Abomination of Desolation in 70AD - Part 2

[Rev33]

Then How was it the LAST DAYS of this age 2000 years ago?

The end of the age was not 200[0] years ago.

It is the last Day of this age when Jesus returns and raises us up at the resurrection of the dead.


JLB

The Bible says the Last Days of the age were already underway during Christs earthly ministry:

[FONT=&quot]"God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son...." (Heb.1:1,2)

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"...but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself" (Heb.9:26b.)

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you...." (I Pet.1:20)

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]"Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come" (I Cor.10:11)

[/FONT]
[/FONT]You say those were not the Last days, at the end of the ages, yet scripture says they were.

 

[JLB]

Then How was it the LAST DAYS of this age 2000 years ago?

The end of the age was not 200[0] years ago.

It is the last Day of this age when Jesus returns and raises us up at the resurrection of the dead.


JLB

The Bible says the Last Days of the age were already underway during Christs earthly ministry:

[FONT=&quot]"God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son...." (Heb.1:1,2)

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"...but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself" (Heb.9:26b.)

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you...." (I Pet.1:20)

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]"Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come" (I Cor.10:11)

[/FONT]
[/FONT]You say those were not the Last days, at the end of the ages, yet scripture says they were.

On the last day, He will raise us up.


JLB

 

[Rev33]

Then How was it the LAST DAYS of this age 2000 years ago?

The end of the age was not 200[0] years ago.

It is the last Day of this age when Jesus returns and raises us up at the resurrection of the dead.


JLB

The Bible says the Last Days of the age were already underway during Christs earthly ministry:

[FONT=&quot]"God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son...." (Heb.1:1,2)

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"...but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself" (Heb.9:26b.)

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you...." (I Pet.1:20)

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]"Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come" (I Cor.10:11)

[/FONT]
[/FONT]You say those were not the Last days, at the end of the ages, yet scripture says they were.

On the last day, He will raise us up.


JLB

OK, but what "Last Days" were already underway 2000 years ago according to scripture?
What was it the "Last Days" of back then?

 

[JLB]

The Bible says the Last Days of the age were already underway during Christs earthly ministry:

[FONT=&quot]"God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son...." (Heb.1:1,2)

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"...but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself" (Heb.9:26b.)

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you...." (I Pet.1:20)

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]"Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come" (I Cor.10:11)

[/FONT]
[/FONT]You say those were not the Last days, at the end of the ages, yet scripture says they were.

On the last day, He will raise us up.


JLB

OK, but what "Last Days" were already underway 2000 years ago according to scripture?
What was it the "Last Days" of back then?

The last Day is a thousand years.

The last days leading up to the very last Day, began at the cross.

If Sunday is the first day of the week.

Wednesday is "hump" day the middle of the week.

That makes Thursday and Friday the last days of the week.

Saturday being the last day of the week.


JLB

 

[Rev33]

The Bible says the Last Days of the age were already underway during Christs earthly ministry:

[FONT=&quot]"God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son...." (Heb.1:1,2)

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"...but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself" (Heb.9:26b.)

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you...." (I Pet.1:20)

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]"Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come" (I Cor.10:11)

[/FONT]
[/FONT]You say those were not the Last days, at the end of the ages, yet scripture says they were.

On the last day, He will raise us up.


JLB

OK, but what "Last Days" were already underway 2000 years ago according to scripture?
What was it the "Last Days" of back then?

The last Day is a thousand years.

The last days leading up to the very last Day, began at the cross.

If Sunday is the first day of the week.

Wednesday is "hump" day the middle of the week.

That makes Thursday and Friday the last days of the week.

Saturday being the last day of the week.


JLB

Wow.. that is some fancy calisthenics.

You say the Last Days began at the Cross.
What scripture teaches that?

The Scriptures I cited teach that the "Last Days, at the "end of the Ages" were already underway before the cross, during Christ's earthly ministry.

How do you come up with "the last days began at the Cross"?

 

[Sinthesis]

If the last day is a literal thousand years, then do you think God will keep that sabbath by resting from His work for a thousand years?

 

[JLB]

The Scriptures I cited teach that the "Last Days, at the "end of the Ages" were already underway before the cross, during Christ's earthly ministry.

