Ed the Ned
Member
Please follow the following link, this link echo's my concerns, even more so.
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/010/avatar.htm
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/010/avatar.htm
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AVATAR! a mockery of Christ?
- Thread starter Ed the Ned
- Start date
I haven't read very much of the rest of this thread, but I'll start off giving my two cents by answering the three popular questions:
1) Are you a Christian?:
Yes, very much so.
2) Have you seen AVATAR!?:
Yes, today actually.
3) Were you uncomfortable?:
No, and in no way do I feel that I should have been.
-----
This movie in meant to be purely fictional. It was an enjoyable film, and in no way made me uncomfortable.
You have mentioned that this fictional film has religious ties to Hinduism.
So what? If a Christian can't merely enjoy a fictional movie with ties to another religion, that is what makes me uncomfortable.
I don't feel that AVATAR! was in anyway "evil", so, I don't feel the need to distance myself from it.
A mockery of Christ? Hardly. The movie in no way directly or indirectly mocks Christianity, it merely incorporates Hinduism into it (if that). In fact, if I gathered correctly, some of the human charecters in this movie are professing Christians.
1) Are you a Christian?:
Yes, very much so.
2) Have you seen AVATAR!?:
Yes, today actually.
3) Were you uncomfortable?:
No, and in no way do I feel that I should have been.
-----
This movie in meant to be purely fictional. It was an enjoyable film, and in no way made me uncomfortable.
You have mentioned that this fictional film has religious ties to Hinduism.
So what? If a Christian can't merely enjoy a fictional movie with ties to another religion, that is what makes me uncomfortable.
I don't feel that AVATAR! was in anyway "evil", so, I don't feel the need to distance myself from it.
A mockery of Christ? Hardly. The movie in no way directly or indirectly mocks Christianity, it merely incorporates Hinduism into it (if that). In fact, if I gathered correctly, some of the human charecters in this movie are professing Christians.
Ed the Ned
The Biblical account of Creation in Genesis chapters 1 & 2 is a myth. Why? Because there are several other creation accounts that are somewhat the same. They are mythological from everyone’s perspective. Ergo, the Biblical account of Creation in Genesis chapters 1 & 2 must be a myth also. Death of a Biblical passage by association.
That is exactly what I think of the supposed relationship between Avatar and the Hindu religion. Bunch of malarkey.
The DVD is supposed to come out in April. I can’t wait to see the real movie. The movie called Avatar that I watched was so different from the one that these conspiracy people keep talking about. Strange, because the movie that I saw didn’t even bother to change the names of the characters. I have already mentioned twice that the tree was not the God of the Na’vi. At least not in the version that I saw.
I am suspicious of these people who are relating Avatar to Hinduism. I think that they are undercover Hindus. It’s a conspiracy to undermine the Christian religion, by comparing the beautiful planet of Pandora that is related to Hinduism to the reality of the Western world that is related to Christianity. You obviously like conspiracy theories. At least you seem to have bought into this one hook, line, and sinker.
““worship their goddessâ€â€
Was a goddess even mentioned in this movie? The version that I watched didn’t have one. It did have a female Spiritual leader that was the mother of Neytiri.
““To avoid war, they brought a scientific team trained to befriend the indigenous Na'vi people and persuade them to move.â€â€
Why did the Corporation bother if they’re just going to take what they want anyway using the mercenaries? Oh, wait, the mercenaries are just for protection against the big bad Na’vi. Kind of lost their sense of purpose and perspective in the end, didn’t they?
““Do you wonder why Neytiri carries a bow and arrow when all life is one?â€â€
Why wouldn’t a people who hunt for their food carry bows and arrows? There wasn’t any intimation that these people were vegetarians. And some of the creatures hunt for their fauna food also. They eat flora and fauna just like we do. Just because there is a oneness of nature, in no way implies that the planet was not dangerous. The first thing that the head of security mentions is how dangerous the planet is. It's so dangerous that "you might want to go to hell for some R and R". But as Jake was to discover, it's not so dangerous if you know what you're doing. In fact it's quite beautiful.
