2 beast, two Babylons

[Douglas Summers]

Since your being very pointed with your question to determine the state of one's beliefs, then I must ask if you have heard the law come forth from Zion as described in Isaiah 2:1-4 and Micah 4:1-4? What is your teaching on these particular scriptures?

The prophecies of Isaiah and Micah's visions are the same as Christ's. It is the same final kingdom to come in Revelation 21:9-27. It is the stone in Danial 2:44-45 and is set up at the end of the Tribulation. It will be the end of the times of the Gentiles (over Israel) Luke 21:24. You sounded annoyed that I asked Glory what she believed? One's belief does not make them a Christian, what makes one a Christian is who he believes in. A Christian should not be afraid to share, and an apostate is not afraid to deceive. Both are ready to tell, but only one lead to life. Doctrine tells a lot about which one is which.

 

[ezrider]

The prophecies of Isaiah and Micah's visions are the same as Christ's. It is the same final kingdom to come in Revelation 21:9-27. It is the stone in Danial 2:44-45 and is set up at the end of the Tribulation. It will be the end of the times of the Gentiles (over Israel) Luke 21:24. You sounded annoyed that I asked Glory what she believed? One's belief does not make them a Christian, what makes one a Christian is who he believes in. A Christian should not be afraid to share, and an apostate is not afraid to deceive. Both are ready to tell, but only one lead to life. Doctrine tells a lot about which one is which.

I was not neccessarily annoyed that you asked for_his_glory what she believed, it's when she answered your first question with a no, that you challenged her answer using a specific scripture, so I simple used a couple scriptures of my own to determine what you beleive. By your response, I would have to conclude that you believe Isaiah 2:1-4 and Micah 4:1-5 to still be prophetic of a future time; so when you say that one's beliefs does not make them a Christian, what makes one a Christian is who he believes in. So how does a Christian come to believe in Jesus, yet deny the works that he performed? How can you be a follower of Christ if his law has not yet come forth from Zion?

 

[for_his_glory]

Glory, I find no where in Scripture where God says the disobedient have "lost the right to be called God's chosen people"? Here is what God told Israel: (Deut. 30:1-20) Be sure to read this, especially verse 4 & 5. To get the full heart of God, you should study Deuteronomy chapters 27-30. God has always, I mean always left Israel with a path back home. The only people lost are those who chose to do so. I believe Nebuchadnezzar was also saved by God (Dan. 3:26-4:3). You have missed all the grace and power of His mercy to save all Israel (this is all of Israel) not The Israel of God, ( of which are the faithful) but The God of Israel. (Jer. 31:31-40). Even after the sins King David piled up, Christ said, "He is a man after my own heart", (1 Sam. 13:14) (Acts 13:22), And even promised A continual throne that is irrevocable. (2 Sam. 7:4-19) (Psalms 89:20-37)
Study ( Ezk. 33:10-20). This prophecy is already in progress and started around 1948. Study these scriptures for I could fill this post up with a multitude of God's word that proves this, along with actual fulfilled prophecies. The joy of teaching something you have perceived is not from the Holy Spirit, nor is it joy, but it is the pride of man and void of Spiritual grace but full of talking points that do not magnify the Lord our God, but the author of interpretation. (Me, myself and I).

The called and gifted teacher / pastor always glorifies and presents Christ, and hides himself.

Here is the scripture you could not find:
Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. 7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.

Deuteronomy 30 is written after God explains the blessings and cursing in chapters 27 and 28. The blessings are for those who are obedient to God and His commands that walk according to His will. The curse is to those of disobedience that seek after other gods as many of the Jews followed after the paganism of Judaism and never returned back to God. These are they of the tribe of Dan that never repented of their sin of unbelief and which God as already rejected.

Rev 7:1-8 These servants are the generational 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel, except for the tribe of Dan as they fell to idol worship and allowed God to be removed from them, Judges 18:30; 1 Kings12:25-33. To keep it twelve tribes since Dan is not mentioned in vs. 4-8 the tribe of Joseph appears twice, once under his own name and once under the name of his son Issachar/Manasseh. Judah is mentioned first as Messiah was to come from the lineage of David.

God is longsuffering and patient that none should perish and has always made a way for those of disobedience to come back to Him by His free gift of grace that by faith we will be saved, but many refuse as they are lovers of self and follow after other Gods like the tribe of Dan rejecting the true God of all creation. If you notice in Rev 7:1-8 that God has saved a remnant, even a generational remnant out of the twelve tribes of Israel that have always been faithful and obedient to His commands. Those who whose names are not found written in the book of life, Jew or Gentile, will be judged and cast into the lake of fire, Rev 20:15.

