Am I overdoing the whole "submission" thing?

[Kristina]

My sister gave me this book called "You Can Be the Wife of a Happy Husband" for Christmas. It was all about the issue of submission in our marriages. At first, I thought it was silly and quit reading it. After about two months and a lot of tension and disagreements between my husband and myself, I found myself picking it back up again. I was amazed about some of the most basic principles of a happy marriage that I had just not been following. I really liked what she said, even though a lot of what was mentioned seemed geared toward older readers than myself...but it worked! With a little submission, both of our attitudes have shifted and the fights ceased.

Now it's a week later, and I'm trying to keep it up. It's really hard. I feel like I have to be on my toes all the time to make sure that I say the right encouraging things at the right time...and to avoid conflict and go along with what he says and trust God to correct the problems. I try to do sweet things in the morning like make him lunch and listen to all his issues without leaving the room or interrupting, not be worried when he doesn't call me and doesn't come home until early in the morning, but I'm just getting absolutely exhausted. I know I'm supposed to continuously be submitted to him, and that through my husband God is working to make my walk with him closer, but am I overdoing it? Basically, I'm curious. I mean, is there such a thing as submitting too much?

 

[handy]

Yes, I think there can be "too much" of submission, let's face it, there can be "too much" of just about any thing we humans set our hands to do.


Wifely submission is a good thing...but, it's important to define just what it is...

Encouragement to one's husband...yes.
Standing by his decisions...yes.
Deferring to him...yes.

But, it's not a blanket "It-doesn't-matter-what-you-do-I'm-going-to-submit" attitude on the part of the wife. Wifely submission is different than parental authority where the parents can basically say "my way or the high-way" and the kids are to obey (not that this is a good recipe for parenting either).

Wifely submission is far more about being a partner, but one who defers to the "senior partner" so to speak.

If he's not coming home until early in the morning, and not calling you and explaining why...if you feel like you're walking on egg shells to make sure that you "say the right thing"...these are red flags...why is he doing these things? As his partner in life, you do have a right to talk with him about issues in your marriage.

Nor is wifely submission to be "ego stroking" even when he's doing wrong.

Encouragement is one thing. Our husbands do well when they know we "got his back". Exhortation, when he's clearly going off track is another thing though. I have to admit, if my husband was neglecting his responsibilities here at home and staying out until all hours with no explanation...yeah, I'd be exhorting him to live up to his responsibilities as a husband.

It sounds as if you are on the right track...and your testimony as to things being better and attitudes changing is encouraging. But, you truly don't need to be a doormat, nor to never say anything negative to him...

 

[Hitch]

What Handy said.

 

[PouringRain]

I wouldn't say that you are overdoing it..... at least not from what it sounds like. There have been discussions on this forum before and for the most part everyone agrees that every couple is different.

Submission to ones husband should never be something that should ever harm the wife-- physically, emotionally, etc. It doesn't sound like anything you said is harmful (i.e. he isn't asking you to do things that are inappropriate or that you find morally reprehensible, etc.).

But you are exhausted! I think it is important to ask yourself why you are exhausted. One thing I noticed is you mentioned what sounds like a complete overhaul in your behavior, speech, actions, etc. Wow! That is exhausting just talking about it! Of course you are tired. You are working very hard at changing things about yourself. That is never an easy thing.

I think it is wonderful that you are seeking to make positive changes in yourself for the sake of your marriage. You seem to have a very positive attitude towards this-- and that is a good thing. It seems like your motivations are right (i.e. changing to improve yourself, your marriage, and draw closer to God).

(BTW I once heard a pastor's wife talk about early in her marriage when God convicted her of being upset about her husband staying out too late and being off playing basketball with his friends all the time.)

I do want to say one thing... in Christian circles we often tell women that if they are just perfect enough then so will their marriage be. If the woman does X,Y and Z then her husband will also desire to be the man God wants him to be. If she gives him unconditional respect, then he will in turn give her love. Even the title of the book you read implies it: Submit and your husband will be happy. The problem is that it takes two for a marriage to work. The wife can strive to be as perfect as possible, but this is never a guarantee that the husband will be happy or will develop a desire to also strive to be a godly husband.

When you do these things for your husband-- do them with the attitude that this is a gift. Expect nothing in return. Learn to submit in joy, for no reason other than your desire to give of yourself. Submitting to ones spouse should be a positive experience, not something that becomes a burden to carry.