““He prays to Eywa for help, and she answers his plea. She summons birds and beasts of every kind. With such an army, how could they lose?â€â€
I’ve already said something about this twice. Once on this thread. Was there a goddess even mentioned in the movie? Like I say, the movie that I watched isn’t the same one that these people are talking about.
““ "Ever since I went to see 'Avatar' I have been depressed. Watching the wonderful world of Pandora and all the Na'vi made me want to be one of them. I can't stop thinking about all the things that happened in the film... I even contemplate suicide thinking that if I do it I will be rebirthed in a world similar to Pandora...'" â€â€
If there are people out there who are having this kind of problem, I sure hope that they are under the care of a Psychiatrist. People who can’t handle reality sure need it. On the one hand I ask, only thousands out of millions if not billions? On the other hand I ask, wow, are there that many crazies out there? By the way, a person who is into reincarnation (rebirthed) isn’t a Christian. So at least we can say that this particular nut isn’t a Christian.
““Jake -- incarnated in his Na'vi avatarâ€â€
Remarkable! Jake is a god who has been “incarnated†as an Avatar. In the movie that I saw, Jake was scientifically connected to a soulless creature created scientifically out of Na’vi DNA and DNA of specific humans. I wonder where and how the Corporation got that Na’vi DNA?
Ok, that’s enough malarkey. Can’t you see what is going on here?
I’ll wait for Cameron to come out and say that Avatar is based on Hinduism. Until then, anyone who sees such a conspiracy is as nutty as the person above who wanted to commit suicide and be reincarnated on Pandora.
Additional note:
I just looked up on Google “James Cameron and the Hindu religionâ€. There are posts that came out before the movie came out, that refer to the Hindus who are upset that Cameron is stepping on their religion. Now I understand where these “Christian†conspirators are getting their material.
I don’t know if this is legal, and I don’t have a clue as to the use of links, but I have to point out this piece:
MOVIE "AVATAR" AND SPIRITUALITY - alt.religion.hindu | Google Groups
as employed in the film clearly has nothing to do with religion and .... Hindus ask for a disclaimer with James Cameron's 'Avatar'. By ANI November 9, 2009 ...
groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.hindu/.../7a16b54e8efdfc17 -
Avatar's reversal of fortune
By Maxim Osipov
The Sydney Morning Herald
Monday, January 4, 2010
Avatar box office tops $1bn
James Cameron's 'Avatar' shoots past one billion dollars worldwide,
only the fifth movie to hit that mark.
With the dazzling 3D-vortex of colours, actions and emotions, James
Cameron's Avatar seems to have given everyone something to rave
about.
But let's get it straight -- Avatar is a downright misnomer for this
latest new blockbuster.
No, not because, sadly for Hare Krishna moviegoers, the film's got
nothing to do with Hinduism except its Sanskrit name. And some Hindu
activists who habitually frisk all new releases for concealed
sacrileges also needn't worry -- there are none in Avatar, or at
least not more than in those little digital icons they hide
themselves behind on their own e-chats.
[Caption] The path taken by Sam Worthington's character in James
Cameron's Avatar reverses the meaning of the Sanskrit word.
It's because the movie reverses the very concept that the term
"avatar" is based on.
Leave aside the fact that Hindu theology reserves the use of
"avatar", which in Sanskrit literally means "descent", almost
exclusively for appearances of Vishnu on Earth. The key point here is
that an avatar always descends from a higher realm into the lower,
restores prosperity, wisdom, and happiness -- and moves on unchanged
after the mission is accomplished.
However, the "avatar" Jake Sully -- and we the viewers along with him
-- shortly after his descent into the world of Na'vis sees the
"higher" realm of earthlings rapidly grow pallid and repulsive in
comparison to the pristine world of supposed savages. The "civilized
humans" turn out as primitive, jaded and increasingly greedy,
cynical, and brutal -- traits only amplified by their machinery --
while the "monkey aliens" emerge as noble, kind, wise, sensitive, and
humane.
