Bible Study WELCOME TO A DEEP LOOK AT GENESIS

[th1b.taylor]

Hi Chopper,
I'm currently in chapter 40 of my year long study of Genesis with my class at Church, GOM or the Grumpy Old Men's Class. By this time I'm sure that, just about, all here know my position on never trying to be large enough or wise enough to pretend we can interpret the Word other tan from one language to another. My first rule of Hermeneutics is, "No verse, nor any group of verses, can ever be understood without the light of all other scripture sinning, unrestrained, on it or them." My position on the Gap Theory begins with, the Bible does not teach it, therefore, with no legs in scripture, it cannot stand.

Reba has done well in tying the beginning of John into sequence with the beginning of all scripture. As I have been given to understand, Genesis, is beginnings in meaning and I, being a Life Application teacher find the title's meaning of great worth to any serious follower of God. In the past I have studied this and discussed it with other teachers, some of them speaking or understanding the ancient languages and they have, almost, universally agreed that the first title used in Genesis is a plural form of the ancient term for God.

I feel that the improper application (my honest opinion and not up for rgument here) of inserting the Gap Theory between verses one and two is. most, often due to the failure to read the text and then to meditate upon it. As I have learned, there was a word used for what we term a day age at the time of Moses recording these passages, given to him, directly from God. God, being all knowing. certainly, did not use the incorrect term. And then there is the education of the man chosen to record these words from God, Moses was one of the best educated men of his era. Moses was being raised to be the Egyptian God seated on the throne and received only the very best of everything, leaving it to be very, very, unlike he would use the wrong term. We must remeber that this passage was not carried around, verbally, for thousands of generations nor years. Moses wrote things down on the first form of paper and on anima skins.

 

[th1b.taylor]

What a great time to start a Genesis study ! The time when our Lord redeemed us and prepared the making of all things new. Thank You Lord Jesus.

I often wonder if the creation account was simply a way to introduce Yahweh to His people and show His power and His sovereignty over them and them progress to show His love and plans for them. I don't look at this part of Genesis as intending to show specifics about how Jesus created but simply that He did with very general, and simplistic, language.

I don't think that to be the case at all. If it were the Holy Spirt would have rebent, almost, all of the Life Application He has taught me. After the past 24 years of study I have been taught to see that without Genesis, all of scripture will not stand as truth. To this point in time the great majority of the people I have interacted with that find scriptures to be, largely, mythical have found Genesis and especially the Creation Chapters to be myth or a ethod for God to introduce Himself.

That will not hold water because when God wanted Bill Taylor to know Him, He spoke to me in that still, small but audible to me, voice. When God first spoke to Abram He spoke to him. When God wanted Abram to know he was to have a new name and to be the father of many nations, God apeared in a created body, had lunch and engaged Abraham in conversation, He spoke to him.

Hope you see why I feel this way.

 

[agua.]

Yes Bill I understand why you think that. Yahweh has revealed Himself to me in a different way where I don't struggle with such things. I'm not going to debate the method he used to reveal Himself here. Genesis is of course truth that isn't under question.

 

[jasonc]

Yes Bill I understand why you think that. Yahweh has revealed Himself to me in a different way where I don't struggle with such things. I'm not going to debate the method he used to reveal Himself here. Genesis is of course truth that isn't under question.

jews take that part literally but remember its not intended to be used in the evo vs creation debate but rather to explain how we can to be and why are the way we are. I say that because there wasn't any question of if god did create but what god created it!

 

[Chopper]

Day 2 Genesis 1:6-10 HEAVEN AND EARTH.

 

[Chopper]

you assume that im not a Trinitarian?

Absolutely not! I know that you believe in the Trinity, but Hebrew doctrine does not. That is my complaint, Hebrew theology does not allow Jesus Christ any part of God. I love you Brother Jason, I know that you are in a very difficult situation being a Messianic Jew, adhering to Christian doctrine yet retrieving Hebrew practices to help me and others understand our Scriptures better. My hat is off to you Buddy, because I realize a little about what a difficult mind set that must be.

 

[Chopper]

Is it heaven and earth or heavens and earth?. Im lost on the very first sentence. lol.

You are correct. Heavens & Earth. I'll explain Heavens in my post.

 

[Chopper]

"The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together." Colossians 1:15-17 NIV

This Scripture seems to say that in the beginning Jesus created heaven, the earth, stars, man, angels, everything... We were created for Jesus. The hold together part seems to indicate that not only did Jesus create us, but He also sustains our existence moment by moment.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Genesis 1:1a NIV

 

[Chopper]

I don't know if this will help, but the following notes are copied from Mary Bodie's Pamphlet "God - A - Triunity " The following is a sample of Mary Bodie's teaching on the subject

The first mention of God in the Bible is found in Genesis 1:1. In Hebrew it is "Elohim," the plural form. It is the same throughout the chapter, and it is mentioned fifty-two times; also, in chapter two, God is invariably "Elohim." It is the Name of God as Creator and is derived from the word "Eloah" singular, which means "Power, Might, or Force."

It shows that three Personalities were in evidence in all things requiring force or power as
in creation, rather than one Person "Eloah."

Genesis 1:26 is that the Creator, in making man, says, "Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness." Note the three positive plural pronouns in that verse, "US, OUR, OUR." There are also other instances where the plural pronoun is used in connection with God.

