Do you support OSAS(once saved always saved)?

[chessman]

Not Biblically conceivable? Yes, it is. Jesus said in Matthew 18:23-35 NASB a person will be forgiven, …

Since (if indeed) God knows all things, why in the world would He reconcile a sinner, present him holy and blameless, and all only to later blame him? God does know all things (indeed He does), it's not an "if" that's conceivable Biblically.

The “if” that I meant was not conceivable Biblically here was that God does not know all things. I didn’t mean OSAS=no was inconceivable.
I could have been more clear, I suppose. Sorry.
For some reason lately, the text editor on my phone is squirrelly and it’s hard to edit posts correctly.

Do you think "moved away from the hope" means to become unsaved?

Just so I'm clear on your take on Col 1:22-23, is your answer to this question, yes or no?

 

[jeff77]

That would place Mormon's and Jehovah's Witness's in the category of having the fruits of the Spirit, when most of them don't believe, nor have a born again doctrine, or the Baptism of The Holy Spirit.

JLB

I don't believe that Mormon's and JW'S would fit in this category. I believe they would be acting/believing in knowledge from another spirit.

 

[JLB]

Peter continues his admonition to the Church in his second letter -

15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet. 17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. 18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome...

These who are again entangled are described by Peter as those who once had escaped, through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior.

These people have forsaken the right way.

Those who teach the doctrine of OSAS, must completely ignore these words, and many others like them, that clearly warn us to maintain a healthy fear of the Lord, and to turn away from the corrupting influence of the world lest we become ensnared again, and to look at the examples the scriptures have given us of those who indeed turn away from the right way, even angels that were once declared sons of God are now chained in the bottom of hell.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I don't believe that Mormon's and JW'S would fit in this category. I believe they would be acting/believing in knowledge from another spirit.

So witnessing to others does not necessarily show us that a person has "heart knowledge" vs "head knowledge", as your post seems to indicate.

If I misunderstood you, please forgive me.

The person's actions. For example, if they have a desire to share Jesus with other people and because of that desire you would see them witnessing. Changing the way you live by obeying God.

Someone with the head but not the heart knowledge would not show any fruits of the spirit.

JLB

 

[jeff77]

So witnessing to others does not necessarily show us that a person has "heart knowledge" vs "head knowledge", as your post seems to indicate.

If I misunderstood you, please forgive me.




JLB

It's ok, I should have been more specific. Witnessing to others about the Christian God. Although the JW's and sometimes the Mormon's can be deceiving to a person that is unaware of Biblical truth. When JW's witness to someone they will start out by talking about similarities with Christianity to draw the person in before they present their false doctrines.

 

[JLB]

Rom 4: 2 - For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4: 4 - Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
James 2:18-21


James is describing the obedience [works] of faith.

The "works" that James is showing that we must have is the effort that obedience requires.

Abraham continued in the life of faith with God, as James shows this was well after his initial encounter with God.



Romans, on the other hand, is contrasting the works of the law, with the righteousness of believing faith.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin." 9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. Romans 3:27 - 4:9


Two different works. Two different laws.

The works of the law. The law of Moses.

The works [obedience] that validates a living faith. The law of faith.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The “if” that I meant was not conceivable Biblically here was that God does not know all things.

Your premise is that since God knows all things ahead of time that he would not forgive someone who he knew would later abandon that forgiveness. But Jesus said his parable of the unmerciful servant (Matthew 18:23-35 NASB) can be compared to how it is in the kingdom, and says what his Father will do to each of us who act like the servant did.

In that parable the servant begs for forgiveness, receives it, but then has it rescinded when the servant shows contempt for the forgiveness he has received by not showing that same forgiveness to those who are indebted to him.

The truly insecure thing about the OSAS teaching you present here (the doctrine of...ahem...security) is just what you say, that God knows who will continue in forgiveness if given it and only they actually receive that forgiveness, while those who he knows will fail really aren't forgiven, but just think they are after asking for forgiveness.

