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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
About money again
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jasonc
Member
that is relative the prayerful answer to the pray about a financial need and job. I will not call someone who I think may be greedy on the floor unless its led the Lord.
Malachi
Member
Enough to function without becoming a burden to someone else. BTW it is the love of money that is the root of all evil, not money per se.
ReginaForbes
Member
The world focuses on money itself, but it's not really the money they desire- it's what that money could buy. However, there is confusion over just exactly what money can buy. They think money will buy them peace and happiness...but those intangible things cannot be bought. You can buy items that may make you *think* you've purchased peace and happiness, but doesn't time always prove that to be wrong...then they gotta run out and buy it all again...and again...and again. In reality though, peace and happiness cannot be bought- it can only be found...once you give up the game and trust in God. He's the only true source of peace and happiness...and he doesn't take visa or mastercard!
Enough to care for their family.
Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. 1 Timothy 5:8 NIV
ezrider
Member
It is only to the poor who would think that money can buy them peace and happiness, or in other words, contentment. But that is not what drives the rich, for them money is not about material possession, it is about power and influence. They are never content. Their peace is only found when those to whom the power of their influence is applied bend to their will. Their happiness is found in the control of others.
K
Kenny_ms
Guest
I guess that depends on the Christian.
Work is a good thing, idle hands and all. If a person works honest and smart, starts their own business or whatever so their work is more enjoyable, that often leads to a situation where one can make a lot of money and have fun doing it (the challenge. You work for it, you deserve it. do you need a lot of money? No, we could do just what it takes to eat and pay the bills and no more and get by.
I wouldn't let it keep me from my family or become a workaholic but for one to make more than they need and have a little more than they need, I see no problem with that and no, money can't buy happiness but all being the same, the man/woman that can pay their bills is probably happier than the one who is constantly in deep debt and can't meet their payments. Some are satisfied with just enough but, there is something to be said about the security of having a little more than we need. Then again, some feel "enough money" to have plenty of security, IS a need, and that's a fair way of looking at things.
If the opportunity presents it self or we cause it to present itself, I'd say make enough money for an average size home, to pay all our bills and if we are willing to work for it, a few extras are fine. Retire early? work harder and or smarter and do that too, God never placed a limit on how much we make, only on how we deal with what we have.
In the end it's pretty much up to the individual, just, as in everything, always put God first.
YosefHayim
Member
Money's still an illusion though.
K
Kenny_ms
Guest
jasonc
Member
So are home repairs that are neededAs are hunger pangs and bill collectors so, just try to ignore them.
So what is need?
The problem I see and have personally experienced to be honest, is that the more money one makes, the more money one believes he/she needs to survive. Our standard of living changes as our wealth changes. For example, with more money I might buy a bigger and more expensive home even though I don't really need it.
Case in point. In the last 40 years the average size home in the US has increased by about 93% (1400 sq.ft. up to 2700 sq. ft.) while in the same time period the average size family has shrunk by about 13% (3.58 down to 3.13). The end result is that the average person in the US uses more than twice as much living space today than in 1970. This translates into higher per person cost adjusted for inflation not only in the structure itself but in maintenance, heating, cooling, taxes, insurance, etc.
It wasn't too long ago I asked our two daughters if they thought we were crowded in our home. We have an 1800 sq. ft. 1-1/2 story 3-bedroom farm house. They said, "No." I then asked them if we would be crowded if we sealed off the upstairs and moved our bedrooms down to the main level, which would leave us with about 1,000 sq. ft. of living space. Of course they replied, "Well, yeah!" Then I proceeded to tell them how I grew up in a 12' x 65' trailer house with a 9' x 16' bedroom added on totaling about 925 sq. ft. with 6 brothers and sisters and we never felt crowded in the least.
We expect more today than ever before but does that mean we deserve more?
dianegcook
Member
During some studies on this subject, some came across the idea, that what the eye Of the needle was/is the needle gate, they had back then.
They closed the big gates at night to the city, thus left a gate opened for a camel to go through at night, shaped like a needle.
They had to unload all the luggage (ill gotten gains), for the camel to go through the narrow gate.
Solomon was blessed by the Lord, thus, I think it is not sin to be rich.
Rich?
I am rich, by knowing the truth, God's love, food on the table, a roof over my head.
My
K
Kenny_ms
Guest
Actually, if we stick to the strict definition to the word "need", I have no doubt in my mind we'd find everyone that posts on this board has at least something more than they need, if not a lot more.
But why even hold ourselves to just needs? If someone went through the trouble to work their way through college, or even if they just took advantage their wealthy parents help with that, or if they just use their head and works smart and within God's guidelines (is honest and whatnot) or if they choose to take a second job or more hours, I'm not going to have anything to say about that person having more than they need if they work for it, would you? and if so, why?
On the eye of the needle, I'm nearly positive Dianegcook is right. If for no other reason, think about it, it is 100% impossible for any Camel to go through the eye of a needle as we know it, so to say "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle" would be a completely wrong statement and mean nothing because it suggests something is possible that is not possible and Jesus simply isn't going to do that, hence, I have to conclude the comment was made about something that could happen, but was just not easy and that's where Diane's definition comes in.
I don't know this for sure but I'd guess our term for the "eye" of our sewing needles came from the actual needle Jesus was talking about. Another point that really isn't biblical but if that camel did make it through the needle I think Jesus was referring to, it would probably have to lower it's head and all belongings we had tied to it might have to be removed before it could get through. Just a thought I found interesting but doesn't necessarily mean we can't get it through with some of our excess stuff.
Personal thoughts:
But in the end, we can't take it with us when we die and maybe that is some indication of how much unneeded stuff we should have. Might be fine to have a house that we can live extra comfortably in or to have that boat or whatever extra but when we start going in to collecting cars with all our excess money and buying so many things that we can't possible ever need, even for security, then it might be time to think about giving it away to the poor. but even then, if we act right, God is not necessarily going to send us to hell for even that. it's our choice what we give. But why keep it when we can lay up treasures in heaven with it? Wouldn't it be cool the have your Financial Adviser actually tell you and others that? Not sure how long he'd have a job, but he's be right.
Matthew 6:19-21King James Version (KJV)
19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
I believe the whole point of Jesus' analogy was how difficult it is for us to give up wealth and the more we have the more difficult it becomes. It doesn't matter whether He was referring to the narrow city gate or the eye of an actual sewing needle. He makes other similar references such as...During some studies on this subject, some came across the idea, that what the eye Of the needle was/is the needle gate, they had back then.
They closed the big gates at night to the city, thus left a gate opened for a camel to go through at night, shaped like a needle.
They had to unload all the luggage (ill gotten gains), for the camel to go through the narrow gate.
Solomon was blessed by the Lord, thus, I think it is not sin to be rich.
Rich?
I am rich, by knowing the truth, God's love, food on the table, a roof over my head.
My
Matthew 6:19-21, 24 NKJV
19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal;
20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.
21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon."
Matthew 19:21-22 NKJV
21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
Let's continue reading the nest couple verses from that story in Matthew 19. NKJV
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
jasonc
Member
there was NO narrow gate of jersusalem for camels. that has never been found.
http://www.learnthebible.org/the-eye-of-a-needle.html
http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/camelneedle.htm
http://www.learnthebible.org/the-eye-of-a-needle.html
http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/camelneedle.htm
dianegcook
Member
Christ_empowered
Member
I'm w/ WIP. I think wealth can also complicate things on a whole society wide level. Look at the US and other wealthy nations and how we/they have gone "post-Christian" as a whole, just as an individual might go "post-Christian" w/ lots of resources.