sinners prayer that your name is written in the book of life? Just like that, instantly?

Before answering this also read Matthew 15:19-20 For out of the heart come <SUP class=crossreference value='(A)'></SUP>evil thoughts, <SUP class=crossreference value='(B)'></SUP>murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, <SUP class=crossreference value='(C)'></SUP>slander. <SUP class=versenum>20 </SUP><SUP class=crossreference value='(D)'></SUP>These are what defile a person. But <SUP class=crossreference value='(E)'></SUP>to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone. Also read Romans 10:9 because, if <SUP class=crossreference value='(A)'></SUP>you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and <SUP class=crossreference value='(B)'></SUP>believe in your heart <SUP class=crossreference value='(C)'></SUP>that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Notice the word heart in both these scriptures.

 

[tim-from-pa]

So do you think that the moment that you say the sinners prayer that your name is written in the book of life? Just like that, instantly?

No. A lot of people have been deceived that way, especially if they go about doing what they please later on. One is saved because they were called first, and results in a life of ongoing faith, growth and obedience. I know of no child who was merely conceived, and then stayed that way.

On the other hand, if you want instant protection in just a moment, then get a fire insurance policy instead, maybe one-time premium. That's how some people treat Yeshua. But it won't protect against the lake of fire.

 

[Edward]

Before answering this also read Matthew 15:19-20 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. 20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone. Also read Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Notice the word heart in both these scriptures.

So is it reasonable to assume that a renewing of the heart must take place first? Which is a process, as I am finding out through personal experience.

 

[WIP]

Claiming to be Christian does not make one Christian. Claiming to be a believer does not make one a believer. Claiming to follow Christ does not make one a follower. Claiming to be born again does not make one born again. Claiming to be saved does not make one saved. My opinion.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

So is it reasonable to assume that a renewing of the heart must take place first? Which is a process, as I am finding out through personal experience

Yes, this should be why a person says the sinners' prayer.
A desire to be right with God is the first step.

 

[Edward]

Claiming to be Christian does not make one Christian. Claiming to be a believer does not make one a believer. Claiming to follow Christ does not make one a follower. Claiming to be born again does not make one born again. Claiming to be saved does not make one saved. My opinion.

Agreed. But is it instantaneous, or a renewing of the heart is needed first before one's name can written into the book of life?

 

[Doulos Iesou]

So do you think that the moment that you say the sinners prayer that your name is written in the book of life? Just like that, instantly?

On earth before promotion to anything performance and knowledge is a prerequisite. A test, college, performance of duty in the Military, degrees are not just handed out for the asking. Privates are not made Generals from sheer desire. Dedication, good judgement, a structured evaluation and demonstration of abilities and knowledge is always required for anything. In the Military testing is not always required for promotion, sometimes just a demonstrated ability of leadership qualities can get one promoted.

What about salvation? Of course man does not have grace within himself like God does. It is a free gift, and yet, Paul Himself speaks in a slight tone which indicates that some performance is in order.

1 Corinthians 9:25-27

25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26 Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize./ (NIV)

2 Timothy 4:1-8

1 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5 But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

6 For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing./ (NIV)

He's talking to Timothy, (His son?) and charges him with what he must do. He sort of implies that this is necessary. Perhaps, just perhaps, that merely saying the sinners prayer and being baptised is not enough to receive salvation. A free gift for sure, but faith without works is dead and does not not seem to be enough to establish an honest belief in our Lord. If we love the Lord, we will keep His commandments. Many churches do not give this message. They probably get a bigger offering by merely making people feel good, and not charging them with Christian duties. Feel good preachers. What do you think?

Is it really that easy? No.

“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few." Matthew 7:13-14(ESV)

Strange, how it seems easy to be a Christian now... when Jesus said that the way that leads to destruction is wide and the way is easy, but the gate to eternal life is narrow and the way is HARD, and few are those who find it.

How should I put the way Christians confuse this matter.

If I were to flaunt around my birth certificate and say, "look, I was born!" As proof that I was live, wouldn't that indeed be strange? Don't we verify more specifically if a person is alive not by looking at their birth certificate to see if their birth happened, but rather if they are continuing to live, are they actively living their life right now.. can you talk to them.. etc.

As Christians we too have confused this, instead of telling the Christian to investigate whether there is signs of life NOW, they are told to go back to a moment to investigate whether or not a prayer was said in a genuine manner, or if they really believed in their heart when they raised their hand.

Many of us are not preaching the hard sayings of Jesus and the apostles, this is a great tragedy..

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Claiming to be Christian does not make one Christian. Claiming to be a believer does not make one a believer. Claiming to follow Christ does not make one a follower. Claiming to be born again does not make one born again. Claiming to be saved does not make one saved. My opinion.

Agreed. But is it instantaneous, or a renewing of the heart is needed first before one's name can written into the book of life?

Yes, once you have a desire in your heart to be right with God and say that prayer, you are saved.
It really is that easy.
God never meant it to be hard.
He does all the work.
At that point in time, he starts to change us and mode us into what he wants us to be.
God will mode us into the person who does good works that are pleasing to God.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Is it really that easy? No.

