A Reprobate Mind

[Gary]

Yet, when it comes to following the heart of Jesus' message, seems to completely not even be aware it exists, the law of Love for example. And when I see this I really have no idea how to take any of it. Is the person good but I just can't see it due to the splinter in my own eye?

This could be the reason for your friends condition. Not saying it is..........................I'm just saying.


1 Corinthians....(NKJV)
3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.


Not everyone who claims to be a Christian understands what it is to be a Christian. There's going to be a lot of rude awakenings come judgment day.


Matthew 7....(NKJV)
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’


Jesus puts it like this:


Matthew 15....(NKJV)
13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted.
14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”


But then He also says:


James 5....(NKJV)
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

.

 

[bluegirl]

This could be the reason for your friends condition. Not saying it is..........................I'm just saying.


1 Corinthians....(NKJV)
3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.


Not everyone who claims to be a Christian understands what it is to be a Christian. There's going to be a lot of rude awakenings come judgment day.


Matthew 7....(NKJV)
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’


Jesus puts it like this:


Matthew 15....(NKJV)
13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted.
14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”


But then He also says:


James 5....(NKJV)
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

.

This helps me a lot. I was referring to my catholic parents. I do respect them as my parents and I have told my mother on occasion what I think. But there are few occasions anymore. It used to be that she would be upset that I did not go to church on sunday since it was a mortal sin. I told her, really, do you thnk the Lord is concerned with my sitting in a pew as the major mortal sin? I told her, no, that is NOT what the bible says. Other examples and times also have come up. But she did not like hearing it and never ever says things to me now about what she considers my damned soul (yes, she thinks I am damned because I am not Catholic and therefore I am the least of my siblings in her eyes, the one who she only perfunctorily talks to and never confides in.) I'm the prodigal but my parent isn't going to welcome me for coming to the Lord. For a long time I wondered if if was me. If she was right. Then over time I gave it to the Lord and prayed on it. I came to a certain truce in my heart. I forgave her, do not judge her, treating my parents always with respect. But I won't be a Catholic, even if it means she withholds love. And this happened at the university too. The foremost Catholic expert on God has sort of disowned me because I was not towing the Catholic line, and even though and in spite of the fact I did try to be collegial and to be non-confrontational. So now he does not give me references for teaching. I guess my more protestant teaching of Genesis and Augustine to undergrads DID NOT go over with him. That expert on God even went so far as to inform me the church's view is that once you are baptized catholic you ARE catholic and cannot escape it and are bound by its RULES (concerning the state of your soul). I was kind and did not know how to tell him that I have not been a catholic for 40 years. I was in the desert, without a home, not knowing what to do most of that time. Catholicism was a form of Egypt to me.

 

[Deborah13]

This helps me a lot. I was referring to my catholic parents. I do respect them as my parents and I have told my mother on occasion what I think. But there are few occasions anymore. It used to be that she would be upset that I did not go to church on sunday since it was a mortal sin. I told her, really, do you thnk the Lord is concerned with my sitting in a pew as the major mortal sin? I told her, no, that is NOT what the bible says. Other examples and times also have come up. But she did not like hearing it and never ever says things to me now about what she considers my damned soul (yes, she thinks I am damned because I am not Catholic and therefore I am the least of my siblings in her eyes, the one who she only perfunctorily talks to and never confides in.) I'm the prodigal but my parent isn't going to welcome me for coming to the Lord. For a long time I wondered if if was me. If she was right. Then over time I gave it to the Lord and prayed on it. I came to a certain truce in my heart. I forgave her, do not judge her, treating my parents always with respect. But I won't be a Catholic, even if it means she withholds love. And this happened at the university too. The foremost Catholic expert on God has sort of disowned me because I was not towing the Catholic line, and even though and in spite of the fact I did try to be collegial and to be non-confrontational. So now he does not give me references for teaching. I guess my more protestant teaching of Genesis and Augustine to undergrads DID NOT go over with him.