Genesis 11:7. Again, we have the plural relating to God, in Genesis 18. As Abraham was resting in his tent door, "THREE men stood by him: and when he saw THEM, he ran to meet THEM," and addressed the three as one Lord - "My Lord" -

Deut. 6:4 - "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." The word "Lord" is "Adonai" in Hebrew or "Yahweh" (rendered "Jehovah" in the American Revised Version). So we could read it thus, "Jehovah, our Elohim (our Trinity) is one Jehovah."

Psalm 110:1. The distinction between Lord (Adonai or Jehovah) and Jesus as Lord (Adon, Master of Head), "Sit Thou at My right hand, until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool." This verse is quoted verbatim four times in the New Testament. Jesus (Adon) is sitting on His Father's (Adonai's) throne. The one Lord (the Father) invited the other Lord (Christ), when He arose from the dead and ascended into Heaven, to sit upon His throne during this age

 

[Chopper]

Genesis Day 2
1:6-10 IMO it is important to understand the working of God, Elohim, from a Christian perspective, which puts Jesus into the Godhead at creation. I understand Hebrew thought does not do that.

In presenting a few important words as I go along in our studies, I will use "Strongs" interpretive words for help in understanding.

Strongs: God, Elohiym, gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used in the plural thus, especially with the article of the Supreme God.

Strongs: Heaven, shamayim shameh (heaven/heavens). The second form being duel of an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the duel perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve.

The heavens and earth will house the rest of God's creation.

 

[Chopper]

NOTE: Tomorrow's Study; Genesis 1:11-13 Vegetation and Seed.

 

[reba]

Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Jer_2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.
Joh_4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
Joh_4:11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?

Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

 

[jasonc]

Absolutely not! I know that you believe in the Trinity, but Hebrew doctrine does not. That is my complaint, Hebrew theology does not allow Jesus Christ any part of God. I love you Brother Jason, I know that you are in a very difficult situation being a Messianic Jew, adhering to Christian doctrine yet retrieving Hebrew practices to help me and others understand our Scriptures better. My hat is off to you Buddy, because I realize a little about what a difficult mind set that must be.

im using there view for that, there are others areas where I can show they blindly will admit a trinity. we haven't done shemot yet.

the malak YHWH by the gemera is Christ!

 

[reba]

jasonc translation please ... i dont trust wiki...

 

[jasonc]

angel unto the Lord, in jewry that is known as el shaddai and the angel metatron. both are considered to have the Name of God in them. thus for reverence GOD.

 

[jasonc]

I see the idea of light as interesting, why? because jesus said it. light is the concept when God moves and darkness in this part is where god didn't move. we see that in the torah and in the prophets and also in the nt.

 

[brother Paul]

The Hebrew distinguishes a slight difference that has not been noted here (and I am no gap theorist...never even studied the idea) the word of God actually says "day one" not "the first day" and it is a day BEFORE there was a Sun for the earth (which as a planet was not created until the 3rd day) to rotate in relation to...elsewhere it does day the 2nd day, 3rd day, etc.,

the phrase is yom -echad and is very flexible in meaning...the Hebrew word "echad" is not numerically 1 which is "yachid"! Echad is a word that describes when more than one are as one...like when a man and a woman become "echad" flesh and "echad" bone or like the many places the Bible describes the one and only (yachid) God as "echad" (a Unity...like when YHVH is speaking in Isaiah 48 and concludes with verse 16)

So just as yom (translated into "day") can also mean a year, a lifetime, 1000 years, forever, etc., in man's experience and definitely is used in all these ways by Moses, yom-echad can be any length of our "time" as this is God's "yom"....and it is echad (more than one as one...)

 

[jasonc]

The Hebrew distinguishes a slight difference that has not been noted here (and I am no gap theorist...never even studied the idea) the word of God actually says "day one" not "the first day" and it is a day BEFORE there was a Sun for the earth (which as a planet was not created until the 3rd day) to rotate in relation to...elsewhere it does day the 2nd day, 3rd day, etc.,

the phrase is yom -echad and is very flexible in meaning...the Hebrew word "echad" is not numerically 1 which is "yachid" it is a word that describes when more than one are as one...like when a man and a woman become "echad" flesh and "echad" bone or like the many places the Bible describes the one and only (yachid) God as "echad"...

most Hebrew scholars say whenever they have number with yom its day in length. remember that the Hebrews based their shabat on that seventh day. for in six days god created the heavens and the earth. that is what moses was told. so its taken as six days.

So just as yom (translated into "day") can also mean a year, a lifetime, 1000 years, forever, etc., in man's experience and definitely is used in all these ways by Moses, yom-echad can be any length of our "time" as this is God's "yom"....and it is echad (more than one as one...)

 

[Chopper]

Wow. My eyes have just been opened to Gen 1. I think i read it to literaly until i noticed the same thing cannot be seperated twice in 2 different days. lol.

I think im starting to understand scripture for once. Its been a year of struggle now im finally getting something out of it rather than a sore confused head. Im excited.

I think all the scriptures and basic story lines over the last year i have read, is a good help.

There you go my friend, you are not the only one who struggles with understanding the Scriptures. That is the reason that Reba and I decided to go slow. I'm inclined to move too fast, goodness, I've been studying the Bible for almost 40 years....It was Reba that suggested we move slow, along with others. A good plan is to invite the Holy Spirit to help you understand, and He will.

 

[jasonc]

genesis 2 is a rehash with additions to the story. Hebrews at times do that in the bible. kings and chronicles come to mind.