Is Jesus FULLY God & Praying

[MarkT]

John 5:19
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever he does, that the Son does likewise.

Hear the words of the Lord. That's the workman speaking.

I should add that it is not enough to say they had the same name. The workman was the name. So when Moses asked him for his name, what could the workman say? I AM WHO I AM.

 

[Brother Mike]

Our spirit goes to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8), our body sleeps (Dig up any Christian you want to), and one day will be caught up. Many already experienced this in Matthew 27:51-52.

Ok You go dig them up... ewwwwww but we are on the same page.

Mike.

 

[Eugene]

John 5:19
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever he does, that the Son does likewise.

Hear the words of the Lord. That's the workman speaking.

I should add that it is not enough to say they had the same name. The workman was the name. So when Moses asked him for his name, what could the workman say? I AM WHO I AM.

I still have no idea what you are attempting to make known. I do know Jesus was equal with our Father, was with Him in the beginning, and as God made Himself of no reputation, dwelt with us and did always those things of our Father. Was Jesus less God becoming the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world? Mark, may I ask what type of church you attend, or any teaching you adhere to? Thanks.

 

[lowrab777]

The Holy Spirit is part of GOD that dwells in us it allows JESUS to live in us it allows us to stand before the throne of GOD I always imagined it like this if you were a sail boat with your sails aloft the holy spirit /wind would fill up your sail and move you in the direction that god wants you to go,.. Of course it is his very breath that fills that sail,... JESUS himself would be a pipe or conduit used to direct that breath all three elements working together to perform one task, that is to direct the sons of men to from the dangers of the raging sea into the peaceful river of life.

THOUGHTS??

 

[lowrab777]

The holy spirit is to me,.. as GODS very breath. The word RUACH means wind the word PNEUMA means wind, it is where the word pneumatic derives from. ,......... That means its a ............ HOLY WIND. Then there is GOD which is sitting at his thrown and JESUS sitting at his right hand. What ever GOD and JESUS are composed of they are still the same GOD and WORD of John 1:1 and they are still still the ELOHIM of geneses. And the HOLY SPIRIT of John14 is still the SACRED BREATH of Psalm51:11 Thats the way I understand it.

Is it possible that the holy spirit may not be a person but an extension of God,...
That which is his very breath??? Which advocates him and comforts you and is used by JESUS to intercede for you before GOD???? Kinda like a,....HOLY W I N D.?unno
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

And in the beginning when there was the GOD and the WORD,...... could it be that those TWO WORKING TOGETHER AS ONE used the HOLY W I N D / SPIRIT to create the physical realm in which we are composed of and bound to????.
And could it be that the HOLY WIND / SPIRIT is the very vehicle that carries with it the element of GOD that can interact with human kind, since GODS full glory cannot be seen by mankind with out killing him because he is too Terrible for us to grasp????.

And could it be that they are all working together for one purpose, one goal, one will?????

THOUGHTS???

I'm not a fan of Constantine he murdered his own family.

 

[Guest]

Is it possible that the holy spirit may not be a person but an extension of God,...

The Holy Spirit is a person because the HS can think and feel like a person.

Extension of God. Well....who is God?

 

[lowrab777]

The Holy Spirit is a person because the HS can think and feel like a person.

Ok I see how you could come to that,.....
But I still dont know what scripture you use to verify it,....
And I might just be the guy who is stuck there,....
I posted my thoughts on the matter,.. some Practical facts, even some scriptural facts,.....and it still remains a mystery to me.
I truly feel like that is GODS spiritual revelation to me as far as the subject of the HOLY SPIRIT AND the TRINITY,...
As I say call it what you will,....
GOD will undoubtedly be my judge on the matter. So if my contribution to this forum is discredited because of that, well so be it.

ONE GOD ONE SAVIOR ONE SPIRIT ONE GOAL

GOD, WORD, and SPIRIT ALL WORKING TOGETHER FOR ONE (1) PURPOSE

THE TITLE ELOHIM OF GENESES ENCOMPASSES THEM ALL.

