According to Jesus...

[francisdesales]

You serious? If I disagree with one of your false doctrines, like sola scriptura, that makes you a liar and you have no relationship with God???

What a hoot... Have you considered that maybe Augustine also lied about the contents of your Bible, since he was present at the Councils where the Church in the West set the canon of the Scriptures... :gah

My bible???? Are you not a christian? Your catholic therefore you believe Augustine's lies?

The Christian Bible, as you call it, was collated by men of several African councils, led by St. Augustine.

If he is a liar, then how can you believe that he correctly collated the MANY books available into a composite book that we now call "The Bible"? Maybe, being a liar, he left out "The Gospel of Thomas" or the "Apocalypse of Peter" or the "Acts of Paul". Maybe THOSE writings are indicative of the "true Gospel"...I find that interesting, your faith in a "liar"...

I'm Catholic and I believe what the Church teaches, and taught, before Augustine was even born... You call them "lies", I disagree.

And I can just as easily turn your argument on its head by speaking about the lie called "sola scriptura", that tradition of men that ignores the words of the Bible, to "prove" that you have no relationship with God, using YOUR logic.

Sure you want to continue with that line of thought?

 

[Guest]

We cannot help anyone if our material standard is as high as the secular world. Jesus' followers should not have high standards like the rest of the world if you want be faith as Jesus says. You see how you make excuses in other areas too? Do you remember the account of poor old lady in New Testament? What did Jesus say about her?

The woman in the NT is used by Jesus as an EXAMPLE of how mans HEARTS SHOULD BE about giving.
He is TEACHING HARDHEARTED JEWS how they OUGHT to BE !
It does NOT MEAN that we must give away everything we own!
By your asinine WORDS, I say WORDS because thats all it is....TALK...since we KNOW you HAVENT given away EVERYTHING that you own and thus are a hypocrite....Jesus is telling us ALL to ditch everything we own because He told the rich man to do so.
That ISNT the point !
Hes showing the HEART ! Exposing it, letting the Jews know where their HEART is!

And you are not one to be telling someone else that they are making up excuses.
Ive asked you THREE TIMES NOW TO OBEY THE CLEAR INSTRUCTION OF JESUS and so far youve ignored and dismissed it, just as I KNEW you would have to do!

Youre being a hypocrite, shad.
You tell US we arent obeying while YOU YOURSELF DO NOT OBEY !

Therefore the one teaching another, do you not teach yourself?
The one preaching not to steal, do you steal?
The one saying not to commit adultery, do you commit adultery?
The one detesting idols, do you rob temples?
You who boast in Law, do you dishonor God through breaking the Law?
For the name of God is blasphemed among the nations because of you, as it is written.
(Rom 2:21-24 MKJV)

 

[watchman F]

You serious? If I disagree with one of your false doctrines, like sola scriptura, that makes you a liar and you have no relationship with God???

What a hoot... Have you considered that maybe Augustine also lied about the contents of your Bible, since he was present at the Councils where the Church in the West set the canon of the Scriptures... :gah

My bible???? Are you not a christian? Your catholic therefore you believe Augustine's lies?

The Christian Bible, as you call it, was collated by men of several African councils, led by St. Augustine.

If he is a liar, then how can you believe that he correctly collated the MANY books available into a composite book that we now call "The Bible"? Maybe, being a liar, he left out "The Gospel of Thomas" or the "Apocalypse of Peter" or the "Acts of Paul". Maybe THOSE writings are indicative of the "true Gospel"...I find that interesting, your faith in a "liar"...

I'm Catholic and I believe what the Church teaches, and taught, before Augustine was even born... You call them "lies", I disagree.

And I can just as easily turn your argument on its head by speaking about the lie called "sola scriptura", that tradition of men that ignores the words of the Bible, to "prove" that you have no relationship with God, using YOUR logic.

Sure you want to continue with that line of thought?

Augustine is a liar and a false teacher, and the catholic church is corrupt. that doesn't make God nor the bible wrong.

 

[francisdesales]

Augustine is a liar and a false teacher, and the catholic church is corrupt. that doesn't make God nor the bible wrong.

Ah, watchman speaketh, therefore, it is...

I detect a circular argument in your response..

Which court would accept such a testimony? You have a liar, belonging to a corrupt organization, swearing that the "Bible" really is God's Word.

"No kiddin... Really, I wouldn't lie about THIS, your honor..."



If you think the organization is corrupt and full of liars, then how can you trust their "product" to be what it says it is? Are you AWARE that there were numerous other writings during this period of time in question??? If the "liars" are presenting you with THEIR version, then you have the "false" version, and the "true" version must be the Gnostic writings, or perhaps some other Judaizer writings, like the Gospel of the Hebrews. Maybe Paul was wrong and the Judaizers were right? Remember, you are relying on a bunch of liars, now...

Case dismissed ...

 

[watchman F]

Augustine is a liar and a false teacher, and the catholic church is corrupt. that doesn't make God nor the bible wrong.