How does any one person in that doctrine know they really did receive God's forgiveness? They can't know that until they fail. And then when they do fail, how do they know their next go at asking for God's forgiveness will result in really being forgiven this time? That's not eternal security. But knowing your future is secure as long as you continue to believe and trust in the surety of Christ's death, that is eternal security. You are eternally secure as long as you believe. That's what non-OSAS is all about.

Just so I'm clear on your take on Col 1:22-23, is your answer to this question, yes or no?

Yes, moving away from the hope of the gospel means you have moved away from what Paul plainly says the gospel is in that passage, which is being "formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,22 yet...now reconciled...in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach" (Colossians 1:21-22 NASB)

Do you agree that what I quoted is the hope of the gospel? If so, do you agree or disagree that if you don't have that reconciliation anymore you will not be saved on the day of presentation, the Day of Judgment? Yes, or no?

 

[Deborah13]

I perceive that this thread is not staying focused on the OP and the original topic, clearly stated by it's author.
The author asked if a person who is TRULY saved can ever lose their salvation?

Some not all of the posts have strayed from the answer to this question.

 

[chessman]

Your premise is that since God knows all things ahead of time that he would not forgive someone who he knew would later abandon that forgiveness.

Close, but not precisely. My premise was that God would not present someone Holy and blameless in Heaven at one point in time, knowing full well they really, in their end time, are not presentable as holy and blameless. I read this, not through an OSAS lens, but in 1 Peter. This part:


1 Peter 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood:May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

...According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you,

I stand by my premise above so when I read:
who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I see zero evidence OSAS is not true in that partial statement of Peter's. And I love the fact that it's caused through faith.

"formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,22 yet...now reconciled...in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach" (Colossians 1:21-22 NASB)

Do you agree that what I quoted is the hope of the gospel?

Of course not. You didn't even quote the verse that stated "hope of the gospel"

Colossians 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Why would Paul say they heard the gospel, if he meant they just read it?

My premise on verse 23 is that He's referring to their Hope (their minds, v21, their confidence, so to speak) shifting. not their salvation shifting, again, not through any lens. That's simply what he said. In either language.

You asked for someone to reconcile this verse given OSAS. I spent the time to reply out of respect to you. I don't expect anything more, unless you can show me where my take is incorrect. I'd appreciate it.

I understand your argument and all you've said about what OSAS is. I DO NOT think your argument is unconceivable.

I'm trying to stay very close to actual Scriptures though.
(1 Peter 1 and Col 1), so I'll not comment on the rest. Might even watch a little BBall.

Also, verses 21-22 has nothing in it about Jesus' resurrection. It's not the gospel, in full. In fact mentioning His flesh (incarnation) is an additional premise (I believe) as to just how serious God is about His elect's reconciliation. Which is the basic premise I hold to via passages like 1 Peter.

 

[Butch5]

Close, but not precisely. My premise was that God would not present someone Holy and blameless in Heaven at one point in time, knowing full well they really, in their end time, are not presentable as holy and blameless. I read this, not through an OSAS lens, but in 1 Peter. This part:


1 Peter 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood:May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

...According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you,

I stand by my premise above so when I read:
who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I see zero evidence OSAS is not true in that partial statement of Peter's. And I love the fact that it's caused through faith.


Of course not. You didn't even quote the verse that stated "hope of the gospel"

Colossians 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Why would Paul say they heard the gospel, if he meant they just read it?

My premise on verse 23 is that He's referring to their Hope (their minds, v21, their confidence, so to speak) shifting. not their salvation shifting, again, not through any lens. That's simply what he said. In either language.

You asked for someone to reconcile this verse given OSAS. I spent the time to reply out of respect to you. I don't expect anything more, unless you can show me where my take is incorrect. I'd appreciate it.

I understand your argument and all you've said about what OSAS is. I DO NOT think your argument is unconceivable.

I'm trying to stay very close to actual Scriptures though.
(1 Peter 1 and Col 1), so I'll not comment on the rest. Might even watch a little BBall.