Thats my understanding.

I do want to add as to clarify that statement,...I mean absolutely no disrespect or contempt to GODS HOLY SPIRIT. As I have been accused of in some conversations, not on this forum.

BLESSINGS!

 

[MarkT]

John 5:19
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever he does, that the Son does likewise.

Hear the words of the Lord. That's the workman speaking.

I should add that it is not enough to say they had the same name. The workman was the name. So when Moses asked him for his name, what could the workman say? I AM WHO I AM.

I still have no idea what you are attempting to make known. I do know Jesus was equal with our Father, was with Him in the beginning, and as God made Himself of no reputation, dwelt with us and did always those things of our Father. Was Jesus less God becoming the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world? Mark, may I ask what type of church you attend, or any teaching you adhere to? Thanks.

Is a servant equal to his master? No. It is enough that he be like his master. Jesus was like the Father, but he never claimed he was God or equal to God. Like I said before, he was the temple, the Son of the living God. In a Father/Son relationship the Son always honours the Father.

The first thing the devil said to Eve is you can be equal to God. So we have to be careful not to fall for that lie. Even Jesus had to be careful to not make himself God or equal to God even though he was the Son and the heir to the throne of God. Things come to pass in time.

You read in the beginning the Word was with God and the Word was God. I would put it this way. When God said something, his Word, would do the same. Like if God said, "I am the LORD", his Word would say, "I am the LORD." But one thing occurs in heaven and the other thing occurs on earth. Pr. tells us he was created, the first act of old. He was set up ages ago before the earth was formed. He was beside the LORD, like a master workman, and he was the LORD's daily delight. Well the first act was the light. And then what ever God said, the light would do.

 

[MarkT]

Jesus is our Lord and God but God the Father is God overall including Jesus. God the Father gave Jesus life. He gave him his name. He gave Jesus everything, his power and his authority.

What church do I belong to? I belong to his church.

 

[Eugene]

Is a servant equal to his master? No. It is enough that he be like his master. Jesus was like the Father, but he never claimed he was God or equal to God.

Dear Mark, to me you are comparing apples and oranges as it were. Jesus as God empowered and Jesus become man subject to our Father.

Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God." Here Jesus claimed being equal with God the Father.

Isaiah 40:3 "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness (John Matthew 3:3), Prepare ye the way of the LORD (Jesus is Jehovah), make straight in the desert a highway for our God."

Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I (Jesus), am the LORD (Jehovah); and beside me there is no saviour."

Acts 4:11-12 This is the stone (Jesus) which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Isaiah 43:14 Thus saith the LORD (Jehovah), your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.

Isaiah 43:15 I (Jesus) am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.

 

[Guest]

The Holy Spirit is a person because the HS can think and feel like a person.

Ok I see how you could come to that,.....
But I still dont know what scripture you use to verify it,....

The HS has a mind. 1 Cor 2:10-11 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. The HS has feelings and can be grieved. Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. When I say thinks and feels like a person, well..was Jesus a person? Where did Jesus come from? Who created humanity? ;)....God the Father.

 

[MarkT]

Is a servant equal to his master? No. It is enough that he be like his master. Jesus was like the Father, but he never claimed he was God or equal to God.

Dear Mark, to me you are comparing apples and oranges as it were. Jesus as God empowered and Jesus become man subject to our Father.

Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God." Here Jesus claimed being equal with God the Father.

Fortunately you have the RSV which says, 'who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped' Philippians 2:6

Read it carefully. Being in the form of God is not saying he was God. It's telling you something, if you believe Jesus was the LORD. It's saying the LORD was in the form of God the Father. That's pretty much what Jesus said to Philip, "He who has seen me has seen the Father." As far as being equal to God the Father, the RSV says he did not count equality with God something you can grasp. In that sense he was not a rebellious son. He honoured the Father.

Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I (Jesus), am the LORD (Jehovah); and beside me there is no saviour."

You're inserting your own interpretation into the text. I could say, "I, even I (the Father), am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.' Remember who has us in his hand, who gives men to the Son, who sent the Son, who did Jesus say was greater than him, who did Jesus say was the true God? The Father. Jesus was the truth, the light and the way. The Father has us in his hand. The Father gives men to the Son. The Father sent the Son. The Father is greater than Jesus. The Father is the true God.

The enemy accused Jesus of making himself God. Who ya gonna believe? Do you want to be in their camp when the Lord returns?

 

[Brother Mike]

Jesus is our Lord and God but God the Father is God overall including Jesus. God the Father gave Jesus life. He gave him his name. He gave Jesus everything, his power and his authority.

Jesus has no creation date or given life date. Jesus said He was with the father before the foundation of the World. Peter also says the same thing that Jesus was here before the foundation of the World. Both Father and son do not have a "Made by" date.

lowrab777


I'm not a fan of Constantine he murdered his own family.


He only formulated the concept of Trinity. He worshiped other gods that were also Triune in Nature so it made sense that our God must also be. He was not a saved man, or a very nice man.
The Roman Catholic Church accepted the Concept but not as written. More early forms of the Doctrine made Jesus a lesser deity that make up God. Rome rejected that.

The whole concept boils down to this.............. We believe there is only ONE GOD!!!!

That is what the Trinity Doctrine is about. Jesus is fully God and 2nd person of the trinity and God the father is the 1st part of the Trinity. Both are equal both are persons both are God.

Pay attention............................

2 persons in the trinity, Both God, the 2nd person came and died for us, but there is only ONE GOD though we just told you there was two.

So, no matter how many scriptures you want to use to prove something, you come to this wall here. So the Doctrine itself says this part is the Mystery because it can't be explained by scriptures.

That is the doctrine that 3 are really just ONE.

So you accept that as fact or you don't.

Blessings.

 

[Guest]

[MENTION=7377]Brother Mike[/MENTION] I believe there's only ONE GOD. Preach on brother. Blessings.

 

[Free]

Trinity says there are 3 Gods, all persons, all equal but are only One God.

I find some get the doctrines confused at time so just needed to clarify.

So to clarify then, the doctrine of the Trinity does not state that there are three Gods, all persons, and all equal but there is only one God. I have given you a basic definition and it is purposely worded in such a way as to avoid the contradiction you have just given, the same contradiction in your position.

There are not three Gods. Period. There is only one God but three co-equal, co-eternal Persons.

 

[Sparkey]

Acts 4:11-12 This is the stone (Jesus) which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Isaiah 43:14 Thus saith the LORD (Jehovah), your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.

Eugene,

It sounds to me like you are saying that Acts, chapter 4 and verse 12 states emphatically that Jesus alone is our Savior and that "...neither is there salvation in any other."

When I read the Word of God spoken to the Israelites through the Prophet in this light, it appears differently than if I were not afforded the opportunity to understand what God meant as seen through the actions and words of the Son of Man.

It further seems to me that what you are saying is that Jesus is not only The Light but He alone may shed light on the Nature of His Father, our God. If there is indeed no salvation in any other the conclusion you draw is unavoidable. How could it be more plain than, "I and my Father are one."

The only part that stumbles me is when Jesus goes on to pray that we also become one with the Father even as He is one with Him. It has not even entered into the mind of man what God has prepared for them who love Him (paraphrase of 1Cor 2:9). We do not know what we shall be, but we shall be like Him (Jesus) (1John 3:2). This is the part that makes me stop and scratch my head in wonderment. I'm not God. Can the living word really do what it seems to claim? Can we really be like Him?