I have a sister-in-law who is Catholic. She is sure that several of us Protestants in the family need to converted in order to be saved. None of us bring it up but she does on occasion. I know that she does this because she loves us but it causes stressful times.

 

[bluegirl]

I have a sister-in-law who is Catholic. She is sure that several of us Protestants in the family need to converted in order to be saved. None of us bring it up but she does on occasion. I know that she does this because she loves us but it causes stressful times.

I think the answer for me was that I have refrained from judging or being 'certain' that I know if they are right with Jesus as persons, just because I feel that humility prevents me. I am afraid of overstepping my place and leave those things to God. On the other hand, the Catholic way dogmatically does say that if you do not attend their church every Sunday, each offense is a mortal sin. Which means I have 40 years multiplied by 52 weeks of mortal sins piled up, not including holidays and special days. Plus if you don't confess your sins regularly, that's a mortal sin. I haven't confessed since I was 17. I never plan to confess to anyone but Jesus unless the spirit moves me to confide to someone in fellowship. I had a trauma at age 6 where my mother told me I was in mortal sin and for 6 weeks or more was afraid to take me in a car lest I die and go to hell. I was not old enough for my first confession so she guarded over me like I was dying of some dread disease for weeks until my first confession. I did go to my first confession. But I was a little girl, 6, and the confessor was a 65+ year old male. I did not confess anything to him. So for many years I was afraid since I was going to hell many times over. This is just ONE example. I could give MANY more equally traumatic ones. Now, was this because of Catholicism or because of the way my parents applied it? Was it because I am stubborn, a black sheep? I don't know but I think it's not just my parents and not just my own failings. I later read a book by a protestant minister which spoke of abuses of very young children going to older confessors who directed those children in ways the parents would be unapproving of or didn't know of, thus bypassing parental authority. Then I read a book about the history of confession, which linked it to horrible historical things, and which traces the genealogy of secular confession to Catholic confession. I have had an adversion to the whole topic since I was kindergarten age. This adversion was cemented over time by even worse experiences of various sorts which were unloving and uncaring to the extreme. Few people know that until the 60s the inquisition (which was a response to the protestants) had not been cancelled. There are other views that are equally horrid but I'll stop for now. And I am not saying this to bash anyone. I am only speaking of my own reactions and experiences and my journey to heal from them. I have heard of Catholics who feel they have lovely lives in Christ and so on. I don't know if they do or if they do not. I only know that it's not for me.

 

[Jesse]

I think the answer for me was that I have refrained from judging or being 'certain' that I know if they are right with Jesus as persons, just because I feel that humility prevents me. I am afraid of overstepping my place and leave those things to God. On the other hand, the Catholic way dogmatically does say that if you do not attend their church every Sunday, each offense is a mortal sin. Which means I have 40 years multiplied by 52 weeks of mortal sins piled up, not including holidays and special days. Plus if you don't confess your sins regularly, that's a mortal sin. I haven't confessed since I was 17. I never plan to confess to anyone but Jesus unless the spirit moves me to confide to someone in fellowship. I had a trauma at age 6 where my mother told me I was in mortal sin and for 6 weeks or more was afraid to take me in a car lest I die and go to hell. I was not old enough for my first confession so she guarded over me like I was dying of some dread disease for weeks until my first confession. I did go to my first confession. But I was a little girl, 6, and the confessor was a 65+ year old male. I did not confess anything to him. So for many years I was afraid since I was going to hell many times over. This is just ONE example. I could give MANY more equally traumatic ones. Now, was this because of Catholicism or because of the way my parents applied it? Was it because I am stubborn, a black sheep? I don't know but I think it's not just my parents and not just my own failings. I later read a book by a protestant minister which spoke of abuses of very young children going to older confessors who directed those children in ways the parents would be unapproving of or didn't know of, thus bypassing parental authority. Then I read a book about the history of confession, which linked it to horrible historical things, and which traces the genealogy of secular confession to Catholic confession. I have had an adversion to the whole topic since I was kindergarten age. This adversion was cemented over time by even worse experiences of various sorts which were unloving and uncaring to the extreme. Few people know that until the 60s the inquisition (which was a response to the protestants) had not been cancelled. There are other views that are equally horrid but I'll stop for now. And I am not saying this to bash anyone. I am only speaking of my own reactions and experiences and my journey to heal from them. I have heard of Catholics who feel they have lovely lives in Christ and so on. I don't know if they do or if they do not. I only know that it's not for me.