Also, verses 21-22 has nothing in it about Jesus' resurrection. It's not the gospel, in full. In fact mentioning His flesh (incarnation) is an additional premise (I believe) as to just how serious God is about His elect's reconciliation. Which is the basic premise I hold to via passages like 1 Peter.

I'm not getting into the discussion you guys are having, however, I did want t point out an improper translation. Chessman you said, "1 Peter 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood:May grace and peace be multiplied to you."

That translation isn't accurate. Young's Literal translation follows the Greek text.

YLT 1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the choice sojourners of the dispersion of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 according to a foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, to obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied! (1Pe 1:1-2 YLT)

The passage actually said to the elect sojourners of the dispersion. Verse 1 is who Peter is addressing and verse 2 is what he wishes for them. He is actually saying grace and peace to you be multiplied according to God's knowing you (as the Jewish people) before (in the past.) Remember he's addressing Jewish believers. Peter is not talking about God having foreknown the future.

I just wanted to point that out since it seemed to me that your argument is base at least partly on this.

 

[chessman]

I just used the NASB because JB had.

1 Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.

Peter is not talking about God having foreknown the future.

I just wanted to point that out since it seemed to me that your argument is base at least partly on this.

How about the underlined portion of verse 5:4, is Peter talking with a premise that God has foreknowledge of the future?

How about the second half?

1 Peter 5:6-7 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, so that he may exalt you at the right time, casting all your cares on him, because he cares for you.

1 Peter 5:9 Resist him[Satan], steadfast in your faith, because you know the same kinds of sufferings are being accomplished by your community of believers in the world.

There's that steadfast in your faith again.

And his conclusion recaps his beginning:
1 Peter 5:10 And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered for a short time, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.

1 Peter 1:4-5 into an inheritance imperishable and undefiled and unfading, reserved in heaven for you who are being protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time,

Jewish or not

 

[Butch5]

I just used the NASB because JB had.

1 Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.



How about the underlined portion of verse 5:4, is Peter talking with a premise that God has foreknowledge of the future?

How about the second half?

1 Peter 5:6-7 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, so that he may exalt you at the right time, casting all your cares on him, because he cares for you.

1 Peter 5:9 Resist him, steadfast in your faith, because you know the same kinds of sufferings are being accomplished by your community of believers in the world.

There's that steadfast in your faith again.

And his conclusion recaps his beginning:
1 Peter 5:10 And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered for a short time, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.

1 Peter 1:4-5 into an inheritance imperishable and undefiled and unfading, reserved in heaven for you who are being protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time,

Jewish or not

Hi Chessman,

I'm not sure what you're asking with these later passages. My point was that the phrase, " according to the foreknowledge of God" was being applied to "grace and peace to you be multiplied". The Greek word translated foreknowledge is a compound word, Pro= before and Ginosko= to know and is only used a few times in Scripture. It's also translated fore ordain. I don't see any use of the word in Scripture that requires the meaning of God knowing the future. That doesn't mean He doesn't. However, every appearance of the word in the NT can be understood as someone having known something before or in the past. I believe that is the proper understanding of the word because if we say that word means God knows the future, we have no way to prove that this meaning is correct so at best it is speculation. If we understand it as God having known someone or some thing in the past it can be proven from the Scriptures and it fit within the context of the passage.

KJV Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: (Act 2:23 KJV)

4 My manner of life from my youth, which was at the first among mine own nation at Jerusalem, know all the Jews; 5 Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee. (Act 26:1 KJV)

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Rom 8:1 KJV)

These three and the one we're considering are the only passages that I'm aware of and all of them can be understood as something known in the past.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Close, but not precisely. My premise was that God would not present someone Holy and blameless in Heaven at one point in time, knowing full well they really, in their end time, are not presentable as holy and blameless.

I've been saying for months now that these OSAS/ predetermined salvation doctrines are closely related. Not surprised that your OSAS theology has roots in predetermined salvation. And as long a person believes in predetermined election it will be hard to look at the plain words of scripture that plainly contradict the claims of OSAS. Those words will get filtered through the premise of predetermined salvation.

