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23 Miutes In Hell

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turnorburn

turnorburn

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http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...89&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0#


turnorburn


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Before I donate that much of my time, of my life, I like to know why?
Why exactly do you think I should watch this?
Convince me. :)
 
NOt everyone can watch a video - you should give a short synopsis.

I find Hell to be the whole reason why Christianity is so not-believable.

The very concept is so human, so petty, so mean and spiteful that I can never, even for a moment, assign it to a God of Love or Mercy. Nor even can I find it believable to assign it to a god of great wisdom outside of Love or Mercy. It just makes no sense to me.

Burning for eternity - what, for the love of reason, is the point of that?
 
Rhea said:
I find Hell to be the whole reason why Christianity is so not-believable.

Burning for eternity - what, for the love of reason, is the point of that?
Click to expand...

Modern Christianity is not spot-on believable for many reasons.
Sure, Hell in it's eternity is one of them.
Hell was once explained to me by a preacher as this - A little tiny bird with a little tiny beak sits on top of this solid granite rock. This rock is exactly one mile high, by one mile wide, by one mile deep.
When that bird with that little tiny beak finishes breaking that rock into dust, that is forever, that is eternity.
Problem is, there is another exact rock underneath that one...
And so on...
Really makes no sense does it?
Forever, what really is it?
 
we should preach easy believism to fill more seats. I mean after all God needs to be more PC anyway we wouldn't want him to offend anyone.
 
Rageprophet said:
we should preach easy believism to fill more seats. I mean after all God needs to be more PC anyway we wouldn't want him to offend anyone.
Click to expand...

This forum is changing more of the ungodly are coming here to rebel so I brought something just for them.. a place where they can fellowship with others of like mind, if on the other hand if they come here seeking salvation then by all means stay.

Welcome to Happy Atheist Forum

turnorburn
 
Rageprophet said:
we should preach easy believism to fill more seats. I mean after all God needs to be more PC anyway we wouldn't want him to offend anyone.
Click to expand...

I realize this is sarcasm, and it exemplifies what believers often do not "get" about non-believers. It implies that the non-believer is arrogantly trying to make the god conform to our vision.

But this is not what the non-believer is saying, and the sarcasm about "PC" simply shows the lack of empathy and calls the unbeliever's reasons "stupid". This may feel good to you, to call me ridiculous and foolish and taunt with a sneer at being PC, but it does not address the actual point of the unbeliever.


If a thing just doesn't make any sense, then a person cannot "decide" to believe in it. Very many atheists are in this position. We hear the story and it doesn't "compute". It's not really that we are rejecting it as something we don't like, we can't even get that far because it just makes no sense. We are not able to summon any feeling about it whatsoever because it appears not-possible.

Typically, at this point, the believer pulls the "rebellion" card. But think about this without a sneer for a minute. If I said something to you that seemed utterly contradictory or impossible, could you summon a sense of belief in it at will?

For example, if it were a sunny day where the air was dry and the forecast was stable, and the place was not known for tornadoes, if I were to come running and say "a tornado is imminent!!!" and tell you to leave your business and valuables unlocked and run for a culvert, would you be ABLE to summon a sense of urgency about it? Or if were were mountain climbing and I claimed that this 15,000-foot mountain peak was known to be subject to tsunamis, would you be able to look at me and think, "that could be true!"? Or would you probably find yourself unable to believe me. Not unwilling, but flat out UNABLE. What if I said that I had just heard of an airplane that circumnavigated the globe powered by breastmilk. Wouldn't you just blink and try to wrap your head around it and be unable to picture it?

I'm not saying that I feel your god is like a claim of a tsunami on a mountaintop, I'm not trying to be disrespectful by my analogy, I am trying to show what it can feel like to be unable to have a belief in some claim or description.

This is not a matter of rebellion, it is a matter of not being able to picture this thing as happening.

My post was not to claim that Christianity "ought" to be more anything. My post was to describe my reaction to what Christianity is described as being. And to me, the description of a burning hell having been created by a loving god does not compute. I cannot picture it, cannot make myself imagine its existence. It leaves my mind not angry, but utterly blank.
 
...and what is it that the video shows? Do you care to share a short description? Or is this message only for those with high bandwidth?
 
Rhea said:
I realize this is sarcasm, and it exemplifies what believers often do not "get" about non-believers. It implies that the non-believer is arrogantly trying to make the god conform to our vision.