We, along with the "Avatar" hero, are now faced with an
uncomfortable yet irresistible choice between the two races and the
two worldviews. And invariably, along with him we cannot help but
lean toward the far more civilized insides within the long-tailed,
blue-skinned, and technologically infantile exterior.
So much for a descending "avatar". Jake soon admits to himself in his
videolog: "I realized that I had it backwards, I wasn't sure what was
the dream and what was real." Having regained through the avatar body
not just his legs, but his dignity, his freedom, and his brethren
whose love and trust he struggles to earn, the rescuer becomes the
rescued, the benefactor becomes the benefited. The "avatar" becomes
. . well . . . a refugee among the aborigines so content inwardly
that they wouldn't trade their tree for whatever the savvy "sky
people" gods have to offer! Contrary to The Matrix's Neo, Jake plugs
into a supposedly illusory world to discover it to be much more
tangible, wholesome and true than his own -- and wants to stay in.
This makes us ask the question: Why? And what on Earth (or on
Pandora) do "culture", "civilization", and "human" stand for?
Not succumbing to the stock trifle of sci-fi genre, James Cameron
makes this question the fourth dimension of his movie -- and answers
it most convincingly: It's the qualities of kindness, gratitude,
regard for the elderly, self-sacrifice, respect for all life and
ultimately humble dependence on a higher intelligence behind nature
that qualify one as cultured, civilized, and human.
The other alternative is summed up by Jake Sully: "This is how it's
done. When people are sitting on something that you want, you make
them your enemy so that you can drive them out." And "They have
already killed their mother". Here you have it, the savage -- give or
take his spaceship, touch-screen and a rifle.
And getting back to the Hindu theology, Bhagavad-gita (16.1-4) echoes
this distinction: "Fearlessness; cultivation of wisdom; charity;
self-control; austerity; simplicity; refrain from unnecessary
violence; truthfulness; freedom from hatred; renunciation;
tranquility; aversion to fault-finding; compassion for all living
entities; freedom from covetousness; gentleness; modesty; steady
determination; vigour; forgiveness; fortitude; cleanliness; and
freedom from envy and from the passion for honour -- these are
qualities befitting real civilized humans.
"Pride, arrogance, conceit, anger, harshness and ignorance are
qualities of barbarians."
In order to descend -- that is, to be an avatar -- one first ought to
be above. Unfortunately for our civilization, epitomized by the human
conquistadors on Pandora, from the place where we are happily getting
ourselves into, we can only climb.
Maxim Osipov is a student of Sanskrit and Indian philosophy and a
follower of the Hare Krishna movement since 1991. Mukunda Goswami
contributed to this article.
JamesG
The Biblical account of Creation in Genesis chapters 1 & 2 is a myth. Why? Because there are several other creation accounts that are somewhat the same. They are mythological from everyone’s perspective. Ergo, the Biblical account of Creation in Genesis chapters 1 & 2 must be a myth also. Death of a Biblical passage by association.
That is exactly what I think of the supposed relationship between Avatar and the Hindu religion. Bunch of malarkey.
The DVD is supposed to come out in April. I can’t wait to see the real movie. The movie called Avatar that I watched was so different from the one that these conspiracy people keep talking about. Strange, because the movie that I saw didn’t even bother to change the names of the characters. I have already mentioned twice that the tree was not the God of the Na’vi. At least not in the version that I saw.
I am suspicious of these people who are relating Avatar to Hinduism. I think that they are undercover Hindus. It’s a conspiracy to undermine the Christian religion, by comparing the beautiful planet of Pandora that is related to Hinduism to the reality of the Western world that is related to Christianity. You obviously like conspiracy theories. At least you seem to have bought into this one hook, line, and sinker.