Ah, watchman speaketh, therefore, it is...

I detect a circular argument in your response..

Which court would accept such a testimony? You have a liar, belonging to a corrupt organization, swearing that the "Bible" really is God's Word.

The bible is God's word regardless of who affirms or denies it. You say because Augustines believe the bible was God words that his teaching are true or that if His teaching are false then the bible cannot be God's word because He said so. I disagree i do not need augustine to tell me the bible is God's word. I know it is within my heart regardless of what you augustine or any other lying hypocrite believes.

 

[francisdesales]

The bible is God's word regardless of who affirms or denies it.

Who told you that? Men. Baptists, Assembly of God, whatever. Men. Not God.

That witness is based upon believing the witnesses from LONG time ago, since every book of the Bible, written separately, does not call itself the Word of God. How did Augustine KNOW that Philemon belonged into a codice called "the Bible"??? Philemon, and practically every other NT book, except Revelation, do not call themselves "the Word of God'.

You say because Augustines believe the bible was God words that his teaching are true or that if His teaching are false then the bible cannot be God's word because He said so. I disagree i do not need augustine to tell me the bible is God's word. I know it is within my heart regardless of what you augustine or any other lying hypocrite believes.

Muslims and Mormons also "know it in their heart" that their scriptures are from God.

Naturally, your argument is a circular argument and proves nothing.

"I think the Bible is the Word of God, so it must be so"...

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's not how it works.

Regards

 

[shad]

The bible is God's word regardless of who affirms or denies it.

Who told you that? Men. Baptists, Assembly of God, whatever. Men. Not God.

Oh, come on francis, it is written, "the Scripture is inspired word of God"

 

[watchman F]

The bible is God's word regardless of who affirms or denies it.

Who told you that? Men. Baptists, Assembly of God, whatever. Men. Not God.

Wrong again buddy. it is you who is stuck in religion. My God told me His word was truth. No man needed to.

 

[watchman F]

Naturally, your argument is a circular argument and proves nothing.

"I think the Bible is the Word of God, so it must be so"...

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's not how it works.

Oddly enough it is you who is trying to convince me. I really could care less what you believe.


You want me to believe in your hero Augustine, when i need no man to believe on except Jesus Christ.

 

[Guest]

Who told you that? Men. Baptists, Assembly of God, whatever. Men. Not God.

Contrary to what you are going to try to assert, FD, the CHURCH was copying those letters and passing them around for doctrine LONG BEFORE the RCC EVER was used to bring them together.
You seem to be under the delusion they were hidden somewhere and the RCC found them and brought them out into the light or something.
Thats absolutely absurd.
Those writings were out IN THE CHURCH and being copied over and over by hand LONG BEFORE the RCC EVER got involved.

All the RCC did was gather up what was ALREADY BEING USED for doctrine...nothing more.

 

[jasoncran]

of course that is a long story. but persons like him cant, and he has kids and is divorced.[/quote]

We cannot help anyone if our material standard is as high as the secular world. Jesus' followers should not have high standards like the rest of the world if you want be faith as Jesus says. You see how you make excuses in other areas too? Do you remember the account of poor old lady in New Testament? What did Jesus say about her?
shad, the man has not enough to keep a roof over his head!!!!!!!!! meaning that he is losing his house. his house is 50 yrs old.!! He has a used car, and he does play guitar for his church,and other things to reach the lost, but he cant give to them.

i know my bro, trust me. he loves the lord, and its a long story. and i will leave it at that.

 

[jasoncran]

augustine and others did work together. the vulgate elimanated the apochrya, but that doesnt mean that agustine was totally wrong.

fyi i dont like nor agree with much of the rcc doctrine. but if we all examine our own particular doctrines we will find some things that are almost heresies or are, though we may deny it.

i do accept solo scriptura for the record.

 

[shad]

shad, the man has not enough to keep a roof over his head!!!!!!!!! meaning that he is losing his house. his house is 50 yrs old.!! He has a used car, and he does play guitar for his church,and other things to reach the lost, but he cant give to them.

i know my bro, trust me. he loves the lord, and its a long story. and i will leave it at that.

I cannot convince anyone to follow what Jesus says. I don't know anyone besides my family in their financial situation. All I am doing is spreading what Jesus says. Jesus says to help the poor in need. He has not said that you dont have to help others if you are poor. That old lady was so poor but she still gave an offering to God. That wasn't just 10%, she gave almost all she had to live on. She is one of super faithful ones we should imitate.

 

[jasoncran]

shad, the man has not enough to keep a roof over his head!!!!!!!!! meaning that he is losing his house. his house is 50 yrs old.!! He has a used car, and he does play guitar for his church,and other things to reach the lost, but he cant give to them.

i know my bro, trust me. he loves the lord, and its a long story. and i will leave it at that.