You should Praise God - doubly for He releasing you from all that mess and thank God He revealed Himself to you!!! I'll praise Him with you!!

 

[bluegirl]

You should Praise God - doubly for He releasing you from all that mess and thank God He revealed Himself to you!!! I'll praise Him with you!!

Praise the Lord!!!!!

 

[ezra]

read what i say very close and please don,t add to what i am posting. there is many numerous scriptures . that gives us the security of our salvation . jude wrote
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to many out there are selling God short .i am not a eternal security believer as in can live how one wants still make it to heaven o.s.a.s . but i am secure in my salvation because of the Grace of GOD . we spend more time debating can you or can you not lose your salvation.. 1 john 2:19 wrote English Standard Version
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.New American Standard Bible
They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. --if all i had to do was worry about if i was still saved or not . i would not want to be a christian even Jesus wrote john 10:29 English Standard Version
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.New American Standard Bible
"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. God does not reject we reject him John 3:16 the reprobate is for those who have rejected Him. i realize this is not popular but i can back all this up with scriptures

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Amen! I agree. Only ;God knows, which is all the more reason we must love our neighbor and be cautious of judging others.

Allow me to adjust that slightly:
"...and be cautious of judging condemning others."

I will continue to 'judge' people. What I won't do is condemn them.
I know wrong-doing when I see it, and I am to make judgments concerning that. What I can not do is condemn wrong-doers as if I can somehow know why they do wrong and to what extent they are to be held accountable for what they do. That is God's territory. But the wrong-doing itself, I can see that with my own eyes.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

read what i say very close and please don,t add to what i am posting. there is many numerous scriptures . that gives us the security of our salvation . jude wrote
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to many out there are selling God short .i am not a eternal security believer as in can live how one wants still make it to heaven o.s.a.s . but i am secure in my salvation because of the Grace of GOD . we spend more time debating can you or can you not lose your salvation.. 1 john 2:19 wrote English Standard Version
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.New American Standard Bible
They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. --if all i had to do was worry about if i was still saved or not . i would not want to be a christian even Jesus wrote john 10:29 English Standard Version
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.New American Standard Bible
"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. God does not reject we reject him John 3:16 the reprobate is for those who have rejected Him. i realize this is not popular but i can back all this up with scriptures

If you say all this means a believer can not be turned over to a reprobate mind and lost, why does the writer of Hebrews warn the Hebrew Christians that there is no sacrifice left for them to rescue them from the wrath of God if they purposely turn from the truth in a willful sinning?

You see you have to interpret the less compelling evidence in Scripture by that which is more clear and compelling. We have plain scriptures that teach us that you NOT can walk away from the forgiveness you have and expect there to still be that forgiveness there for you on the Day of God's wrath.

 

[ezra]

If you say all this means a believer can not be turned over to a reprobate mind and lost, why does the writer of Hebrews warn the Hebrew Christians that there is no sacrifice left for them to rescue them from the wrath of God if they purposely turn from the truth in a willful sinning?

You see you have to interpret the less compelling evidence in Scripture by that which is more clear and compelling. We have plain scriptures that teach us that you NOT can walk away from the forgiveness you have and expect there to still be that forgiveness there for you on the Day of God's wrath.

hang on your making a mountain out of a ant hill how many of us have willfully sinned ? this is dealing with false teacher... tares a true Child of GOD will return back to. the Hebrew Christian was in danger of turning back to the law . yes we can depart from the truth . BUT why would we? if one walks away from God its them not God . once again this is what i am banking on They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us Romans 1
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28And even as they{ did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;}
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. [as Christians we know the judgement of God. } this is dealing with the lost who reject God. i am not saying we can not harden our heart BECAUSE the word tells us not to . King James Bible
Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
New American Standard Bible
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME, AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS, if you believe different . thats well and fine i just gave my point on mine

 

[Gary]

[as Christians we know the judgement of God. } this is dealing with the lost who reject God.