 

[for_his_glory]

The prophecies of Isaiah and Micah's visions are the same as Christ's. It is the same final kingdom to come in Revelation 21:9-27. It is the stone in Danial 2:44-45 and is set up at the end of the Tribulation. It will be the end of the times of the Gentiles (over Israel) Luke 21:24. You sounded annoyed that I asked Glory what she believed? One's belief does not make them a Christian, what makes one a Christian is who he believes in. A Christian should not be afraid to share, and an apostate is not afraid to deceive. Both are ready to tell, but only one lead to life. Doctrine tells a lot about which one is which.

I don't think my belief has to come to any trial by man for God alone will judge me for what I believe teach to others. I believe the doctrines of Christ by my faith in Him as what is revealed to me by Gods word and not that of mans traditional doctrines handed down throughout the ages. Just because we might not always agree with each other does not make the other a nonbeliever in Christ, it just means we need to be growing in wisdom and knowledge given solely by the Holy Spirit that speaks through others as we use Spiritual discernment to know truth from error.

 

[Douglas Summers]

so when you say that one's beliefs does not make them a Christian, what makes one a Christian is who he believes in. So how does a Christian come to believe in Jesus, yet deny the works that he performed? How can you be a follower of Christ if his law has not yet come forth from Zion?

Not everyone who calls me Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven (study the parable of The Wheat and Tares) in Matthew chapter 13. Even Satan believes and knows the Christ. There is a difference between acknowledging one's authority and accepting ones authority. A Christian is a born again believer. There is no born again believer that denies the works of Christ, for the works of Christ are proof of who he is.

The Second question, Did you ask me that question as something you believe different about the question that I answered to about Isaiah and Micah, because I do not understand the question?

 

[Douglas Summers]

Here is the scripture you could not find:
Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. 7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.

I see this as a warning and a chastisement to Israel, but it is not a castaway (Hosea 2:1-13) restoration (Hosea 2:14:-23).
Deuteronomy 30 is written after God explains the blessings and cursing in chapters 27 and 28. The blessings are for those who are obedient to God and His commands that walk according to His will. The curse is to those of disobedience that seek after other gods as many of the Jews followed after the paganism of Judaism and never returned back to God. These are they of the tribe of Dan that never repented of their sin of unbelief and which God as already rejected. This is a warning to the all Israel, not individuals. Dan was not listed in the 12 in revelation, replaced by Levi.. And neither is Ephraim which is replaced by the tribe of Joseph.

I don't think my belief has to come to any trial by man for God alone will judge me for what I believe teach to others. I believe the doctrines of Christ by my faith in Him as what is revealed to me by Gods word and not that of mans traditional doctrines handed down throughout the ages. Just because we might not always agree with each other does not make the other a nonbeliever in Christ, it just means we need to be growing in wisdom and knowledge given solely by the Holy Spirit that speaks through others as we use Spiritual discernment to know truth from error.
You are not on trial by me? But if we both claim that we are called by the Lord (and I rest in that calling and election). Why would The Lord teach us two different doctrines? The Lord has answered many prayers and visions and Supernatural interventions for me to claim that I have no fellowship with the Lord.

 

[eddif]

Colossians 2:16 KJV
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

At times an OT / OC example is a shadow of who Christ Jesus was

Some descriptions are shadows. Real in physical terms, but mere shadows when it comes to the reality of Jesus..

Starting a conversation about the kingdom of David is shadowy when compared with Christ's kingdom, but parallel enough to be used. I am not intelligent enough to talk about mental pictures of shadows. Christ being the first fruit of the dead is the reality of dead seed being planted to produce a living plant (a plant capable of producing more seeds).

Rednecks have to shut up about here (from lack of words / concepts).

eddif

 

[ezrider]

Not everyone who calls me Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven (study the parable of The Wheat and Tares) in Matthew chapter 13. Even Satan believes and knows the Christ. There is a difference between acknowledging one's authority and accepting ones authority. A Christian is a born again believer. There is no born again believer that denies the works of Christ, for the works of Christ are proof of who he is.

The Second question, Did you ask me that question as something you believe different about the question that I answered to about Isaiah and Micah, because I do not understand the question?

From your initial response, it appeared to me that you believe the two scriptures I posted for you have not yet come to pass, that these scriptures are still prophetic of a future kingdom. Is that what you believe, or did I missunderstand what you responded with?