Find Christian women who are older than you that you can spend time with and can help encourage you. Maybe there is a ladies bible study you could attend once a week.

Find activities that you enjoy doing. The worst thing for you would be if you sit home worrying about where he is or what he is doing. Instead, find things that will pass the time and you can find fulfillment in. Maybe get an education or a part time job (if you don't already have one). You may think about doing some volunteer work.

 

[Alabaster]

Yes, I think there can be "too much" of submission, let's face it, there can be "too much" of just about any thing we humans set our hands to do.


Wifely submission is a good thing...but, it's important to define just what it is...

Encouragement to one's husband...yes.
Standing by his decisions...yes.
Deferring to him...yes.

But, it's not a blanket "It-doesn't-matter-what-you-do-I'm-going-to-submit" attitude on the part of the wife. Wifely submission is different than parental authority where the parents can basically say "my way or the high-way" and the kids are to obey (not that this is a good recipe for parenting either).

Wifely submission is far more about being a partner, but one who defers to the "senior partner" so to speak.

If he's not coming home until early in the morning, and not calling you and explaining why...if you feel like you're walking on egg shells to make sure that you "say the right thing"...these are red flags...why is he doing these things? As his partner in life, you do have a right to talk with him about issues in your marriage.

Nor is wifely submission to be "ego stroking" even when he's doing wrong.

Encouragement is one thing. Our husbands do well when they know we "got his back". Exhortation, when he's clearly going off track is another thing though. I have to admit, if my husband was neglecting his responsibilities here at home and staying out until all hours with no explanation...yeah, I'd be exhorting him to live up to his responsibilities as a husband.

It sounds as if you are on the right track...and your testimony as to things being better and attitudes changing is encouraging. But, you truly don't need to be a doormat, nor to never say anything negative to him...

If there's a book for the husband by the same author, she ought to get that for the husband to read.

 

[handy]

I do want to say one thing... in Christian circles we often tell women that if they are just perfect enough then so will their marriage be. If the woman does X,Y and Z then her husband will also desire to be the man God wants him to be. If she gives him unconditional respect, then he will in turn give her love. Even the title of the book you read implies it: Submit and your husband will be happy. The problem is that it takes two for a marriage to work. The wife can strive to be as perfect as possible, but this is never a guarantee that the husband will be happy or will develop a desire to also strive to be a godly husband.

Pouring Rain's post was great all the way through, but I really wanted to second this part of it! The reason to submit to one's husband is because it is what God calls us to do...not as part of a husband renewal plan.

 

[l'Chante]

Ladies and gentlemen, I am not cut out for marriage.

 

[Alabaster]

Ladies and gentlemen, I am not cut out for marriage.

LOL! No one is if they take books like that seriously!

 

[handy]

You know ladies, one might get the impression from these last two posts that Christian wives are not called to submit to one's husband.

 

[Alabaster]

You know ladies, one might get the impression from these last two posts that Christian wives are not called to submit to one's husband.

We are called to submit to our husbands. In a good and loving marriage, we submit one to another.

I just find the book in the OP is teaching something that isn't ALWAYS practical in a marriage that is troubled or unequal.

 

[l'Chante]

You know ladies, one might get the impression from these last two posts that Christian wives are not called to submit to one's husband.

Nope. I said that I'm not cut out for marriage. At all.

 

[handy]

l'Chante, ;) You know, I really had to stop and think...after almost 20 years of single adulthood, whether or not I would ever be cut out for marriage. It was something to think about during my engagement, to be sure. Not to mention a bit of a struggle there for a while...


Alabaster...I share some of your same concerns about the book...because there is a lot of bad books about wifely submission out there. I know there is one book entitled "Me. Obey Him?" which teaches that a wife should obey her husband in every single thing, no exceptions, all the time. As a matter of fact, the writer of "Me. Obey Him?" states, "She is to obey her husband as if he were God Himself" even if the husband is not a Christian.

Wrong.....

The writer of "Happy Husband" is a woman by the name of Darien B Cooper and on her website, she has excerpts from the "Happy Husband" book. I find she doesn't teach unqualified obedience and does address troubled marriages and serious issues. In Chapter 8 she deals with abusive situations and discusses that "You did not cause your husband to be abusive" specifically stating that "your husband must take full responsibility for his own sinful actions and reactions"; also, "You cannot save your husband" and "Submission does not mean that you condone or receive abuse." In reading through these subtexts, I found her advice to be very sound and very biblical.

