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Atlas Shrugged

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Pizza

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I am 80% thru this book. I NEVER read novels, can't stand them - but this one I cant put down.

Am I the only one here to have read it? It is way over 1,000 pages - quite a lot to tackle, and I've actually had to take notes to keep some stuff organized in my mind.

Man, could this lady write.
 
Ayn Rand in Atlas Shrugged said:
Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money...

Ayn warned about the dangers of inflation. Ayn wanted to protect the people from inflation via a gold standard. Good girl.
 
Here's a site that might help out a bit, Pizza .... it has some good points. http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/atlasshrugged/facts.html
I'm glad I didn't look at that link until I finished the book - it gives too much away. I suspected as much, and have not read any reviews for that very reason.

From your link: Rand’s underlying attitude toward modern society is bitterly ironic and satirical.
That may be true, (I'm not convinced it is) but "ironic and satirical" does not at ALL describe Atlas Shrugged.


Atlas Shrugged is Ann's exaggerated story of what she warns can happen to our world if we loose sight of the importance of what us older persons call our "work ethic". In the book, the drive to abandon the work ethic is collectivism. (And let us not get lost in terms here - by "collectivism" I mean the practice or principle of giving a group priority over each individual in it.)

In the book, nations all over the world are nationalizing private property and businesses. But in the USA, this is not the case - there is no indication in the book that nationalizing of private property was ever the idea. Instead, the wrong-headed economic and political leaders of the day were only driven by the 'ideal' of "making things fair for all". Their plan was for a planned economy where all commerce was privately owned, but regulated not ONLY by government, but by co-operative boards or commissions made up of members of private industry. These boards would participate in the operations of the planned economy.

Even without the OBVIOUS corruption that would follow from such a structure, failure of the various industries would be inevitable. The book does a very good job of detailing the mess that such a system would become.

But there are even more profound lessons taught by this book. In rather subtle ways, Atlas Shrugged makes the case for WHY some of us invent, build and develop products or services that you see all around you. We all assume that people like Bill Gates develop companies like Microsoft to become rich. Money motivates ALL of us. But there is much more to those who build success on the foundation of a product or service they develop themselves. In the over 1,000 pages of this book, we spend a lot of time looking at the minds of those who devote their lives to endeavors like those of Ford, Edison or Taggert.

But we learn something else: We learn just how much OTHERS profit and benefit from the efforts of those who build, invent and develop products or services. Think about the unskilled laborer. The unskilled laborer, 300 years ago, could only work enough to feed himself and provide some shelter from the elements. Today, the unskilled can go to work at most any menial job and earn (not very much) money which can, of course, buy food and shelter. But it can do a LOT more, it can buy all of the wonderful gadgets made possible by greater minds and much greater efforts. In his great speech (which is way too long), John Galt explains: "When you work in a modern factory, you are paid, not only for your labor, but for all the productive genius which has made that factory possible...." The "genius" he means includes the investors who made the plant possible, the engineers who invented the equipment of the plant, the inventors who made the generation and use of electric power possible, the person who developed the product you are making, etc.

The over riding lesson is that is it WRONG HEADED if you do not appreciate the impact these other people have made - and the opportuniteis they make possible for all.

Of course, one other major topic is John Galt's credo: "I swear, by my life and my love for it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." Well, I never have done either, and never will.
 
Their plan was for a planned economy...

Yes, bank economic central planning has become the fashion in the west. A committee of bankers have used the printing press to centrally plan empty McMansions, and other types of Keynesian pyramids. Keynes taught that John Galt type investors were completely useless, and should be eliminated from society:

John Maynard Keynes said:
It will be, moreover, a great advantage of the order of events which I am advocating, that the euthanasia of the rentier, of the functionless investor...

When the US followed gold standard free market capitalism, we were #1 in GDP by a fantastic margin. No one else was even close. Now that the gold standard has been eliminated, we are #2 in GDP, and moving backward. A century ago, Argentina was one of the richest per capita nations on earth. Then the bank started printing, and now they have what they have today.
 
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The Fountainhead is next for me - but I understand it is almost a "prequel" to Atlas Shrugged".
 
Do any of you have a problem with Ayn Rands Objectivists philosophies that are the underlying theme behind Atals Shrugged and the Fountainhead. At her core, she advocated for some pretty anti christian things - does this influence you guys one way or the other towards her?
 
I do believe I am the only one here to have read Atlas Shrugged, Abdullah.
I wanted to discuss THE BOOK, but I see that is impossible on this site.

I was a fool for even trying. (Im just a pizzaguy in a dunce cap, it seems......)
 
I read it in high school, but i was not too interested in free market economocs (seeing as the world was going to end in 2000 anyways). I wish I could discuss it with you, but I dont remeber much of it. I bacame more interested in Ayn Rands philosophies later, around the time Glen Beck started hyping her up. I discovered some crazy stuff about her and I always wondered how Glen Beck, a hardcore christian (mormon), could stand by her when she advocated for the abortion of babies with Downs sydrome.
 