The law of Christ was the law that came forth from Zion; so my second question was premised that if you believe these scripture reference a future time, then how can you be a follower of Christ if His word has not yet come forth?

 

[Douglas Summers]

From your initial response, it appeared to me that you believe the two scriptures I posted for you have not yet come to pass, that these scriptures are still prophetic of a future kingdom. Is that what you believe, or did I missunderstand what you responded with?

The law of Christ was the law that came forth from Zion; so my second question was premised that if you believe these scripture reference a future time, then how can you be a follower of Christ if His word has not yet come forth?

I'am not a follower of Christ, I'am a part of Christ as are all born again believers. We do not leave Him at the church building or keep or leave Him in a book. We do not wait till we are in trouble to search Him out, we do not boast of our fellowship, but grieved of an unbelieving world that mocks God and tramples us underfoot.
Yes, the Kingdom is Spiritual and visible in that it will need no light from the Sun, but will be visible by His glory and Holiness alone, and that visible Kingdom is yet future as Scripture affirms. For we are not at home here, but sojourners as from another far country. The doctrines of men are strange fire to us. But the real question is, are you ready for His coming and our gathering unto Him before Almighty God's wrath upon the unbelieving and disobedient?

 

[eddif]

Matthew 28:19 KJV
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Repent (some people of the world still
Need to repent - big world out there still).

Receive Jesus for the remission of sins ( some have repented, but not seen what Jesus did).

Receive Jesus that they might see eternity ( in concept and reality).

Receive the Holy Spirit that they might be empowered to witness (also led into knowledge).

A person preaching repentance is supposed to be working with those preaching Christ Jesus as the source of eternal life, as well as those Holy Spirit folks.

The Holy Spirit knocks at the door of our life. We dwell in unity by power received that we may witness. Not miss others callings. We ain't all the same. Walking together is tough.


eddif

 

[ezrider]

The doctrines of men are strange fire to us. But the real question is, are you ready for His coming and our gathering unto Him before Almighty God's wrath upon the unbelieving and disobedient?

When you say the real question is, are you ready for his coming? Then again, I must ask what you do to make yourself ready? You see, those who were called before the mountain of God, under Mt. Sinai in the wilderness, they were instructed to make themseves ready for the coming of the Lord: But we are not called before the mountain that burned with fire, we are called before Mt.Zion. So which mountain calls to you that you should make yourself ready for the lake of fire?

 

[eddif]

LOL
Reba has not aurthorized me to post this. It is however one great post that uses scripture to call for the glorious church (which we are).

http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...ontradicting-beliefs.44404/page-3#post-743711

This previous thread was finally locked. I want this thread to remain active. We are not fighting against flesh and blood.

eddif

 

[Douglas Summers]

When you say the real question is, are you ready for his coming? Then again, I must ask what you do to make yourself ready?

I'am not ready, because He is not ready. For we do not know the day or hour, but we do know the season when He will come (Matt. 24:26-51). We are always looking for the Lord and do not run after the world.
The Church was not called to the Mt. of Sinai. The Church was called at the Cross of Christ. Israel was given a choice at Mt. Sinai. God asked them is they would obey His voice and keep His covenant, but instead of asking God to continue in His grace that saved them and led them out of Egypt, they said they would do what ever God commanded. ( Exod. 19:5-8) For the blood upon the door post that saved all that applied it in Egypt for their first born was by faith looking forward to the Cross of Christ (Exod. 12:18-30). Paul explains to them in (Hebrews 12:18-29). God in Jesus Christ is Mt. Zion (Mt Zion is another name for Jerusalem, The Throne of God). Therefore they should come to the grace of God at Jerusalem (*Mt. Zion) and not under Law at Mt. Sinai.

 

[for_his_glory]

I see this as a warning and a chastisement to Israel, but it is not a castaway (Hosea 2:1-13) restoration (Hosea 2:14:-23).
Deuteronomy 30 is written after God explains the blessings and cursing in chapters 27 and 28. The blessings are for those who are obedient to God and His commands that walk according to His will. The curse is to those of disobedience that seek after other gods as many of the Jews followed after the paganism of Judaism and never returned back to God. These are they of the tribe of Dan that never repented of their sin of unbelief and which God as already rejected. This is a warning to the all Israel, not individuals. Dan was not listed in the 12 in revelation, replaced by Levi.. And neither is Ephraim which is replaced by the tribe of Joseph.