““worship their goddessâ€â€
Was a goddess even mentioned in this movie? The version that I watched didn’t have one. It did have a female Spiritual leader that was the mother of Neytiri.
““To avoid war, they brought a scientific team trained to befriend the indigenous Na'vi people and persuade them to move.â€â€
Why did the Corporation bother if they’re just going to take what they want anyway using the mercenaries? Oh, wait, the mercenaries are just for protection against the big bad Na’vi. Kind of lost their sense of purpose and perspective in the end, didn’t they?
““Do you wonder why Neytiri carries a bow and arrow when all life is one?â€â€
Why wouldn’t a people who hunt for their food carry bows and arrows? There wasn’t any intimation that these people were vegetarians. And some of the creatures hunt for their fauna food also. They eat flora and fauna just like we do. Just because there is a oneness of nature, in no way implies that the planet was not dangerous. The first thing that the head of security mentions is how dangerous the planet is. It's so dangerous that "you might want to go to hell for some R and R". But as Jake was to discover, it's not so dangerous if you know what you're doing. In fact it's quite beautiful.
““He prays to Eywa for help, and she answers his plea. She summons birds and beasts of every kind. With such an army, how could they lose?â€â€
I’ve already said something about this twice. Once on this thread. Was there a goddess even mentioned in the movie? Like I say, the movie that I watched isn’t the same one that these people are talking about.
““ "Ever since I went to see 'Avatar' I have been depressed. Watching the wonderful world of Pandora and all the Na'vi made me want to be one of them. I can't stop thinking about all the things that happened in the film... I even contemplate suicide thinking that if I do it I will be rebirthed in a world similar to Pandora...'" â€â€
If there are people out there who are having this kind of problem, I sure hope that they are under the care of a Psychiatrist. People who can’t handle reality sure need it. On the one hand I ask, only thousands out of millions if not billions? On the other hand I ask, wow, are there that many crazies out there? By the way, a person who is into reincarnation (rebirthed) isn’t a Christian. So at least we can say that this particular nut isn’t a Christian.
““Jake -- incarnated in his Na'vi avatarâ€â€
Remarkable! Jake is a god who has been “incarnated†as an Avatar. In the movie that I saw, Jake was scientifically connected to a soulless creature created scientifically out of Na’vi DNA and DNA of specific humans. I wonder where and how the Corporation got that Na’vi DNA?
Ok, that’s enough malarkey. Can’t you see what is going on here?
I’ll wait for Cameron to come out and say that Avatar is based on Hinduism. Until then, anyone who sees such a conspiracy is as nutty as the person above who wanted to commit suicide and be reincarnated on Pandora.
Additional note:
I just looked up on Google “James Cameron and the Hindu religionâ€. There are posts that came out before the movie came out, that refer to the Hindus who are upset that Cameron is stepping on their religion. Now I understand where these “Christian†conspirators are getting their material.
I don’t know if this is legal, and I don’t have a clue as to the use of links, but I have to point out this piece:
MOVIE "AVATAR" AND SPIRITUALITY - alt.religion.hindu | Google Groups
as employed in the film clearly has nothing to do with religion and .... Hindus ask for a disclaimer with James Cameron's 'Avatar'. By ANI November 9, 2009 ...
groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.hindu/.../7a16b54e8efdfc17 -
Avatar's reversal of fortune
By Maxim Osipov
The Sydney Morning Herald
Monday, January 4, 2010
Avatar box office tops $1bn
James Cameron's 'Avatar' shoots past one billion dollars worldwide,
only the fifth movie to hit that mark.
With the dazzling 3D-vortex of colours, actions and emotions, James
Cameron's Avatar seems to have given everyone something to rave
about.
But let's get it straight -- Avatar is a downright misnomer for this
latest new blockbuster.
No, not because, sadly for Hare Krishna moviegoers, the film's got
nothing to do with Hinduism except its Sanskrit name. And some Hindu
activists who habitually frisk all new releases for concealed
sacrileges also needn't worry -- there are none in Avatar, or at
least not more than in those little digital icons they hide
themselves behind on their own e-chats.