How many years were there prior to the year 1 AD?


JLB

 

[Rev33]

The Scriptures I cited teach that the "Last Days, at the "end of the Ages" were already underway before the cross, during Christ's earthly ministry.

How many years were there prior to the year 1 AD?


JLB

What does that have to do with my question?

 

[JLB]

The Scriptures I cited teach that the "Last Days, at the "end of the Ages" were already underway before the cross, during Christ's earthly ministry.

How many years were there prior to the year 1 AD?


JLB

What does that have to do with my question?

If you know then your answer will be pertinent to this discussion.


JLB

 

[JLB]

The Scriptures I cited teach that the "Last Days, at the "end of the Ages" were already underway before the cross, during Christ's earthly ministry.

has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; Hebrews 1:2


Peter places the last days at a time future to the time of His writing this epistle. He associates the last days with the time just before the Day of the Lord, by which the earth is reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

1 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation." 2 Peter 3:1-4


For the sake of discussion, let us agree that the last days started in the year Jesus began teaching.


The last Day is a thousand years.

The last days leading up to the very last Day, began with Christ.

If Sunday is the first day of the week.

Wednesday is "hump" day the middle of the week.

That makes Thursday and Friday the last days of the week.

Saturday being the last day of the week.




JLB

 

[Deborah13]

How do you think sinners get back on the new earth just outside the gates of the New Jerusalem as Revelation 22 states, if as you claim they were all removed from the earth some time prior?

There are definitely folks running around at the end, not allowed into the great city we get to be at. JLB knows!!! ask him (sneaking out the back very quit like..............)

Mike.

But Mike, Revelation 22 does not depict the end of the Old earth and heavens but the beginning of the new... AFTER the great white throne judgement, after the old H&E have passed away and been replaced by the New H&E, and scripture shows us that sinners still abound there, albeit outside the city's gates... since you previously claimed all sinners would be removed before this event, how did they get there?

I do not see how you get this idea. I do see the New Jerusalem and I see darkness outside the city and sinners there. But.....what does Revelation 21 say....

First John sees the new heaven and the new earth, then he see the new Jerusalem coming down from heaven. Then he is told this, "“It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.â€

Jesus Himself says, that the sinners will not be there, they will be consigned to the lake of fire, this is the second death. Just because the warning is restated in Rev 22, does not mean they will remain in outer darkness. Revelation is not always in chronological order. The same scene may be in several different chapters.

There are people being taught right now that those people in Rev 22 are Christians, saved people that have done these things but cannot enter the city because they are not considered good enough. Why, because someone gets hung up on the order. They see in 21, that the sinners are gone, therefore in 22 these must be saved people. Oh wow, wait a minute did they miss this verse or do they think that it's only some that are written in the Lambs BooK?
27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Personally I think this city, the New Jerusalem must already exists. I think the OT saints and the Apostles at least are already there. Otherwise, who are the saints who are crying out for revenge and they are with the Lord and where is the Lord? In the New Jerusalem??

 

[Rev33]

The Scriptures I cited teach that the "Last Days, at the "end of the Ages" were already underway before the cross, during Christ's earthly ministry.

has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; Hebrews 1:2


Peter places the last days at a time future to the time of His writing this epistle. He associates the last days with the time just before the Day of the Lord, by which the earth is reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

1 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation." 2 Peter 3:1-4


For the sake of discussion, let us agree that the last days started in the year Jesus began teaching.


The last Day is a thousand years.

The last days leading up to the very last Day, began with Christ.

If Sunday is the first day of the week.

Wednesday is "hump" day the middle of the week.

That makes Thursday and Friday the last days of the week.

Saturday being the last day of the week.




JLB

But How does this fit with your "math"??:

1 John 2:18
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[a] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

As I reckon your "days of the week" formula chart JLB, We must conclude John was writing this on "Friday" at 11:38 PM, 22 "God Minutes" or "41.6 Human years" before "Saturday".

Fascinating stuff.

 

[JLB]

The Scriptures I cited teach that the "Last Days, at the "end of the Ages" were already underway before the cross, during Christ's earthly ministry.

has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; Hebrews 1:2


Peter places the last days at a time future to the time of His writing this epistle. He associates the last days with the time just before the Day of the Lord, by which the earth is reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

1 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation." 2 Peter 3:1-4


For the sake of discussion, let us agree that the last days started in the year Jesus began teaching.


