Already Gone - Teens Abandoning Faith

[Pebbles]

I
In spite of the intellectual academia pressure to believe in evolution as something reasonable, all one has to do is look at medical science (which takes this stance) and behinds the scenes and we can see how truly messed up it is. The medical philosophy is more stupid than the believers are deemed to be.

If I want good health, I listen to them, and then turn the advice around 180º and then I'm fine. So next time one fumes that a preacher asks for a modest contribution to help the work of the Lord, just remember Big Pharma who lines their pockets with gold and yet nobody complains about that as they dish out their hard-earned money and may even consider that "reasonable".

If the same minds and mindset proposed the theory of and believe in evolution, that's enough for me to reject it right then and there. Just a racket.

So do you feel that bible study offers you insight into how the human body functions?

And Would you actually practice what you preach... Your child contracts pneumonia do you reject the doctors advise of a prescription of antibiotics?

Do you feel modern medicine and studies, antibiotics and vaccinations ect have done nothing to improve the quality of life or extend the human lifespan?

 

[handy]

My daughter had to go to the doctor's today (she has strep throat, poor baby) and on the way in, I decided to talk with her about this thread.

Thoughts from a 13 year old girl:

Most kids, when they first turn 18, are probably not going to do all the things their parents made them do for awhile, but, when it comes to God and church...if it was real to them, and they just weren't going because they were made to...they'll come back.

Rock music, coffee bars, multi-media presentation and light shows during youth group and church would be kind of cool at first, but after awhile it would just get annoying.

Youth group, Sunday School and church are a lot more fun when more kids are involved ...BUT...

(and this was when things got very serious)

only if the kids aren't being hypocrites.

This was when she stopped responding to my questions and such, and really started to open up with her own thoughts on the matter.

She told me about this one girl she knows from her old school, who is "friends" with her on Facebook. She said that she always knew this girl was pretty "slutty" (her word) and the girl uses foul language all the time, jokes about smoking pot, sleeps with guys...and talks all the time about meeting up with her friends at church and doing things at church.

It truly bothered Viola that this girl was so comfortable at church, when she isn't living any kind of Christian lifestyle at all. Not only is she on the wrong track, she's proud of it and tries to draw as many as she can along with her.

And yet, no one from her church seems to even know what she's like 6 days out of the seven. Or, if they do, they don't care enough to intervene in her life... the girl is only 14.

According to my ever-so-wise 13 year-old, no-one with this girls lifestyle should be that comfortable in church...and no church should be that comfortable letting her come around the other kids there.

Basically, what Viola is getting out of this situation with this girl and her friends (all of whom are pretty wild and many of whom go to the same church) is that the church is teaching the youth that nothing really matters, as long as you show up. And, what's the point of showing up when there are a lot more fun things to do on Sunday morning, especially if your parents can't make you go anymore.


I thought that was enlightening.

 

[Mike]

So Mike you feel it's a bad thing to believe in evolution?

Pebbles, I wouldn't mind having that discussion, but I'd rather not take this one there. I can't say who can and can't respond, but I was hoping to discuss this with Christians. I put it in an open forum in case anyone who left the church wanted to give their input. Hope you aren't offended.

Thoughts from a 13 year old girl:

Most kids, when they first turn 18, are probably not going to do all the things their parents made them do for awhile, but, when it comes to God and church...if it was real to them, and they just weren't going because they were made to...they'll come back.

Handy, as always, you have an insightful daughter there.

However, we do need to acknowledge that something is happening in the "greying" and thinning of our churches, don't we? Even if there wasn't a noticeable decline in the Church, I would be concerned that the Church does not prepare believers and challenge them to think/believe deeper.

 

[jasoncran]

i dont buy the toe for the primarily reason of how the book of genesis written, yes its not a science book but we believe it to be true by faith.

secondly theres alot the toe cant explain. why by some function do we get to ponder our purpose? and why are here and abstract thought and languages.
these involve purpose and intent to learn. something that ns cant give as it neither is aware nor cares.

 

[reba]

Re: Sunday School attendance waning --- need ideas

A million years ago i was taught Bible stories in Sunday School.

The depth changing as we aged.

A few years back i had contact with a Sunday School teacher. The Bible was so watered down it broke my heart.....

Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

For this one i am hiding behind the couch....