Why did i have the idea this thread was to be about the book?

Do all book discussions end up being about dirt on the author .

Grapes of Wrath was a good read lets trash the Steinbeck :shame
 
I do believe I am the only one here to have read Atlas Shrugged, Abdullah.
I wanted to discuss THE BOOK, but I see that is impossible on this site.

I was a fool for even trying. (Im just a pizzaguy in a dunce cap, it seems......)
I haven't read Atlas Shrugged, but I read the Fountain Head and Anthem ( and some of here philosophical writtings, but I wont go into that unless interested).

I find Rand very interesting and agree with most of here points in the Fountainhead, Atlas Shrugged, and Anthem, but I find here writing style to be very drawn out and redundant. I basically understood where the Fountainhead was going about 100 pages in, but I had 700 pages to go and it was a chore. The characters are interesting to be sure, but the message feels beaten in.

I've noticed that Rand fans are divided on the 2 Novels when it comes to which one was better, The fountainhead focuses more on 2 characters and their approach to their lives while Atlas Shrugged was more about the society.

Anthem is very short but conveys the messages of both books in a more compact way.

Morals
The Fountainhead - A man's life is their own and you fully own it. Your life is best won by the sweat of your brow and more fulfilled by the acts of your drive than by the impressing of others. Your creations are your own and no one else's.

Atlas Shrugged - We do what we do because we are driven to it. The masses don't care about the individual, but about their own base survival. If anything threatens the masses, they will destroy you the individual and drag you down. Sometimes you just have to walk away and let the masses deteriorate so they can learn how valuable you really are.

Anthem - Even when driven to extreme persecution, and your identity is taken away and replaced with the masses, a man who yearns for their freedom and their work, will always be free and always the enemy of those who seek to destroy the concept of the "self".
 
I bought The Fountainhead for my Kindle yesterday - I will start reading it on my (usual) Monday flight to Michigan today.

I agree that Atlas Shrugged was just too long - Galt's 2-3 hour speech was a bit much. Or was it? It read like some of Plato's and Aristotle's stuff - is the problem here my lack of intellect?

I've been reading some of the reviews and analysis of AS as well, indeed, there is a lot of deep stuff in there. As long as it is, I will most certainly read it again.

ADMISSION: I was SO dense, I never caught on who Eddie was talking to in the terminal cafeteria until the very end. THAT was a "duh" moment - I THOUGH his talks with the worker were just part of the narrative - I had no clue who that guy was. DDDDUUUUHHHHH!!!!! (See what I mean about my lack of intellect?)
 
I bought The Fountainhead for my Kindle yesterday - I will start reading it on my (usual) Monday flight to Michigan today.

I agree that Atlas Shrugged was just too long - Galt's 2-3 hour speech was a bit much. Or was it? It read like some of Plato's and Aristotle's stuff - is the problem here my lack of intellect?
Nah, its not really about intellect at all. I think it has more to do with Tone and a literature concept called "show don't tell". When Galt gives his speech the concept of show don't tell is abandoned and it no longer reads as a story, but as a text. In all three of Rand's novels/novellas they end with a speech. Its a jarring abrupt stop to pacing and actually steps out of the realm of story telling. The interaction changes from interpretation on your part, to being told what is going on. I loved Anthem and the speech was great, the only problem I had with it, is the story beat the concept into me already. I didn't need the speech at the end to pull it all together

I've been reading some of the reviews and analysis of AS as well, indeed, there is a lot of deep stuff in there. As long as it is, I will most certainly read it again.
Awesome. I've seen the synopses and seen the 3 part movie ( ok the first 2 parts, I'm having trouble finding the third, they need to release it as a box set now that its finished.) and read a lot of research and analysis on it. I went into the Fountain head and Anthem blind though.

ADMISSION: I was SO dense, I never caught on who Eddie was talking to in the terminal cafeteria until the very end. THAT was a "duh" moment - I THOUGH his talks with the worker were just part of the narrative - I had no clue who that guy was. DDDDUUUUHHHHH!!!!! (See what I mean about my lack of intellect?)
Nah man, the book is extremely dense. Rand throws a lot at you at one time. She is similar to Stephen King in that regard, but Kind remembers to not monologue as much. :tongue I read Anthem 3 times before picking up some of the subtleties. Heck Anthem is probably the hardest to get into since you have to get used to the fact the there are no individualist pronouns. Its something you only pick up after about halfway through, and you need to reread to figure out when Rand is talking about the main character or an actual group.

It reminds me a lot of how in A Clockwork Orange, Burgess uses a lot of alien slang that takes a little getting used to to fully grasp the concepts. Hooray context clues.
 
Ayn Rand was an atheist and saw virtue in selfishness. Her views are antithetical to Christianity.
so lets also renounce martin luther. the man hated jews after the reformation. lets not commit the logical fallacy of poisoning the well.
 
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