[Caption] The path taken by Sam Worthington's character in James
Cameron's Avatar reverses the meaning of the Sanskrit word.
It's because the movie reverses the very concept that the term
"avatar" is based on.
Leave aside the fact that Hindu theology reserves the use of
"avatar", which in Sanskrit literally means "descent", almost
exclusively for appearances of Vishnu on Earth. The key point here is
that an avatar always descends from a higher realm into the lower,
restores prosperity, wisdom, and happiness -- and moves on unchanged
after the mission is accomplished.
However, the "avatar" Jake Sully -- and we the viewers along with him
-- shortly after his descent into the world of Na'vis sees the
"higher" realm of earthlings rapidly grow pallid and repulsive in
comparison to the pristine world of supposed savages. The "civilized
humans" turn out as primitive, jaded and increasingly greedy,
cynical, and brutal -- traits only amplified by their machinery --
while the "monkey aliens" emerge as noble, kind, wise, sensitive, and
humane.
We, along with the "Avatar" hero, are now faced with an
uncomfortable yet irresistible choice between the two races and the
two worldviews. And invariably, along with him we cannot help but
lean toward the far more civilized insides within the long-tailed,
blue-skinned, and technologically infantile exterior.
So much for a descending "avatar". Jake soon admits to himself in his
videolog: "I realized that I had it backwards, I wasn't sure what was
the dream and what was real." Having regained through the avatar body
not just his legs, but his dignity, his freedom, and his brethren
whose love and trust he struggles to earn, the rescuer becomes the
rescued, the benefactor becomes the benefited. The "avatar" becomes
. . well . . . a refugee among the aborigines so content inwardly
that they wouldn't trade their tree for whatever the savvy "sky
people" gods have to offer! Contrary to The Matrix's Neo, Jake plugs
into a supposedly illusory world to discover it to be much more
tangible, wholesome and true than his own -- and wants to stay in.
This makes us ask the question: Why? And what on Earth (or on
Pandora) do "culture", "civilization", and "human" stand for?
Not succumbing to the stock trifle of sci-fi genre, James Cameron
makes this question the fourth dimension of his movie -- and answers
it most convincingly: It's the qualities of kindness, gratitude,
regard for the elderly, self-sacrifice, respect for all life and
ultimately humble dependence on a higher intelligence behind nature
that qualify one as cultured, civilized, and human.
The other alternative is summed up by Jake Sully: "This is how it's
done. When people are sitting on something that you want, you make
them your enemy so that you can drive them out." And "They have
already killed their mother". Here you have it, the savage -- give or
take his spaceship, touch-screen and a rifle.
And getting back to the Hindu theology, Bhagavad-gita (16.1-4) echoes
this distinction: "Fearlessness; cultivation of wisdom; charity;
self-control; austerity; simplicity; refrain from unnecessary
violence; truthfulness; freedom from hatred; renunciation;
tranquility; aversion to fault-finding; compassion for all living
entities; freedom from covetousness; gentleness; modesty; steady
determination; vigour; forgiveness; fortitude; cleanliness; and
freedom from envy and from the passion for honour -- these are
qualities befitting real civilized humans.
"Pride, arrogance, conceit, anger, harshness and ignorance are
qualities of barbarians."
In order to descend -- that is, to be an avatar -- one first ought to
be above. Unfortunately for our civilization, epitomized by the human
conquistadors on Pandora, from the place where we are happily getting
ourselves into, we can only climb.
Maxim Osipov is a student of Sanskrit and Indian philosophy and a
follower of the Hare Krishna movement since 1991. Mukunda Goswami
contributed to this article.
JamesG
Hello friends!!