With most of the Sunday School teachers being women. The look of Christianity is female/ sissy if you will. Any of us who know a Christian man knows it is not for sissies...​

 

[tim-from-pa]

So do you feel that bible study offers you insight into how the human body functions?

And Would you actually practice what you preach... Your child contracts pneumonia do you reject the doctors advise of a prescription of antibiotics?

Do you feel modern medicine and studies, antibiotics and vaccinations ect have done nothing to improve the quality of life or extend the human lifespan?

Answers

1) yes, 2) not necessarily, and 3) no certainly not cholesterol medicine, high BP meds and diabetic or other lowering the numbers stuff, definitely have not extended life without a doubt.

But I shouldn't be hard on all medical as some discoverers were Christian or at least deists.

I like what one medical professor said to his students. 50% of all medical science out there is not correct. You have to find out what 50% it is!

 

[Mike]

Hey, can we try and keep this relevant to the topic of teens & young adults losing interest in church, please. The science forum is filled with such debates.

Thank you!

 

[tim-from-pa]

Re: Sunday School attendance waning --- need ideas

A million years ago i was taught Bible stories in Sunday School.

The depth changing as we aged.

A few years back i had contact with a Sunday School teacher. The Bible was so watered down it broke my heart.....

Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

For this one i am hiding behind the couch....

With most of the Sunday School teachers being women. The look of Christianity is female/ sissy if you will. Any of us who know a Christian man knows it is not for sissies...​

You noticed the same thing? Spirituality as interpreted by people today is equated with femininity? That's why I usually see a disproportionate amounts of women in the SS and bible study classes. With bible study, it's usually only the pastor, myself and sometimes one other guy there. Men just have an improper attitude about what the bible and being a Christian is about.

 

[Pebbles]

Hey, can we try and keep this relevant to the topic of teens & young adults losing interest in church, please. The science forum is filled with such debates.

Thank you!

You need two sides to debate I wasn't going to debate I've seen how pointless that is I'm merely asking you questions about the things you assess as bad about the statistics you found, and although I'm gobsmacked and to one answer by one of you appalled at the answers I've heard but I'm not going to respond because I know how fruitless that is.

 

[Mike]

You need two sides to debate I wasn't going to debate I've seen how pointless that is I'm merely asking you questions about the things you assess as bad about the statistics you found, and although I'm gobsmacked and to one answer by one of you appalled at the answers I've heard but I'm not going to respond because I know how fruitless that is.

Pebbles, I think I misinterpreted your original comment. I thought you were asking if I thought evolution is a bad thing, but in retrospect, you were asking if believing in it is.

So Mike you feel it's a bad thing to believe in evolution?

What an agnostic believes about it is his prerogative. I'll address this from a Christian's perspective. For a Christian to believe in it is to take the very underpinnings of scripture out from under it. We put our faith in the Bible. There is archeological/historical evidence to lend to it's credibility, and we take that credibility to draw our conclusion that the Word is God Breathed without error.

For a Christian to fall prey to this false theory is to strike doubt in the very first sentence of the Bible. When a Christian does that, s/he opens up the entire Bible to conjecture. Once the door is cracked open, it allows many other doubts to follow. Put in the context of this thread and children who hear mixed messages (or no message) from church, they combine that with what they're hearing in the world, and they are on a very slippery slope.

You will disagree with this, and neither of us will change our opinions, so no I don't think debate is going to be substantive here. To answer your question in a word - Yes.

 

[Sam21]

So do you feel that bible study offers you insight into how the human body functions?

And Would you actually practice what you preach... Your child contracts pneumonia do you reject the doctors advise of a prescription of antibiotics?

Do you feel modern medicine and studies, antibiotics and vaccinations ect have done nothing to improve the quality of life or extend the human lifespan?

If the concept of evolution had never been presented,the knowledge of medicine would still be where it is today.

 

[Sparkey]

Children Learn What They Live
By Dorothy Law Nolte, Ph.D.