But this is not what the non-believer is saying, and the sarcasm about "PC" simply shows the lack of empathy and calls the unbeliever's reasons "stupid". This may feel good to you, to call me ridiculous and foolish and taunt with a sneer at being PC, but it does not address the actual point of the unbeliever.


If a thing just doesn't make any sense, then a person cannot "decide" to believe in it. Very many atheists are in this position. We hear the story and it doesn't "compute". It's not really that we are rejecting it as something we don't like, we can't even get that far because it just makes no sense. We are not able to summon any feeling about it whatsoever because it appears not-possible.

Typically, at this point, the believer pulls the "rebellion" card. But think about this without a sneer for a minute. If I said something to you that seemed utterly contradictory or impossible, could you summon a sense of belief in it at will?

For example, if it were a sunny day where the air was dry and the forecast was stable, and the place was not known for tornadoes, if I were to come running and say "a tornado is imminent!!!" and tell you to leave your business and valuables unlocked and run for a culvert, would you be ABLE to summon a sense of urgency about it? Or if were were mountain climbing and I claimed that this 15,000-foot mountain peak was known to be subject to tsunamis, would you be able to look at me and think, "that could be true!"? Or would you probably find yourself unable to believe me. Not unwilling, but flat out UNABLE. What if I said that I had just heard of an airplane that circumnavigated the globe powered by breastmilk. Wouldn't you just blink and try to wrap your head around it and be unable to picture it?

I'm not saying that I feel your god is like a claim of a tsunami on a mountaintop, I'm not trying to be disrespectful by my analogy, I am trying to show what it can feel like to be unable to have a belief in some claim or description.

This is not a matter of rebellion, it is a matter of not being able to picture this thing as happening.

My post was not to claim that Christianity "ought" to be more anything. My post was to describe my reaction to what Christianity is described as being. And to me, the description of a burning hell having been created by a loving god does not compute. I cannot picture it, cannot make myself imagine its existence. It leaves my mind not angry, but utterly blank.
Click to expand...

After reading this, I can honestly say that having a non-believer like you here is a good thing. The intellectual challenge that you present is (I think) both helpful and interesting.

I'll have more to say on this post later, but every Christian here should READ this post and try to understand the position of a firm unbeliever. It is only by doing so, that I believe we can reach Rhea and those like her. Rhea THINKS and does not just go thru life FEELING. The thinkers are hard to get thru to, but once you win them over - you have them forever - and they can then go on to reach other thinkers. :yes
 
Pizzaguy said:
After reading this, I can honestly say that having a non-believer like you here is a good thing. The intellectual challenge that you present is (I think) both helpful and interesting.
Click to expand...

Thanks, PizzaGuy. :) Sometimes we all stumble with a difference in "language" and it takes some perseverance to uncover the truly different points of view.
 
Pretty poorly done "video". It opens to a minute of painting of hell and screams of the tormented. THEN, Bill is talking, but he's in the middle of a speech/teaching.

This is no way to teach ANYTHING.
 
One of the comments brings up a good point.

'Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
'And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
'And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.'


So, did god change His mind? Did he decide to give "one who rose from the dead" a try?



(From Luke 16:19-31)
 
I cannot preach a watered down version of the bible so nonbelievers can digest it, sorry.

If someone does not believe in the urgency of the situation then again I apologize but it is God that deals with the heart all I have to do is be obedient and put forth a warning if no one listens that is between them and God, but what I will absolutely not do is change the gospel so it is more easily palatable to the lost.

Jesus and the Disciples all preached a message that was so lovable and cuddly that they were murdered for it, what possible justice could I do if I took that gospel cleaned it up made it less offensive for everyone and then propagated false hope and lies just to lead people to the false god I just created?
 
I understand that my post may seem callous but I can assure you it is not, it is from a perspective of the fact that I completely trusting God and his infite wisdom as well as his decisions, I cannot save anyone.
 
Pizza,

I have read 2 books about similar instances and while I am curious about it I am still skeptical. I find it peculiar to say the least.
 
As I listened to him speak, for over 40 mins, I get the idea that the words of Luke still hold true. I hate to call the guy a liar, so I will reserve judgment as well, but God is the one who "is the same yesterday, today and forever".

And remember, the verses I am referring to are used often by Christians to DESCRIBE hell similar to how he did. But those words ALSO assure (or seem to, to me) that God would never "send someone back from hell to tell the others".
 
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