I cannot convince anyone to follow what Jesus says. I don't know anyone besides my family in their financial situation. All I am doing is spreading what Jesus says. Jesus says to help the poor in need. He has not said that you dont have to help others if you are poor. That old lady was so poor but she still gave an offering to God. That wasn't just 10%, she gave almost all she had to live on. She is one of super faithful ones we should imitate.

uh shad, i doubt you give all to the charities, if you did, then you must be tithing to your self, as if you look at the bible malach 3:10 States where is it to go, the church. the storehouse of god. the body of christ has become that caretaker of the storehouse.

so how do you give all that you get to charity when one has need of food, and billls, etc

 

[Guest]

I cannot convince anyone to follow what Jesus says.

I agree....especially when you demand that others obey YOUR twisted views while you exempt yourself from obeying His CLEAR commands.
Christians should ignore such a teacher.

All I am doing is spreading what Jesus says.

No youre not.
All youre doing is making unscriptural claims and ignoring the CONTEXT from which Jesus teaches.
You put godless burden on OTHERS then like a pharisee refuse to take the same burden upon yourself when someone directs it back at you.

That wasn't just 10%, she gave almost all she had to live on. She is one of super faithful ones we should imitate.

Dont make me laugh gent.
Some of us HAVE given all that we personally owned away in our lives to purge ourselvse of worldly desires.
My guess is that you talk the talk and have never walked the walk.
Id bet a $100 bill that you have NEVER given away ALL that you own...or anywhere even close.
So stop acting like anyone else needs to when YOU dont...
Again...

Therefore the one teaching another, do you not teach yourself?
The one preaching not to steal, do you steal?
The one saying not to commit adultery, do you commit adultery?
The one detesting idols, do you rob temples?
You who boast in Law, do you dishonor God through breaking the Law?
For the name of God is blasphemed among the nations because of you, as it is written.
(Rom 2:21-24 MKJV)


And where is that $5000 I asked you for some pages ago ?
Dont you OBEY Jesus' CLEAR commandment, friend ?

 

[shad]

uh shad, i doubt you give all to the charities, if you did, then you must be tithing to your self, as if you look at the bible malach 3:10 States where is it to go, the church. the storehouse of god. the body of christ has become that caretaker of the storehouse.

so how do you give all that you get to charity when one has need of food, and billls, etc

Why the personal question? I am only talking about what Jesus says. I will let Jesus judge if I am giving enough to God. Jesus is expecting much more than most of us who are living in wealthy countries. I know most of us are not giving how we should. How do I know? I know because we are living so luxuriously. Many Christians are divorcing and remarrying unbiblically. So their expenses are much more than non-divorcées. They are paying the consequence. How can they help others when their own lives are in chaos? It's sad.

 

[jasoncran]

uh shad, i doubt you give all to the charities, if you did, then you must be tithing to your self, as if you look at the bible malach 3:10 States where is it to go, the church. the storehouse of god. the body of christ has become that caretaker of the storehouse.

so how do you give all that you get to charity when one has need of food, and billls, etc

Why the personal question? I am only talking about what Jesus says. I will let Jesus judge if I am giving enough to God. Jesus is expecting much more than most of us who are living in wealthy countries. I know most of us are not giving how we should. How do I know? I know because we are living so luxuriously. Many Christians are divorcing and remarrying unbiblically. So their expenses are much more than non-divorcées. They are paying the consequence. How can they help others when their own lives are in chaos? It's sad.

because you make a judgment on my bro without even knowing him, his wife left him and married another a few yrs later, my bro admits that he wasnt a perfect husband and did his share in the breakup, but he tried to keep the marriage and even tried to reconcile after the fact.


so please before you assume something on my bro ask.

 

[shad]

because you make a judgment on my bro without even knowing him, his wife left him and married another a few yrs later, my bro admits that he wasnt a perfect husband and did his share in the breakup, but he tried to keep the marriage and even tried to reconcile after the fact.


so please before you assume something on my bro ask.

I was not talking about your brother. I made an over all observation. It is my conviction that churches are condoning unbiblical divorces and remarriages. You are the one who brought up giving. I just quoted what Jesus says and made an over all observation of what is going on in the wealthy countries regarding giving. We cannot give much if we are living like the rest of the world. You have been making excuses for churches' disobedience one after another. Your brother just happens to be one of them. This is another area where the churches are sinning against Jesus.

 

[francisdesales]

Oh, come on francis, it is written, "the Scripture is inspired word of God"

that doesn't tell us the CONTENT of Scriptures, does it, Shad...

 

[francisdesales]

[quote="watchman F":nhlbtp5x]

The bible is God's word regardless of who affirms or denies it.

Who told you that? Men. Baptists, Assembly of God, whatever. Men. Not God.

Wrong again buddy. it is you who is stuck in religion. My God told me His word was truth. No man needed to.[/quote:nhlbtp5x]

I think we'll have to break off this conversation with you, I had thought you might present some sensible argument, but "God told you", that's it???

Any other voices you've been hearing lately?