Sometimes I can glimpse what is happening and can see myself being transformed and changing. But can a caterpillar know what it is like to fly? Pardon the faulty analogy, and I know that I'm taking the "mystery" of such things too far here. It is certainly not my claim that we will be God but there are these things that we simply cannot know spoken of in the Bible. What does it mean, "The two shall become one flesh?" When I contemplate such things I have to invite the Lord to help me as it is too much for me.

It seems to me that God is speaking the truth here and that He is aware of our limitations. Further, that Jesus had to become flesh because we were not able to hear the intent and purpose of God without him. It all makes me wonder about the utter goodness of God. How can we become that bride that Jesus has been promised? What does it all mean?

He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. [John 3:29]

And Jesus said unto them, Can the friends of the bridegroom fast, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.[Mark 2:19]

"Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom."

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. [Revelation 19:7]

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. [Revelation 22:17]

Ephesians 5:22-33 compares the union of husband and wife to that of Christ and the church.
When Christ nourishes and cherishes the ekklēsia, he nourishes and cherishes his own flesh. Just as the husband, when he loves his wife is loving his own flesh.[Eph. 5:28]

"For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him".

[2 Cor. 11:2-4]

"Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God."

[Romans 7:4]

First John 3:3:
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

The Mystery of the Ages, Christ in you, the hope of glory. Col 1:27. For we are saved by hope, Rom 8:24

Stop me before I quote the whole of Psalm 51. There is no end to the Glory that is from God. Great is the mystery that shall be revealed when we see Him face to face. For me? It is counted good to be allowed to see Him move in others toward what is promised. Very good.

 

[Guest]

There are not three Gods. Period. There is only one God but three co-equal, co-eternal Persons.

You just admitted there's three Gods, you just worded it differently.

 

[Brother Mike]

@Brother Mike I believe there's only ONE GOD. Preach on brother. Blessings.

Amen!!!!

There are not three Gods. Period. There is only one God but three co-equal, co-eternal Persons.

Free. Please.

You want to take the Methodist version? Just tell me which version.

They believe there are 3 persons, all distinct but they don't believe each person is God. They are only called God when you mash them together. Baptist call them all God, and distinct persons. The book of discipline does not. That is why we have different denominations.

Catholics believe there are 3 all distinct persons, all coequal all God but 3 make 1. They take the stance of the Niacian council. The First Council of Nicea believe Jesus was God, of God. He was begotten though but from God.

First Council of Constantinople believe that Jesus is God, of God, but Begotten before the World. A slight difference here. Both believe Jesus is God, and distinct, and a person. That is God, of God.

John stated there were 3, It would take a stretch of imagination that these 3 are not fully God, The 3 though are One. This is what the scripture says that came from the Commna.

Lutherans believe that each is a person, but the Holy Spirit comes from the Father and Son who are also Persons. This is different than the other doctrines I mentioned. So each a person, the Holy Spirit only comes from two of them, but not of himself. They take the Catholic version but have modernized it. They believe Jesus is "BY NATURE" God..............Scholastic Lutheran Christology

Pick one Free....................... Which one you want to believe?

I would pick Methodist if I were you, that way Jesus is not God, but a person. Your argument then stands. (You win!!!!) Also the Thayer Greek defines Theos as part of the Trinity. The Greek definition for Theos is Trinity in Thayer Greek written by Joseph Henry (Methodist). He put the book of discipline in all the definitions he could to clear up misunderstandings of what the Greek words really mean.

Pick one, then lets stick with the one you choose.

URK:
You just admitted there's three Gods, you just worded it differently.

I don't think he understands that just yet. We are getting there though.

Mike.

 

[Free]

There are not three Gods. Period. There is only one God but three co-equal, co-eternal Persons.

You just admitted there's three Gods, you just worded it differently.

I used those words precisely to avoid the error that there are three Gods. So, no, I did not admit that there are three Gods. I suggest you re-read what I wrote.

 

[Guest]

[MENTION=142]Free[/MENTION] It all comes down to what your idea of who God is, and how vast you think he is. Co-equal and co-eternal means what to you?