 

[Alabaster]

l'Chante, ;) You know, I really had to stop and think...after almost 20 years of single adulthood, whether or not I would ever be cut out for marriage. It was something to think about during my engagement, to be sure. Not to mention a bit of a struggle there for a while...


Alabaster...I share some of your same concerns about the book...because there is a lot of bad books about wifely submission out there. I know there is one book entitled "Me. Obey Him?" which teaches that a wife should obey her husband in every single thing, no exceptions, all the time. As a matter of fact, the writer of "Me. Obey Him?" states, "She is to obey her husband as if he were God Himself" even if the husband is not a Christian.

Wrong.....

The writer of "Happy Husband" is a woman by the name of Darien B Cooper and on her website, she has excerpts from the "Happy Husband" book. I find she doesn't teach unqualified obedience and does address troubled marriages and serious issues. In Chapter 8 she deals with abusive situations and discusses that "You did not cause your husband to be abusive" specifically stating that "your husband must take full responsibility for his own sinful actions and reactions"; also, "You cannot save your husband" and "Submission does not mean that you condone or receive abuse." In reading through these subtexts, I found her advice to be very sound and very biblical.

Thanks for that, Handy.

 

[reba]

I am a submissive wife to an unsaved husband I am submissive unto him as unto the Lord.

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

The scriptures dont say, to me, be submissive to the the good guy it says to be submissive to my 'own husband'.

1Co 7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

To a christian husband as the leader of the home i would thump him with


Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;


1Pe 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

 

[PouringRain]

In Chapter 8 she deals with abusive situations and discusses that "You did not cause your husband to be abusive" specifically stating that "your husband must take full responsibility for his own sinful actions and reactions"; also, "You cannot save your husband" and "Submission does not mean that you condone or receive abuse." In reading through these subtexts, I found her advice to be very sound and very biblical.

Thanks for looking her site up. I'm glad to see that she addresses these issues.

I am a submissive wife to an unsaved husband I am submissive unto him as unto the Lord.

I was also....

 

[reba]

I am a submissive wife to an unsaved husband I am submissive unto him as unto the Lord. Let me rephrase "i try to be"

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

The scriptures dont say, to me, be submissive to the the good guy it says to be submissive to my 'own husband'.

1Co 7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

To a christian husband as the leader of the home i would thump him with


Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;


1Pe 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

 

[theophilus3213]

My sister gave me this book called "You Can Be

but I'm just getting absolutelyexhausted. I know I'm supposed to continuously be submitted to him, and that through my husband God is working to make my walk with him closer, but am I overdoing it? Basically, I'm curious. I mean, is there such a thing as submitting too much?

I was married for 3 years, and the first 6 months of my marraige was fantastic! Then my wife started rebelling against Gods rules and that destroyed our marriage. But during the first six months my wife and I lived what the bible teaches on marriage, and as a result, the Glory of God rested in our apt. It was awsome!

learning any new behavior is always difficult at first. It takes time to get used to it, and it will take diligence to maintain it! But now that you are finally obeying God by submitting to your husband, you can be sure that Satan is going to do everything that he can to get you to stop obeying him. you need to learn how to draw strength from God through prayer, and meditation so that you can withstand the wiles of the devil; who wants to destroy your new found holiness!

Now to answer your question, no there is no such thing as submitting too much! God expects you to obey your husband in the same manner as the church obeys Jesus. God has made your husband your Lord and Master and you must obey him in all things! Although there are times when you should not submit to him such as if he should tell you that he wants you to have sex with another man. You have a clear command from God that you are not to commit adultery. And Gods laws always supersede your husbands commands. (see Acts 5:1-ff.) So the only time that you are ever to disobey your husband is if he tells you to do something that is contrary to a clear command of God.

Heres some scriptures that deal with the subject:

Num 30
30:1 And Moses spake unto the heads of the tribes concerning the children of
Israel, saying, This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded.
2 If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a
bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth
out of his mouth.
3 If a woman also vow a vow unto the LORD, and bind herself by a bond, being
in her father's house in her youth;
4 And her father hear her vow, and her bond wherewith she hath bound her
soul, and her father shall hold his peace at her: then all her vows shall stand, and every bond wherewith she hath bound her soul shall stand.
5 But if her father disallow her in the day that he heareth; not any of her
vows, or of her bonds wherewith she hath bound her soul, shall stand: and the
LORD shall forgive her, because her father disallowed her.
6 And if she had at all an husband, when she vowed, or uttered ought out of her lips, wherewith she bound her soul;
7 And her husband heard it, and held his peace at her in the day that he
heard it: then her vows shall stand, and her bonds wherewith she bound her soul
shall stand.
8 But if her husband disallowed her on the day that he heard it; then he
shall make her vow which she vowed, and that which she uttered with her lips,
wherewith she bound her soul, of none effect: and the LORD shall forgive her.
9 But every vow of a widow, and of her that is divorced, wherewith they have
bound their souls, shall stand against her.
10 And if she vowed in her husband's house, or bound her soul by a bond with
an oath;
11 And her husband heard it, and held his peace at her, and disallowed her
not: then all her vows shall stand, and every bond wherewith she bound her soul
shall stand.
12 But if her husband hath utterly made them void on the day he heard them;
then whatsoever proceeded out of her lips concerning her vows, or concerning
the bond of her soul, shall not stand: her husband hath made them void; and the
LORD shall forgive her.
13 Every vow, and every binding oath to afflict the soul, her husband may establish it, or her husband may make it void.
14 But if her husband altogether hold his peace at her from day to day; then
he establisheth all her vows, or all her bonds, which are upon her: he confirmeth them, because he held his peace at her in the day that he heard them.
15 But if he shall any ways make them void after that he hath heard them; then he shall bear her iniquity.16 These are the statutes, which the LORD commanded Moses, between a man and his wife, between the father and his daughter, being yet in her youth in her father's house. KJV

cont.

 

[theophilus3213]

(cont.)

Col 3:18-19
18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the
Lord. 19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them. KJV

Eph 5:22-33

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church
: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave
himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot,
or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be
joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as
himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband. KJV

1 Peter 3:1-7

3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; 4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving
honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered. KJV

Titus 2:3-5

3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness,
not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands,
to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands
, that the word of God be not blasphemed. KJV

From these passages it is clear that a wife is to obey her husband. But this
is not a natural thing to do. It will take a great deal of effort to bring your will into subjection to your husbands will. At first this will be verydifficult for you to do. But the more that you do it, the easier it will become. The secret is to spend a lot of time with God in prayer, asking Him to give you the strength, and ability to submit your self to your husbands will. For without the power of god operating through, you cannot walk in obedience to either God or your husband! Whenever your husband asks you to do something, turn over your desire to disobey him to Jesus and ask him to remove the rebellion from your heart and to give you the strength to obey your husband; and He will! Start thanking God for your husband every day! Thank God for the fact that your husband is your lord. Thank God for commanding you to obey your husband. Thank God for the the strength that He gives you to obey him. Thank God for the tasks that your husband commands you to do. Thank God for everything! If you do these things, eventually it will become easy for you to obey your husband. It's just a matter of time. But for a while it will not be easy for you to do all of this. But I can guarantee that it is worth the effort! For if you will prove yourself in this, God will fill you with His love and joy, and the glory of God will fill your home. In the last 35 years of my walk with God, I have only seen 3 marriages where this was practiced. In all three instances the couple walked in the love and joy of God every day! they had nothing but peace, love, and joy in their marriage and in their home! And the glory of God resided in their home!

Have a great day.

 

[Alabaster]

When a husband obeys God and fulfills his role as a husband, which is to LOVE his wife sacrificially, then it is no hardship for a wife to respect her husband and go along with him.

That is the arrangement. I have a husband like that, and I have no problem respecting him. We make decisions together because we are equals before God. If there is a difference between us in a way we should go, my trust in my husband as a man of God and one who loves me like Jesus, makes it no difficulty whatsoever to heed his way. However, it is worth saying, as I hold the wisdom gift in the relationship (as many wives do!), my husband most often chooses to defer to my judgment.

 

[handy]

When a husband obeys God and fulfills his role as a husband, which is to LOVE his wife sacrificially, then it is no hardship for a wife to respect her husband and go along with him.

That is the arrangement. I have a husband like that, and I have no problem respecting him. We make decisions together because we are equals before God. If there is a difference between us in a way we should go, my trust in my husband as a man of God and one who loves me like Jesus, makes it no difficulty whatsoever to heed his way. However, it is worth saying, as I hold the wisdom gift in the relationship (as many wives do!), my husband most often chooses to defer to my judgment.

This is how it works in my marriage as well. And, it is no hardship to submit to him when we have a difference of agreement.