The problem with predetermined salvation is we have plain teaching in the Bible which I presented that shows us that in the kingdom the king does in fact forgive people who will later have that forgiveness rescinded. Do we have to make that teaching go away so this doctrine of predetermined salvation and God only saving those he knows ahead of time have been picked for salvation can stand? I'm not doing that anymore. I'm not tossing aside plain teachings in the Bible in preference to these popular, ear tickling, end-times doctrines cooked up through implied understandings of scripture. Not going to do it anymore.

 

[Butch5]

Hi Chessman,

I'm not sure what you're asking with these later passages. My point was that the phrase, " according to the foreknowledge of God" was being applied to "grace and peace to you be multiplied". The Greek word translated foreknowledge is a compound word, Pro= before and Ginosko= to know and is only used a few times in Scripture. It's also translated fore ordain. I don't see any use of the word in Scripture that requires the meaning of God knowing the future. That doesn't mean He doesn't. However, every appearance of the word in the NT can be understood as someone having known something before or in the past. I believe that is the proper understanding of the word because if we say that word means God knows the future, we have no way to prove that this meaning is correct so at best it is speculation. If we understand it as God having known someone or some thing in the past it can be proven from the Scriptures and it fit within the context of the passage.

KJV Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: (Act 2:23 KJV)

4 My manner of life from my youth, which was at the first among mine own nation at Jerusalem, know all the Jews; 5 Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee. (Act 26:1 KJV)

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Rom 8:1 KJV)

These three and the one we're considering are the only passages that I'm aware of and all of them can be understood as something known in the past.

I have to make a correction to the above post Acts 2:23 quoted above is not proginosko but rather prognosis. The words are similar but not exactly the same.

 

[veryberry]

.

I have to make a correction to the above post Acts 2:23 quoted above is not proginosko but rather prognosis. The words are similar but not exactly the same.

Do really believe that the almighty God the creator of all that you see and can't see( both in the world and out) and that can raise your dead corpse from the dead can't produce a perfect bible in English and that you have to go to the greek/hebrew to try to understand your own language? But back to the topic. But I think OSAS is the wrong name. It should be OSES(Once Saved Eternally Saved).

 

[Butch5]

.

Do really believe that the almighty God the creator of all that you see and can't see( both in the world and out) and that can raise your dead corpse from the dead can't produce a perfect bible in English and that you have to go to the greek/hebrew to try to understand your own language? But back to the topic. But I think OSAS is the wrong name. It should be OSES(Once Saved Eternally Saved).

I didn't say that. However, it appears He chose not to. Are you suggesting that these translators are infallible?

Regarding OSAS, I would agree it you were talking about the final stage of salvation but I know you're not so I'll have to disagree.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Colossians 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.
[...]
My premise on verse 23 is that He's referring to their Hope (their minds, v21, their confidence, so to speak) shifting. not their salvation shifting, again, not through any lens. That's simply what he said. In either language.

The 'hope of the gospel' is the promise of having your sins forgiven through Christ and appearing before God holy and blameless on the Day of Judgment (holy and blameless because you've had your sin forgiven). All of this being accomplished through the death and resurrection of Christ. That is the gospel.

We probably both agree you have to believe in this hope, this gospel, to have it effectual for you yourself. Paul is telling them it is effectual and applicable to them as long as they they stay steadfast in faith in that hope, that gospel. Stop doing that and you no longer have the hope and promise the gospel gives (a 'hope' and a 'promise' because it is about things to come). Faith is how you access the hope held out in the gospel. No faith, or no continuing faith--no way to access the hope and promise of the gospel.

I see how predetermined salvation makes what he's saying not applicable to believers; and how that could move someone to interpret 'if indeed' to mean 'you definitely will', instead of 'if in fact and actuality', but I think Jesus' explanation of how things are in the kingdom removes the idea completely that anybody who has received God's forgiveness believes in that forgiveness because God made them that way and there's nothing that can change that. That was not true for the servant in that parable.