The last Day is a thousand years.

The last days leading up to the very last Day, began with Christ.

If Sunday is the first day of the week.

Wednesday is "hump" day the middle of the week.

That makes Thursday and Friday the last days of the week.

Saturday being the last day of the week.




JLB

But How does this fit with your "math"??:

1 John 2:18
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[a] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

As I reckon your "days of the week" formula chart JLB, We must conclude John was writing this on "Friday" at 11:38 PM, 22 "God Minutes" or "41.6 Human years" before "Saturday".

Fascinating stuff.

18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18

Did THE antichrist come in his day?

This is what Jesus taught them on the mount of Olives, privately. Many false christ's will come in His name. That was one of the signs before the end of the age.

That is why John here uses the expression "by which we know it is the last hour".

So the question remains Did THE antichrist come ( appear) in John's day.

Did John record in the letters to the churches in the book of Revelation as seeing THE antichrist.

When was 1 John written? http://www.errantskeptics.org/Dating-1-John.htm

2 John?

3 John?

Revelation?

How many years apart were the Epistles written.

Yet we find no record of THE antichrist as have been manifested.

Jesus told them and us that to understand what He was teaching in the Olivet Discourse, that the answers would be found in Daniel.

That means anyone living in the days of the Apostles could in fact read Daniel but not fully understand it.

WHY?

He replied, "Go your way, Daniel, because the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end. Daniel 12:9

The Apostles had trouble even understanding Paul's revelations, how much more the book of Daniel that had been sealed until now.

Job thought that God was the One bringing the calamities upon him, as the words indicate -

The Lord gives and The Lord takes away, blessed be the Name of The Lord.

The bible records these words as scripture.

Yet it was Satan who was tormenting him, not God.


JLB

 

[Rev33]

18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18 Did THE antichrist come in his day?

Undeniably.
"Antichrist" is a Spirit affecting many, not a singular incarnate Human despot.

So again, If A day is a thousand years, an Hour is 41.6 years... Using YOUR math JLB.
And John said he was writing in "THE LAST HOUR".
Was he wrong?

 

[Rev33]

"Antichrist" is a church heresy that manifested among the apostles' flocks in the 1st century. This heresy proved to St. John that the final hour of the last days had come upon him (1 John 2:18-19).
"Antichrist" is a heresy. It is a heresy that affected Christians among the apostles' first century flocks, and was a sign of the final hour of the last days (1 John 2:18-19). The christians who were affected by this spirit "went out from" (i.e. "left") the apostolic congregations to chase the heresy and teach it to many others. These apostate Christians were called "many deceivers" in 2 John 1:7:

"For MANY DECEIVERS are entered into the world who confess not that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist." (2 John 1:7)

"As you have heard that antichrist would come, even now there are MANY ANTICHRISTS, by which we know it is the last hour. They WENT OUT FROM US, but they were not OF us..."(1 John 2:18-19).

They had left the apostles flocks after being in them for some time. These apostate christians are mentioned again in 1 John 4:1-3, where St. John also calls those under the heresy of antichrist "MANY FALSE PROPHETS." Surely Matt 24:11,24 and Acts 20:29-30 were coming to pass in the mind of St. John as a sign of the impending end.

IN SUM
Antichrist is not a world-ruler secular leader dude that has power over the world, or even one single nation. Antichrist is a heresy, or a spirit of heresy that manifested among MANY Christians in the apostles' flocks in the 60s AD causing them to deny that one had to have Jesus to have the Father (1 John 2:22-24) and causing them to proclaim that Jesus never actually came in real human flesh (1 John 4:2-3; 2 John 1:7).

It never ceases to amaze me how much mythology has been built up over 2000 years on this idea of a Mr. Antichrist world ruler dude. No such thing exists anywhere in the bible, yet so many Christians buy into it hook, line, and sinker -- thanks to Hal Lindsey, J. Hagee, LaHaye, and other so-called "prophecy experts."

 

[JLB]

18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18 Did THE antichrist come in his day?

Undeniably.
"Antichrist" is a Spirit affecting many, not a singular incarnate Human despot.