And those lost who reject God are people who profess to be Christian.

.

 

[ezra]

And those lost who reject God are people who profess to be Christian.

yup they profess have a form of Godliness but deny the power there of

 

[Gary]

yup they profess have a form of Godliness but deny the power there of

Can someone be a man of the cloth and still deny the power thereof?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

hang on your making a mountain out of a ant hill how many of us have willfully sinned ? this is dealing with false teacher... tares

But how many of us have sinned because we don't give a hoot about the forgiveness of sin we have received in Christ? That's the difference.

There is no sacrifice to cover willfully rejecting the forgiveness of God. When your sinning is the result of rejecting the forgiveness of God, thus trampling on the blood of Christ that sanctified you, you have nothing left to look forward to but the Judgment of God reserved for his enemies. Hebrews explains this to the Christians in the Hebrew church. Christians to whom the author says, "after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings,
33 partly by being made a public spectacle throughreproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were sotreated.
34 For you showed sympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and a lasting one.
(Hebrews 10:32-34 NASB)

So we know the passage is not talking about false 'not really saved' Christians. The author is warning bona-fide believers not to trample on the forgiveness they have received in Christ, because if they do that, they lose that forgiveness.

.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Jethro Bodine

2 Peter 2:1 NASB
1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:20-21 NASB
20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.

Remember, we're talking about whether passages about reprobate minds should be applied to ourselves alone, or not. Peter describes the reprobate and warns us that they will arise among us.

How in the world do you bring reprobate minds into any of these scriptures ? Further more if every single example and person that has been said to have been given over to a reprobate mind in this thread and a few others in this forum were true........God would have very little of His creation with Him when this thing is over...

Let me ask you this....say a man pulled knives on christians for getting into his bussiness and worshiped the devil big time and was into witchcraft way beyond a simple oops. He carried on such in a life style of imoral living and so much evil. Told people to shove thier God crap you know where. Spoke things like they were in the army of satin and blank blank GOD. Rejoiced in saying the Lords prayer backwords and so forth......

Would this be a person of a reprobate mind who God gave over to thier wickedness and could not come back ?
ANSWER this for me please !!!

 

[Cturtle]

Can someone be a man of the cloth and still deny the power thereof?

God is the only one who truly knows the heart, so yes it is possible.

 

[Gary]

How in the world do you bring reprobate minds into any of these scriptures ? Further more if every single example and person that has been said to have been given over to a reprobate mind in this thread and a few others in this forum were true........God would have very little of His creation with Him when this thing is over...

Matthew 22....(NKJV)
14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

Matthew 7....(NKJV)
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Matthew 22....(NKJV)
14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

Matthew 7....(NKJV)
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

.

Nice try but it does not answer any of the questions gary. Dig up some more scriptures and see if they will work any better....Thanks

 

[Gary]

Nice try but it does not answer any of the questions gary. Dig up some more scriptures and see if they will work any better....Thanks

Wow.

I guess you don't wanna talk then.

Okay.
.

 

[th1b.taylor]

This could be the reason for your friends condition. Not saying it is..........................I'm just saying.


1 Corinthians....(NKJV)
3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.


Not everyone who claims to be a Christian understands what it is to be a Christian. There's going to be a lot of rude awakenings come judgment day.


Matthew 7....(NKJV)
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’


Jesus puts it like this:


Matthew 15....(NKJV)
13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted.
14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”


But then He also says:


James 5....(NKJV)
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

.

Before I read BGs response, my first thought was I, really would not go there knowing no more than we do of the situation.