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[__ Science __ ] A Hill to Die On
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journeyman
Member
I do agree with a young earth, but the gospel must be our foundation in talks of this nature. Jesus taught creation, not evolution.
journeyman
Member
The Bible says God created everything to reproduce after its own kind, which is what we observe every day.
Unlike the truth of scripture, evolutionists want people to believe our ancestors were lifeless chemical reactions.
Unlike the truth of scripture, evolutionists want people to believe our ancestors were lifeless chemical reactions.
Barbarian
Member
Actually, it says the earth brought forth animals according to their kind. It doesn't say that they reproduce according to their kind. That's man's addition to scripture to make it more acceptable to him.
Evolutionary theory makes no claims about the origin of life. But unless you consider the Earth to be alive, God says living things were produced by non-living things. It won't harm your salvation if you don't accept that; God doesn't care if you believe it or not. But you would likely have a better relationship with Him, if you believed everything He says.
journeyman
Member
Which can mean God molded their bodies from from the soil,
out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field...Gen.2:19
No problem there!
God had the animals go into the ark male and female because without nookie, animals would no longer exist.
Actually, it's what we all observe every day.
The Bible does.
The Bible says everything was made by God,
God...made the world and everything in it, Act.17:24
...without him nothing was made that has been made Jn.1:3
I disagree with you.
I believe God created Adam and Eve as the Bible says he did.
Barbarian
Member
Actually, it says the earth brought forth animals according to their kind.
It won't harm your salvation if you don't accept that; God doesn't care if you believe it or not.
Matthew 25:31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Get that right, and you are saved. Don't get it right, and you go with the devil and his angels. So simple and yet so hard for us to accept.
That is a man's revision to His word. Just let it be as it is.
Except for whiptail lizards, hammerhead sharks, Komodo dragons, and about seventy other vertebrates. And loads of invertebrates do without sex. Most, of course use sex, because it has evolutionary advantages; more variation and thereby more material for natural selection to make populations more fit. Actually, it's what we all observe every day.
The issue is, creationists don't approve of the way He did it.
It won't harm your salvation if you don't accept that; God doesn't care if you believe it or not.
Doesn't matter. Jesus makes it very clear and detailed in Matthew 25 what you must do to spend eternity with Him. Your opinion of the way He made life is not one of those things. There won't be a theology exam; He'll merely ask if you loved him and your fellow man well enough aid the least among us.
Matthew 25:31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Get that right, and you are saved. Don't get it right, and you go with the devil and his angels. So simple and yet so hard for us to accept.
I remain...agnostic on the question of Old or New earth creation. But I am decidedly skeptical of the ToE. Abiogenesis, the problem of information, the generally deleterious effects of mutation (accumulating in species over time), and the declarations of God's word all entirely erode any confidence I could have in the ToE.
journeyman
Member
After his kind, not after another kind,
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind,
He formed all creation as it is by his Word.
It says he formed Adam out of the ground. It doesn't say he formed an an amoeba out of the ground.
So your point is, If Adam left Eve behind, we'd still be having this conversation?
All my life I've never observed hammerhead shark become anything other than a hammerhead shark. Nobody ever observers that
It says he formed Adam out of the ground. It doesn't say he formed one celled Adam of the ground.
The heresy that humans are animals, descended from animals, may help explain why people feel comfortable acting like animals. On the other hand, maybe they'll discover a gene we have left over from an angry T-Rex to explian why humans goes on rampages.
I never said you can't be saved if you're deceived by evolutionary theory, but I hope you realize there are no atheists who believe God created Adam directly from the ground.
Barbarian
Member
Actually, it says the earth brought forth animals according to their kind.
"Beasts" are a rather diverse kind. And I notice even creationist sites now admit the fact of new species, genera, and sometimes families from existing kinds.
Didn't say bacteria, either. You really don't know why?
Doesn't say He didn't. I always find it astonishing that creationists think God isn't capable enough to make a universe that would bring forth life as He says it did.
It's just a fact. And of course, it's not religious at all. It's not heresy to deny the fact, either. It's just an unorthodox religious belief.
I wish people could be as respectable as my dogs. Animals are innocent. Please don't smear them by comparing them to us.
Humans aren't descended from dinosaurs. But knowing good and evil, we are without excuse.
The point is, what you think of the way God created living things has nothing whatever to do with your salvation. Creationists, as long as they follow the two great commandments, are no less Christian than the rest of us.