We are looking at things from a different view point.

 

[farouk]

Justification by faith (Romans 5.1) occurs at a particular point in time; it's not a vague process. Either one has eternal life by faith in Christ, or one does not.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Agreed. But is it instantaneous, or a renewing of the heart is needed first before one's name can written into the book of life?

It seems you are going in the direction of if Regeneration happens before or after coming to faith (logically) this ultimately turns into a Calvinism and Arminianism debate. Ultimately, what I think matters is to REPENT. Before the prodigal son came back to the Father and received his forgiveness (which the Father was willing and ready to give) the son had to first come to himself. This isn't a radical reformation of one's character, but a recognition that one is a sinner and in need of mercy. This is the one who receives mercy, not the one who is righteous in his own eyes and thinks he doesn't need repentance.

 

[Vaccine]

To me, yes it is that easy. Jesus told the thief on the cross next to him that he would be with him(Jesus) in heaven that very day. The works are just building up our treasures in heaven.

 

[Edward]

Yes, once you have a desire in your heart to be right with God and say that prayer, you are saved.
It really is that easy.
God never meant it to be hard.
He does all the work.
At that point in time, he starts to change us and mode us into what he wants us to be.
God will mode us into the person who does good works that are pleasing to God.

This brings us back to urks point:

Matthew 15:19-20 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. 20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone. Also read Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Notice the word heart in both these scriptures.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

We are looking at things from a different view point.

What point of view are you looking at it through? I'm looking at it through a Biblical view.

When Jesus says the way is HARD, that leads to life. Versus the way being EASY that leads to destruction, I think we have some pretty clear distinctions.

Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. Matthew 16:24-25(ESV)

 

[gr8grace]

So do you think that the moment that you say the sinners prayer that your name is written in the book of life? Just like that, instantly?

On earth before promotion to anything performance and knowledge is a prerequisite. A test, college, performance of duty in the Military, degrees are not just handed out for the asking. Privates are not made Generals from sheer desire. Dedication, good judgement, a structured evaluation and demonstration of abilities and knowledge is always required for anything. In the Military testing is not always required for promotion, sometimes just a demonstrated ability of leadership qualities can get one promoted.

What about salvation? Of course man does not have grace within himself like God does. It is a free gift, and yet, Paul Himself speaks in a slight tone which indicates that some performance is in order.

1 Corinthians 9:25-27

25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26 Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize./ (NIV)

2 Timothy 4:1-8

1 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5 But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

6 For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing./ (NIV)

He's talking to Timothy, (His son?) and charges him with what he must do. He sort of implies that this is necessary. Perhaps, just perhaps, that merely saying the sinners prayer and being baptised is not enough to receive salvation. A free gift for sure, but faith without works is dead and does not not seem to be enough to establish an honest belief in our Lord. If we love the Lord, we will keep His commandments. Many churches do not give this message. They probably get a bigger offering by merely making people feel good, and not charging them with Christian duties. Feel good preachers. What do you think?

Everybody is written in the Book of Life, it is a matter of keeping your name in the Book. A believer is forever in, at the moment they believe In Christ. A unbeliever is blotted out because they never believed on The Lord Jesus Christ.

The sinners prayer has to be the right Prayer. It has to have the sinner believing in the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation.

Edward, It appeals to our nature that we have to do something to be saved. It does not appeal to our nature that we just have to believe. That is why, even on this christian site, that belief, can hardly be tolerated, its just to "easy" Acts 16:31

The object of our belief saves us.(Christ) It is of no merit on our part.

I know that we have went through some of this but, our position in Christ never changes, we are always children. And I see that someone has mentioned " conceived" in another post. The Christian perspective on that analogy is, we can never be unconceived in our position(that is our position, conceived) in our condition we can stay at that growth level, or we can choose to advance from our conception.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

When Jesus says the way is HARD, that leads to life. Versus the way being EASY that leads to destruction, I think we have some pretty clear distinctions.

In what way is it hard?
Can you explain so I can see it contradicts what I am saying?

 

[Doulos Iesou]

In what way is it hard?
Can you explain so I can see it contradicts what I am saying?

Well, this is what happens when salvation is summed up to a kind of transaction that happens. Salvation is ultimately experienced in the Resurrection and God's justification of us on the last day. However, we through faith experience that future salvation, the newness of life and present justification. This is not 100% assured however, one must endure in faith to the end, to fight the good fight of faith and be not just a convert who once claimed Jesus as Lord, but be a disciple who actually does what Jesus says.

Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’ Or what king, going out to encounter another king in war, will not sit down first and deliberate whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? And if not, while the other is yet a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace. So therefore, any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:27-33

This is a good example that Jesus uses.

There are two examples given here, the tower builder and the king going to war. The point he is drawing here is that no king or tower builder, would set out to build a tower or go to war without counting the costs and looking to see whether or not he could endure the battle, or have a enough money to finish the tower.

Jesus is pointing out the foolishness of those who seek to be Jesus' disciples without first counting the costs of the difficulties that will arise, even saying at the end, "anyone who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple."

How does that sound to you? Easy or hard?