So again, If A day is a thousand years, an Hour is 41.6 years... Using YOUR math JLB.
And John said he was writing in "THE LAST HOUR".
Was he wrong?

If what you say is true, then what the phrase Many antichrist's have come, if THE antichrist is a Spirit affecting many.

THE antichrist is a man affecting many.

The Christ was/is a Man.

THE antichrist is a man.


JLB

 

[Rev33]

18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18 Did THE antichrist come in his day?

Undeniably.
"Antichrist" is a Spirit affecting many, not a singular incarnate Human despot.

So again, If A day is a thousand years, an Hour is 41.6 years... Using YOUR math JLB.
And John said he was writing in "THE LAST HOUR".
Was he wrong?

If what you say is true, then what the phrase Many antichrist's have come, if THE antichrist is a Spirit affecting many.

"For MANY DECEIVERS are entered into the world who confess not that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist." (2 John 1:7)

Many Deceivers = THE Antichrist

THE antichrist is a man affecting many.

Rather, it is a SPIRIT affecting MANY:

2 By this you know the Spirit of God: cEvery spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/1 John 4.2-3#footnote1that Jesus http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/1 John 4.2-3#footnote2Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. (1John 4:2-3)

The Christ was/is a Man.

Correct

THE antichrist is a man.

False. You have no scriptural instruction to conclude anything of the sort.

Man made traditions are the ONLY source of any attempt to cement antichrist of scripture as some end time world ruler dude.

 

[JLB]

"For MANY DECEIVERS are entered into the world who confess not that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist." (2 John 1:7)

Put your cursor on the scripture quotation of 2 John 1:7, and you will see the scripture you referenced says - This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Your mouse must have slipped you you posted ... and the antichrist.

Rather, it is a SPIRIT affecting MANY: 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: cEvery spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. (1John 4:2-3)

A spirit that occupies one individual man that is called the man of sin, the son of perdition, the lawless one, [also referred to as the antichrist] who will go to the temple of God and proclaim himself as God.

This man will be destroyed by Jesus Christ Himself when He returns and the end of the age to gather His people.

The antichrist is a man that is influenced by a spirit.

The Christ is a Man that is influenced by The Holy Spirit.

7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward. 9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds. 2 John 1:7-11


Based on this scripture and its context, the antichrist that John is referencing is a man.

John teaches us any person who does not confess Christ as coming in the flesh is an antichrist.


JLB

 

[Rev33]

"For MANY DECEIVERS are entered into the world who confess not that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist." (2 John 1:7)

Put your cursor on the scripture quotation of 2 John 1:7, and you will see the scripture you referenced says - This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Your mouse must have slipped you you posted ... and the antichrist.

Not a slip. The ESV, HCSV, NIV, NET and most assuredly The YLT (Youngs LITERAL Translation) ALL say THE Antichrist, not AN antichrist in this passage.

A spirit that occupies one individual man that is called the man of sin, the son of perdition, the lawless one, [also referred to as the antichrist] who will go to the temple of God and proclaim himself as God.

SO many thigs wrong with this it's difficult to know where to start...
We will leave aside the "Temple of God" issue for a moment and look at your reasons for equating Antichrist of 1st and 2nd John with Pauls man of Sin.

Ok....Ummm.... what reasons do you have again? Don't see any except you say he is "Also referred to as the Man of Sin"... also referred to by who? not scripture... not the apostles...
Who?

You have no scriptural instruction to tie Antichrist of St John to St Pauls man of sin. None.

It is PURELY a man made TRADITION to do so.

 

[JLB]

Not a slip. The ESV, HCSV, NIV, NET and most assuredly The YLT (Youngs LITERAL Translation) ALL say THE Antichrist, not AN antichrist in this passage.

I put my curser over the scripture reference you yourself gave, and it showed what I quoted, which was an antichrist.

You have no scriptural instruction to tie Antichrist of St John to St Paul's man of sin. None.

2 Thessalonians 2 -

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


Looks like Paul refers to him by three different names here.

Maybe you don't like him to be refereed to as antichrist. WHY?

31 And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.

35 And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time. 36 "Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done. Daniel 11:35-36


What name does Daniel refer to him as?


JLB