“You gotta be born again first to be savedâ€Â!

[ourfamily1]

“You gotta be born again first to be savedâ€Â!

Man’s spirit was Fathered by God and Mother Wisdom on the 4th Creation Day. The one we know as M----- today was one of many billions of "stars" (sons). That was his first birth as a spirit child. Next a few thousand years went by and it was time to place him in this generation. The Husbandman-Father then planted him in the womb of the daughter He selected. His earthly mother then gave birth to him A SECOND TIME in a flesh and blood body! All humans are BORN AGAIN naturally! So when old M---- takes that last gulp of air .... you cannot STOP the events that follow:

Ecclesiastes 12:7. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (M-----) shall return unto God who gave it.

Hosea 13: 14. I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

Ecclesiastes 4:2. Wherefore I praised the dead which are already dead more than the living which are yet alive. 3. Yea, better is he than both they, which hath not yet been, who hath not seen the evil work that is done under the sun.

What if he rises as a "prodigal son"? (And it appears that is entirely probable). What then?

Revelation 20:12. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

M----- will get a FREE GIFT despite what you and I think of him from his Father!

Romans 5:18. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21. That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Face-to-face and eye-to-eye with Jesus and the Father, we won't have to worry about M------ shennanigans and warping. M----- will be "made perfect" in that environment! And he will be a "new creature" with a new name and spirit body! I do not know what the earthly version of M----- looks like, but up there you will not recognize him!

Isaiah 45:21. Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Luke 15:20. And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. 21. And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. 22. But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: 23. And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: 24. For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Hebrews 12:22. But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23. To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24. And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

I am not prepared to doubt M-----’s Father. He is not too big and too warped to be "made over again"!

Isaiah 28:15. Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: 16. Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. 17. Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. 18. And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. 19. From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.

Ezekiel 20:32. And that which cometh into your mind shall not be at all, that ye say, We will be as the heathen, as the families of the countries, to serve wood and stone. 33. As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you: 34. And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out. 35. And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face. 36. Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God. 37. And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

Ezekiel 36:25. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be My people, and I will be your God. 29. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses:

M----- might huff and puff at this message board, but we all have to take that last breath and rise!

John,
ourfamily1 : :

 

[ourfamily1]

Two Births ....

Two Births ....


Birth of living spirits of men

Men are God's "stars"

Genesis 1:15. And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18. And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Genesis 22:17. That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; 18. And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

Isaiah 66:7. Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. 8. Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. 9. Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.

Secrets of Enoch 25 1 I commanded in the very lowest parts, that visible things should come down from invisible, and Adoil came down very great, and I beheld 2 him, and lo! he had a belly of great light. And I said to him: 'Become undone, Adoil, and let 3 the visible come out of thee.' And he came undone, and a great light came out. And I was in the midst of the great light, and as there is born light from light, there came forth a great age, and showed all creation, which I had thought to 4 create. And I saw that it was good. And I placed for myself a throne, and took; my seat on it, and said to the light: 'Go thou up higher and fix thyself high above the throne, and be 5 a foundation to the highest things.' And above the light there is nothing else, and then I bent up and looked up from my throne.


A second birth on earth in the flesh

Matthew 23:9. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Isaiah 45:9. Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? 10. Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth? 11. Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. 12. I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

Hebrews 2:14. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15. And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Every human being that comes from a womb has a second birth in flesh and blood! In death only the flesh dies and God's spirit son or daughter is drawn back to the Father!

Ecclesiastes 12:7. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Can you say, "Amen"?!

John,

ourfamily1 : :

 

[lecoop]

Please tell us, what part of the rich man "saw" Lazarus in paradise? What part of the rich man was there in hell? What part of the rich man was told to "remember?" It surely could not be the body, for that was decomposing in the grave. Can you enlighten us?

Coop

 

[ourfamily1]

Glad you asked!

This is the human condition:

Matthew 13:25. But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28. He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29. But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Every human (wheat seed) comes bundled with tares (devils) as a result of Satan's work. God said, "Let BOTH GROW TOGETHER until the harvest". This brings us to Matthew 12:43-45.

Matthew 12:43. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

In this case one man could have had as many as 8 devils bundled with him. Here is why devils in the parable are called "rich men".

Isaiah 13:12. I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

Malachi 3:6. For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. 17. And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. 18. Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

All of God's children are precious treasure to Him, maybe not to you! Lazarus was the "good seed" and the devil with him was like a "rich man" for possessing God's jewel, Lazarus! At the time of the harvest God said, "Bring Lazarus to Heaven, but leave that "tare" in the pit to be burned. Light is easy when God Himself is the Teacher. It is His BOOK, and He knows all the Word paths He put in it! Thanks.