There are no atheists who accept that He did it by using natural means. But most Christians do. Again, not that it matters to one's salvation.
journeyman
Member
As long as the institutions of "higher learning" have no effect on whether a student thinks, "God isn't necessary", it's fine.
journeyman
Member
I've spoken to many atheists that it mattered to. I even know a brother and sister whose son went off to college and came home very disturbed about the existence of God.
So please, cut out bs.
Barbarian
Member
Again, not that it matters to one's salvation.
But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationISM. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question.
“From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true?”
That is a very simple question. One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said ‘No!’ A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed, “Wait a minute. There has to be one!” But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now, but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him.
And being through with creationism, I very nearly became through with Christianity. I was on the very verge of becoming an atheist.
https://peacefulscience.org/articles/glenn-morton/
YE will have much to answer for at Judgement.
As a rule, it's a bad idea to get advice on salvation from atheists.
Yeah, that's a huge problem. I know a number of people who were indoctrinated into YE creationism, and had crises of faith when they found it wasn't consistent with the Bible or with the evidence.
But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationISM. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question.
“From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true?”
That is a very simple question. One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said ‘No!’ A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed, “Wait a minute. There has to be one!” But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now, but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him.
And being through with creationism, I very nearly became through with Christianity. I was on the very verge of becoming an atheist.
https://peacefulscience.org/articles/glenn-morton/
YE will have much to answer for at Judgement.
Barbarian
Member
This is apparently a reboot of the old Discovery Institute, which seems to have folded recently.
With Discovery Fellows becoming evolutionists, announcing that "design" is inconsistent with special creationism, arguing interally, and with the Dover Trial that established ID as disguised creationism, it's been "a trainwreck" in the words of ID founder Philip Johnson.
journeyman
Member
Exactly Tenchi!
The Discovery Institute (DI) is a...think tank...that advocates the pseudoscientific concept of intelligent design...teaching of anti-evolution...beliefs in United States public high school science courses in place of accepted scientific theories
Cited from Wikipedia.
journeyman
Member
I agree, except I wondered why they became atheist after once believing in God. That was their testimony.
I'm not sure what problem you anf others had at some bible school that conflicted with your job experience.
I'm not basing my beliefs about my Creator on people who think he's bound by the physical laws of this world.
I certainly will. In fact dear believer, that's why I know evolution is a myth.
And if it is a "reboot"? So what? And who says it is merely a "reboot"? And what do you mean by "reboot"?
"Folded recently"? Says who? I see no signs of recent "folding" as I peruse the Discovery Institute website...
Why mention that DI fellows have become evolutionists? Evolutionists have become theists, abandoning their evolutionary perspective. And so? Which fellows have "become evolutionists," exactly? What of those who haven't?
Humans argue. It's a common thing. Why, then, mention it?
Do the foremost ID proponents of today agree that ID and creationism are essentially one-and-the-same thing? No.
When did Johnson say ID was a "trainwreck"? Who says he was "the founder" of ID and how do they establish this, exactly?
Barbarian
Member
Ah, it was just the "scientific arm" the Biologic Institute that failed...
I checked Guidestar for their latest IRS Form 990-EZ, which is dated 2019 and covers the fiscal year 2018 (Charity Navigator is a year behind). Sure enough, it contains the following statement on line 28:
The “Dr. Axe” in question is Douglas Axe, the president of the Biologic Institute. His salary of $133,333 in 2018 was the bulk of the total expenses of $201,873. Revenue was $68,600, leaving a deficit almost exactly equal to Dr. Axe’s salary. Inasmuch as Dr. Axe “no longer draws a salary from Biologic Institute,” it seems safe to say that they are effectively out of business, even though he “is exploring ways in which Biologic can partner with Biola.”
Biologic Institute Closes
Actually, it was just closed. Not long before, it was revealed that a photo of their "lab" was actually an image from a stock photo source.
Intelligent design think tank’s “institute” is a Shutterstock image
Intelligent design think tank's “institute” is a Shutterstock image
A green screen plus a stock image of a lab equals instant credibility.
arstechnica.com
More evidence that ID is coming apart as a creationist faith.
Discovery Institute Fellow Michael Denton Nature's Destiny
Most evolutionists are theists. Many creationists have abandoned their creationist notion, becoming theists.
As you see above, a member of the Discovery Institute says that ID and creationism are incompatible.
Barbarian
Member
Most religious schools know better than to add creationism to Christian belief.
You have it backwards. God binds the world to the physical laws He founded. I'm just noting that YE creationism is a great atheist-maker. YE will have much to answer for at Judgement.
It's directly observed. Most likely, you don't know what biological evolution is. What do you think it is?