If children live with criticism, they learn to condemn.
If children live with hostility, they learn to fight.
If children live with fear, they learn to be apprehensive.
If children live with pity, they learn to feel sorry for themselves.
If children live with ridicule, they learn to feel shy.
If children live with jealousy, they learn to feel envy.
If children live with shame, they learn to feel guilty.
If children live with encouragement, they learn confidence.
If children live with tolerance, they learn patience.
If children live with praise, they learn appreciation.
If children live with acceptance, they learn to love.
If children live with approval, they learn to like themselves.
If children live with recognition, they learn it is good to have a goal.
If children live with sharing, they learn generosity.
If children live with honesty, they learn truthfulness.
If children live with fairness, they learn justice.
If children live with kindness and consideration, they learn respect.
If children live with security, they learn to have faith in themselves and in those about them.
If children live with friendliness, they learn the world is a nice place in which to live.​

​

Copyright © 1972 by Dorothy Law Nolte

You've probably read the famous parenting poem before. It has been translated into 35 different languages and has traveled around the world many times. Crown Prince Naruhito (Japan) revealed that he was using it to raise his three-year-old daughter in 2005. Dorothy Louise Law Nolte, family counsellor and writer was born January 12th 1924; died November 6th 2005.

(Psalm 92:1-6 KJV)

"[[A Psalm [or] Song for the sabbath day.]] [It is a] good [thing] to give thanks unto the LORD, and to sing praises unto thy name, O most High: To shew forth thy lovingkindness in the morning, and thy faithfulness every night, Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound. For thou, LORD, hast made me glad through thy work: I will triumph in the works of thy hands. O LORD, how great are thy works! [and] thy thoughts are very deep. A brutish man knoweth not; neither doth a fool understand this."​

​

"A brutish man knoweth not; neither doth a fool understand this."

 

[Elijah674]

Is the problem our children, or is it that 'the church' that has left Christ?
There are but very few exceptions in life today as 'i' see it!

2 Thess. 2

[1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
[2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. (that sounds like prophecy?)

[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
[4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

(OK: Who fall's away, your kids??? And who fell away in Christ's day, and who stayed put?? (kid's?) And who was in their pulpits per/say?? And what message are the young'ins hearing from even parents of today, let alone in the 'fallen away' churchs? And parents?? See John 9:18-22 & zero in on today's 'bold Lukewarm' parents & there love of what??!)

(We see here more than just false apostles who are deceitful workers! And WORKS?? whatever, but what are the kids seeing even in the home being done?? And the church's are DOCUMENTED as Rev. 17:1-5, kids are not deaf & dumb, they ask there self, what have you got that we want??

2 Cor. 11
[13] For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
[14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
[15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. Works?? What ever, huh??

2 Cor. 6
[11] O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.
[12] Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.
[13] Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.

(The kids? They hear this taught from behind the pulpit.. or in the home of today?? And it is the kids who are FALLING AWAY??? One church that I used to have some respect for used to teach Deut. 22:5 meant what God taught about mens & woman's clothing, and the jewelry & makeup & the way that mom & dad dress is now ok?? and dancing + movies?? Are you kidding me, that God does indeed change?? (Heb. 13:8-9) And that is the kids fault, huh?)

[14] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

(Yet, it cost to much Lord to send our kids to Real Christians schools, and home school?? what would the world think of that Lord!! and they need the social dating with these ones so that they can 'yoke' together in marriage.. or however they will learn to unite?? And that to is the kid's fault?)

[15] And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
[16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

[17] Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

(And that is an Eternal Condition from day one! (Acts 5:32 + Rev. 18:4) And that is only for the young'ins??)

[18] And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

---Elijah

 

[Pebbles]

If the concept of evolution had never been presented,the knowledge of medicine would still be where it is today.

Quite a statement given you don't work in science/medical research.

 

[Mike]

With all the parents here, I'm surprised this isn't getting more of a response. Even if you're a Christian without children, this would seem to be concerning. If anyone feels this isn't as serious as I feel it is, I'd be interested in hearing why. Like I said, this is something I'm in prayer over my children all the time.

 

[handy]

Elijah, I find that there is a lot of truth in your post...one can hardly blame the kids for the failings (and falling away) of the church.

I find that the church truly has abandoned a lot of what she should be doing...trading going out into the world with the gospel with trying to compromise with the world in hopes they will beat a path to our door.
Condemning what worldly people do or want to do (gay marriage?) and yet turning a blind eye to blatant sin within our own household of faith. Seeking after feel-good experiences rather than being iron against iron or truly devouring God's word so that we can discern truth....

Is it any wonder that our children might look upon we elders as hypocritical?