I don't think my belief has to come to any trial by man for God alone will judge me for what I believe teach to others. I believe the doctrines of Christ by my faith in Him as what is revealed to me by Gods word and not that of mans traditional doctrines handed down throughout the ages. Just because we might not always agree with each other does not make the other a nonbeliever in Christ, it just means we need to be growing in wisdom and knowledge given solely by the Holy Spirit that speaks through others as we use Spiritual discernment to know truth from error.
You are not on trial by me? But if we both claim that we are called by the Lord (and I rest in that calling and election). Why would The Lord teach us two different doctrines? The Lord has answered many prayers and visions and Supernatural interventions for me to claim that I have no fellowship with the Lord.

You do make me feel like I am on trail as you persecute me by what I say and question my relationship with Christ. I can claim the same as in answered prayers, visions and Supernatural interventions. I do not know you on a personal basis nor do I know how you study and who teaches you just as you do not know the same of me. This is why we share and discuss with each other of what we believe to be truth. Then let it up to the other to search it out by taking the scriptures given comparing OT with NT, tying in the history and culture of the times and relating prophecy given to that of not only the past, but the present and the future. I do not know what level of learning you have as well as you know not mine. So big deal if we do not always agree, that does not make us any less a Spiritually born again child of God when we do disagree as we are ever learning as none can exhaust the word of God.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'am not ready, because He is not ready. For we do not know the day or hour, but we do know the season when He will come (Matt. 24:26-51). We are always looking for the Lord and do not run after the world.
The Church was not called to the Mt. of Sinai. The Church was called at the Cross of Christ. Israel was given a choice at Mt. Sinai. God asked them is they would obey His voice and keep His covenant, but instead of asking God to continue in His grace that saved them and led them out of Egypt, they said they would do what ever God commanded. ( Exod. 19:5-8) For the blood upon the door post that saved all that applied it in Egypt for their first born was by faith looking forward to the Cross of Christ (Exod. 12:18-30). Paul explains to them in (Hebrews 12:18-29). God in Jesus Christ is Mt. Zion (Mt Zion is another name for Jerusalem, The Throne of God). Therefore they should come to the grace of God at Jerusalem (*Mt. Zion) and not under Law at Mt. Sinai.

You say you are not ready, because He is not ready. For we do not know the day or the hour, but we do know the season when he will come and then you use Matthew 24:26-51. The season is the same as it was in the days of Noah, Matthew 24:37-39, as they knew not of a flood for it never rained before that time of the flood, Genesis 2:5,6 and probably mocked Noah for building an ark. They believed not of that faith Noah was preaching and were taken by the flood as they were not prepared for it for they knew not of it coming. This is the same with those today that know not the day or the hour of Christ return as they will not be ready for when He does come and will be taken over like a thief that comes in the night. As God sent and overtook those who were not prepared for the flood so will God send fire down in the end of days to those who refuse to repent as they will be devoured by it, 2Peter 2:3-6.

If you are not ready before you physically die or still alive at His coming then you too will be taken by that of the flood of God's mighty wrath that will fall on those who refuse to repent as they believe not the faith of Christ in others that preach the Gospels to them as they have no ears to hear that of what the Holy Spirit is speaking through those who are anointed by God to carry the Gospel out to the nations. Jesus is not ready for God is not ready yet to send Him as many more will come to faith in Christ during the time of Gods mighty wrath as they refuse the mark of the beast as they will finally have ears to hear and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. God will pour out a greater anointing in the end of days, Joel 2:28-32; Acts 2:16-21. Jesus did tell us when He would return as He gave us signs of His coming in Matthew 24:27-31 and we had better be prepared before His coming.

 

[Douglas Summers]

You do make me feel like I am on trail as you persecute me by what I say and question my relationship with Christ. I can claim the same as in answered prayers, visions and Supernatural interventions. I do not know you on a personal basis nor do I know how you study and who teaches you just as you do not know the same of me. This is why we share and discuss with each other of what we believe to be truth. Then let it up to the other to search it out by taking the scriptures given comparing OT with NT, tying in the history and culture of the times and relating prophecy given to that of not only the past, but the present and the future. I do not know what level of learning you have as well as you know not mine. So big deal if we do not always agree, that does not make us any less a Spiritually born again child of God when we do disagree as we are ever learning as none can exhaust the word of God.

You should not feel persecuted if you are sure of what you claim, but we should search ourselves to see if what we teach is so. The Lord let me know when I was in error. The most fallible and weak Christian who trusts Christ to save him, has the same standing before Christ as the most illustrious saint. For it is faith alone that confers our place with Christ. Now our state is another matter. We are not as instantly mature in our state as we are in our standing (saved). A person can error in doctrine or what they teach and still trust in Christ with assurance. But God will not leave a self willed or rebellious child that hinders His body, of which we are. Everyone has an appointed time to die, but many are taken before that time.