John,
ourfamily1 : :

 

[lecoop]

Re: Glad you asked!

This is the human condition:

Matthew 13:25. But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28. He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29. But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Every human (wheat seed) comes bundled with tares (devils) as a result of Satan's work. God said, "Let BOTH GROW TOGETHER until the harvest". This brings us to Matthew 12:43-45.

Matthew 12:43. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

In this case one man could have had as many as 8 devils bundled with him. Here is why devils in the parable are called "rich men".

Isaiah 13:12. I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

Malachi 3:6. For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. 17. And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. 18. Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

All of God's children are precious treasure to Him, maybe not to you! Lazarus was the "good seed" and the devil with him was like a "rich man" for possessing God's jewel, Lazarus! At the time of the harvest God said, "Bring Lazarus to Heaven, but leave that "tare" in the pit to be burned. Light is easy when God Himself is the Teacher. It is His BOOK, and He knows all the Word paths He put in it! Thanks.

John,
ourfamily1 : :

Groan! I guess I will have to spell it out, for you missed it by a country mile.

Luke 16
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

Please note that these are two human beings. One is even named, so this is not a parable, but a true story, of two real people. The poor man was laid at the rich man's gate.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

Please note, that both these men died. Also note, this is NOT and end time scenario, since these two died about 2000 years ago. One was taken to Abraham's bosom, and the other somewhere else. It is written that the rice man was buried, but we can suppose both men were buried. That is, their dead bodies were buried! But please note, it is written that the beggar, Lazarus, was carried away. This is speaking of the spirit and soul of the man, not the body.

23 And in hell he [the rich man] lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Please note that the rich man, not in his body, for that was buried, could be tormented, and could see. In fact, could see from hell over into Abraham's bosom, or "paradise" (at that time). So, what part of the human was seeing and feeling? OF course, not his body, for that was buried. It was his spirit man that was seeing.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Now we see that this rich man could also think, reason, and speak. Again, we know that this is the spirit of the man, not the body that was buried.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Here we see that the rich man also has a memory! He can remember.

From this story, we can prove that the spirit of a man, can see, think, hear, speak, and remember, without benefit of the body. We also see that at death, there are two different destinations for the human spirit: either heaven or hell.

Believe it!

Coop

 

[ourfamily1]

Please note that these are two human beings. One is even named, so this is not a parable, but a true story, of two real people. The poor man was laid at the rich man's gate.

You are wrong! It is a parable! You cannot view a parable with your "natural mind" as you do, because you will not get the right message!

Mark 4:9. And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. 10. And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. 11. And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12. That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. 13. And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

1 Corinthians 2: 7. But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8. Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9. But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

John,
ourfamily1 : :

 

[Bick]

John's quote:
"Man’s spirit was Fathered by God and Mother Wisdom on the 4th Creation Day. The one we know as M----- today was one of many billions of "stars" (sons). That was his first birth as a spirit child. Next a few thousand years went by and it was time to place him in this generation. The Husbandman-Father then planted him in the womb of the daughter He selected. His earthly mother then gave birth to him A SECOND TIME in a flesh and blood body! All humans are BORN AGAIN naturally! So when old M---- takes that last gulp of air .... you cannot STOP the events that follow: "

MY RESPONSE: What is above is some man's idea. IT IS NOT SCRIPTURAL---NOT IN THE BIBLE!
IT IS TO BE IGNORED.

 

[lecoop]

Please note that these are two human beings. One is even named, so this is not a parable, but a true story, of two real people. The poor man was laid at the rich man's gate.

You are wrong! It is a parable! You cannot view a parable with your "natural mind" as you do, because you will not get the right message!

Mark 4:9. And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. 10. And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. 11. And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12. That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. 13. And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

1 Corinthians 2: 7. But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8. Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9. But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

John,
ourfamily1 : :

If you say it is a parable, then can you ignore it? The parable of the sower was a parable, but every part of it was TRUTH! Men plant seeds. They expect a harvest.

In the same way, the rich man died and went to hell. What part of him was there? Of course, his spirit man: the real person. In the same way, Lazarus died and his spirit also went to paradise. It is God's word, and it matters little of you call it a parable! It is still TRUTH! Can you receive truth?

Coop

 

[destiny]

If you say it is a parable, then can you ignore it? The parable of the sower was a parable, but every part of it was TRUTH! Men plant seeds. They expect a harvest.

In the same way, the rich man died and went to hell. What part of him was there? Of course, his spirit man: the real person. In the same way, Lazarus died and his spirit also went to paradise. It is God's word, and it matters little of you call it a parable! It is still TRUTH! Can you receive truth?

Amen to that simplistic yet profound truth, Lecoop!