 

[jasoncran]

If the concept of evolution had never been presented,the knowledge of medicine would still be where it is today.

just so you know, even the creationists at icr and aig believe in evolution, just that it doesnt give a good account for the variates of species that we see.

on this note. to my fellow christians should we be so anti-science? why not teach the genesis account and also defend it? what about teaching the other theories of evolution and also the bbt etc and what they state and why they dont hold up and ALLOW the sunday school kids or parents to learn how to raise them up in a good world view. our children must decide for themselves what they believe whether genesis is literal or allegorical or both.and both is what that account is. we should allow or teach them to see and pray for what the story does say.

that doesnt mean that we allow debates but answer questions honeslty and dont belittle them. in all honesty here and most churches for some reasons its genesis has to be literal but we can allow all manner of interpretations of the end times. odd aint it. when in reality neither is salvinical but some are from poor exegisis and we shouldnt compromise that.

that is why i dont buy the local flood theory. would it hurt the church to defend and teach our world view and go back 100yrs?

and i do agree with mike.

i do wish to adress that comment mike on that compromise. i dont buy the toe, but its the way its presented that bothers many more.

 

[Mike]

Jason, I thought you were going headlong into a debate on evolution!

But, I won't do that to you cause you brought it back.

Handy, I share your concern about the matters of our congregations being observed by our youths. If we can't keep our own house in order, what kind of message is this sending them?

Realizing there are only a few participating, I wonder if anyone could say any of these and other questions that can creep into a teen's mind have been adequately addressed by the pastor at church, in other "non-worship" settings, or both:

How do we know the Bible is reliable?
Has science disproved the Bible?
Is the World millions of years old?
How can the Bible stand up to carbon dating?
How does the Bible stand up to archeological fossils showing a succession of changes in man?

These are just a few of the many questions that likely cross, if not dwell in, the minds of our youth. Sadly, I cannot recall our pastors ever giving solid biblical defenses of them, and they certainly have not aided our members with a ready defense of them. We have had adult Bible studies on Sunday in which these are addressed, but few members have attended these, and they haven't reached our teens. I can say this somewhat informed, because I've mentored small teen groups going through confirmation, and I've heard what they're taught. They haven't been taught how we defend these points or how TO defend them.

I have been forced to do my own reading, listen to radio programs and take other measures to be comfortable with these questions. Am I concerned that our teens are emerging into adulthood, these questions being unaddressed? You bet I am!

 

[reba]

When the Scriptures are taught they prove themselves to be true. The pictures of Christ in the OT come to life....

I was a snotty rebellious teen who knew more the mom and dad. Having my children kept me from the drug world.

Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

My ingrained knowledge of the Word mostly in story form has been a comfort, blessing, fortress, I know the Rock. Because i heard/saw (picture form) the Word. The story of Moses smiting the Rock and the water that gave life to parched folks. is the same as the Rock that was smote at the Cross and the water is the Living Water.

I dont know that because i am smart i know that cause i heard the WORD.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Kids today are hungry for a real Spirit they want to know why they ARE. Todays churches seem to feed them a weak mix a touch of Jesus mixed with a bunch of the world... Give them Christ.... a Rock so when they look back they can see the strength.

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
This weak church or form of Christianity is sand.


You are very right to be concerned, Mike. We can see what is becoming of the USA one reason is no foundation, no real history. We have the History of our God!

It is not up to the churches to fit in the World we should quit trying.

Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

I know i am stretching the context a bit....


sometimes ya just got to rant...

 

[handy]

Wow Reba, your last post echos some of my thoughts.

In addition to some of the things you posted, I wanted to add:

Every Christian has a natural hunger and thirst for God's word...we just do. Don't you? Don't you just love it when a new truth is unveiled before you, when you see a familiar passage take on a meaning that you hadn't grasped before?

Don't you just love it when the Holy Spirit reveals Himself to you via His word?

Why on earth do we think that our kids wouldn't have this thirst and hunger for His word?

But, we've conditioned them to believe that God's word just isn't "entertaining" enough for them...that, since they are young, they are automatically going to think that the Bible isn't cool enough and church isn't going to be relevant to their lives, unless we bend over backwards to make it so.

Think about it...it's sort of like the old classic lie (straight from the pit of hell) that "all kids are going to have sex, so you'd best make sure that she's on the pill and he has a condom."

Tell that one to a kid and guess what...they get the message that it's OK to have sex outside of marriage.

Tell our kids that church isn't really all that relevant, unless we jazz it up, or that God's word really can't stand a chance against their science teacher, or that as kids, it's only "natural" that they dislike their parents stuffy old "Sunday morning club" and that's the message they'll pick up on.