 

[Douglas Summers]

The season is the same as it was in the days of Noah, Matthew 24:37-39, as they knew not of a flood for it never rained before that time of the flood, Genesis 2:5,6 and probably mocked Noah for building an ark.

Yes, they did not consider God (GEN. 6:4-7) And that is the warning Christ gives to those who did not believe Him and the self righteous religious leaders. But Noah knew the time, for God told Him. Genesis Chapter 7.
If you are not ready before you physically die or still alive at His coming then you too will be taken by that of the flood of God's mighty wrath that will fall on those who refuse to repent as they not the faith of Christ.
I told you already, I'm ready when He is ready, He is not ready so neither am I. I look for Christ any time, but that does not stop me to pastor / teacher to those that will listen.. Are you paying any attention to our country and it's rapid decline and those who rule it along with the nominal and worldly church. It is sad how they have portrayed and used Christ for self material benefits and notoriety?

 

[Douglas Summers]

When you say the real question is, are you ready for his coming? Then again, I must ask what you do to make yourself ready?

EZ, The question was to you. Is it well with your soul. As for me, I'am unmovable in His assurance but at times I'am hindered by the flesh interfering with the joy of my salvation.

 

[for_his_glory]

You should not feel persecuted if you are sure of what you claim, but we should search ourselves to see if what we teach is so. The Lord let me know when I was in error. The most fallible and weak Christian who trusts Christ to save him, has the same standing before Christ as the most illustrious saint. For it is faith alone that confers our place with Christ. Now our state is another matter. We are not as instantly mature in our state as we are in our standing (saved). A person can error in doctrine or what they teach and still trust in Christ with assurance. But God will not leave a self willed or rebellious child that hinders His body, of which we are. Everyone has an appointed time to die, but many are taken before that time.

Like I said Douglas, neither one of us knows each other nor each others walk with Christ or each others study habits and how we come to believe what we do believe so we need to drop all this foolishness between us and get back to the topic of the OP. If we do not agree with each other then it's no big deal as I ask no one to agree with me, but to take the scriptures everyone gives and study them for themselves through the Holy Spirit who gives us all wisdom and understanding as He alone needs to be our teacher as the Holy Spirit speaks directly to us or through others and it's up to us to discern that of what we hear. God bless you Douglas as we both search for truth

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, they did not consider God (GEN. 6:4-7) And that is the warning Christ gives to those who did not believe Him and the self righteous religious leaders. But Noah knew the time, for God told Him. Genesis Chapter 7.
If you are not ready before you physically die or still alive at His coming then you too will be taken by that of the flood of God's mighty wrath that will fall on those who refuse to repent as they not the faith of Christ.
I told you already, I'm ready when He is ready, He is not ready so neither am I. I look for Christ any time, but that does not stop me to pastor / teacher to those that will listen.. Are you paying any attention to our country and it's rapid decline and those who rule it along with the nominal and worldly church. It is sad how they have portrayed and used Christ for self material benefits and notoriety?

Yes, I agree Noah knew the time as God did tell him. We too know the timing of Christ return, Matthew 24:27-31; Rev 1:7, but not the day nor the hour, Matthew 24:36. I did misunderstand what you said about not being ready and thank you that you explained that in a better way as we always need to be about our Fathers business until Christ does return. Believe you me I am paying very close attention not only to our country, USA, but all nations around the world.

Whether in our lifetime or not it will not be long until the son of perdition, being the greatest false prophet of all, 2Thessalonians 2:1-12, in whom the beast out of the sea who is the governing militant power behind all the nations economic, religious and political system gives power to the beast out of the earth who will take his seat on the throne sitting on the very Temple Mount that Gods Shekinah glory once filled the former Temple that was built under Ezra’s leadership that will never be built again by hands, Rev 13; Matthew 24:1,2.

Even now he works his iniquities, 2Thessalonians 2:7, as he always has from the time of Babylon to the coming of mystery Babylon that will be revealed to all in the end of days. When you study Daniel Chapter 7 and understand the meaning of the four beast (the fourth beast received a deadly wound, but the deadly wound was healed ,Rev 13:3), the little horn and the ten horns then mystery Babylon will be revealed to you as what and who the abomination is that causes desolation that we are warned to flee from, Matthew 24:15,16, that even now works her iniquity and will be destroyed in the end of days.