Jesus said the kingdom can be compared to that, and that his Father will treat each of us if we do what the servant did. Predetermined salvation simply can not stand in the face of that plain teaching. So with the doctrine of predetermined salvation legitimately taken out of the way we see that the gospel hope and promise is indeed based on one continuing in faith in that hope and promise to the very end. Since no one has been pre-programmed to believe, and the danger of you not believing to the end is real, it is necessary to warn those who have believed to keep believing to the very end.

I don't know why people resist this teaching. We all were born again because we believed. What is the flack all about that we must continue to do that to the very end? I don't understand the resistance. What are people afraid of? The only thing I can see is that they think if they have to believe that makes the gospel a works gospel....but that is what they had to do to be born again in the first place. Did that believing make it a works gospel then?

 

[JLB]

The 'hope of the gospel' is the promise of having your sins forgiven through Christ and appearing before God holy and blameless on the Day of Judgment (holy and blameless because you've had your sin forgiven). All of this being accomplished through the death and resurrection of Christ. That is the gospel.

We probably both agree you have to believe in this hope, this gospel, to have it effectual for you yourself. Paul is telling them it is effectual and applicable to them as long as they they stay steadfast in faith in that hope, that gospel. Stop doing that and you no longer have the hope and promise the gospel gives (a 'hope' and a 'promise' because it is about things to come). Faith is how you access the hope held out in the gospel. No faith, or no continuing faith--no way to access the hope and promise of the gospel.

I see how predetermined salvation makes what he's saying not applicable to believers; and how that could move someone to interpret 'if indeed' to mean 'you definitely will', instead of 'if in fact and actuality', but I think Jesus' explanation of how things are in the kingdom removes the idea completely that anybody who has received God's forgiveness believes in that forgiveness because God made them that way and there's nothing that can change that. That was not true for the servant in that parable.

Jesus said the kingdom can be compared to that, and that his Father will treat each of us if we do what the servant did. Predetermined salvation simply can not stand in the face of that plain teaching. So with the doctrine of predetermined salvation legitimately taken out of the way we see that the gospel hope and promise is indeed based on one continuing in faith in that hope and promise to the very end. Since no one has been pre-programmed to believe, and the danger of you not believing to the end is real, it is necessary to warn those who have believed to keep believing to the very end.

I don't know why people resist this teaching. We all were born again because we believed. What is the flack all about that we must continue to do that to the very end? I don't understand the resistance. What are people afraid of? The only thing I can see is that they think if they have to believe that makes the gospel a works gospel....but that is what they had to do to be born again in the first place. Did that believing make it a works gospel then?

There is so much resistance to this teaching because of the destructive heresies that have weakened the church.

Heresies that have been introduced by those who have grown rich by tickling peoples ears with what they wanted to hear.

as Peter warned - after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ...

But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies...
15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet. 17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. 18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 2 Peter 2:15-20


...they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption;



JLB

 

[reba]

JLB this is kinda why i get bugged when people insert their words into scripture... like "saying antichrist" is in The Revelation. or "The Great Tribulation".
Scripture has enough complexities with out us adding to it...

 

[Deborah13]

Jethro Bodine you said,
"Paul is telling them it is effectual and applicable to them as long as they they stay steadfast in faith in that hope, that gospel. Stop doing that and you no longer have the hope and promise the gospel gives (a 'hope' and a 'promise' because it is about things to come). Faith is how you access the hope held out in the gospel. No faith, or no continuing faith--no way to access the hope and promise of the gospel."

I just add that if a person did what you say is rejection of the Savior, they will never, ever, ever be able to be saved again. per Hebrews,

Heb 6:4 for it is impossible for those once enlightened, having tasted also of the heavenly gift, and partakers having became of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and did taste the good saying of God, the powers also of the coming age,
Heb 6:6 and having fallen away, again to renew them to reformation, having crucified again to themselves the Son of God, and exposed to public shame.