Just to give you some background - I was a movie buff until a few months ago. I used to watch every new movie that came out and though being born into a Christian family, it didn't really bother me - actually, at that time, I didn't even know it was supposed to bother me. Not like I was going to pick up guns and fire away or bow and worship trees, right? I felt worshipping Christ didn't have anything to do with entertainment as long as we were clear over where our loyalties lay. I thought I was being a good Christian alright and felt movies was just the entertainment side of life - I was not addicted to them and I took care of my work first before entertaining myself. I never ridiculed the people who abstained from watching movies - i just thought, each to his own measure of faith.
Then, about late last year, I did truly experience God and since then God has been moulding me constantly. One of the changes pertains to my watching movies. Even after experiencing God, I did continue to watch movies for a few days - but I constrained myself to avoiding any lewd, sensual movies. Well, I would walk with God most of the time, then occasionally I'd tell myself that I deserved some entertainment and I'd watch some good clean movies, say pursuit of happyness and the likes. One day, God brought to my memory an incident that had occurred when I was a teenager. I had never thought about it all these years, so I was surprised that I should have remembered it so suddenly.
Back then too, I loved watching movies and at the same time, I also wanted to stay legalistically correct in God's sight. One day, a Christian preacher came home and saw my movie collection with a saddened look. He didn't say anything but I couldn't help asking if it were okay to watch movies and if not, where in the Bible it says so. The preacher thought for a moment, then this is the exact answer he gave me - "It is okay for you to watch any movie.....as long as Christ is invited to come along with you."
I kinda felt like that young rich ruler - I wanted to do what was right, I thought movies weren't wrong, but the preacher's answer just ruled out most of the movies I'd watch, I could just imagine Christ grimace and turn His head at almost every scene and dialogue, I mulled it over sadly for a time after which I just hardened my heart and carried on whatever I was doing. I didn't change one bit - I don't even know what I possibly could have thought then.
Anyway, this incident was brought up by God for me to contemplate again and decide what I wanted to choose - i was being given a second chance. I didn't want to mess it up again but I also had a small struggle within myself. I didn't exactly understand why God was asking me this because I thought I was watching only good, clean movies. I had just finished watching 'the pursuit of happyness' then and I went to the Lord in prayer and asked Him if He were okay with it. God again flashed a particular scene from the movie that I particularly endorsed and believed in - the scene where Will Smith looks at his son and says - "Don't ever let somebody tell you... You can't do something." I then could see how it displeased Christ inordinately to put your faith in yourself instead of Christ and Christ alone. I realized that even the movies that weren't lascivious were neatly packaged with messages that catered to human self-pride or lusts of the eye. Of course, I could have justified it wrongly by thinking I could simply overlook the negative scenes while taking in the positives - but the catch was I had to invite Christ with me and I didn't want Him to be displeased even once. I couldn't think of a moment without Christ with me because that actually meant that for those 2-3 hours, I had willfully chosen to replace the Holy Infinite God with a man-made worldly movie. That led to an instant abstention from movies purely by the grace of God. I was given grace so I could share it with you on this forum, even if it benefits just one.
With regards to how we are to behave in this world - the New Testament throughout refers to Christians as pilgrims and exiles, awaiting the Kingdom of God and waiting for deliverance from this present evil world and its values/wisdom/motivations. How then can we mingle in it as if we were part of it - how then can we take part in this world system that put our Christ to death. I speak in anguish and care and not in any sense of self-righteousness. For what can mere flesh boast about save in the power,grace and love of our Lord Jesus Christ. These verses too exhort us to stay away from the world and if we are weak to do so, we must turn to the Lord in prayer - and then seek comfort and encouragement in fellow-believers like on this forum.
1Jn 2:15 Do not love the world, nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him,
1Jn 2:16 because all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17 And the world passes away, and the lust of it, but he who does the will of God abides forever.
Rom 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, in order to prove by you what is that good and pleasing and perfect will of God.
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience;
Also compare the above quoted 1John 2:16 with Genesis 3:6
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasing to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make wise, she took of its fruit, and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.
Genesis 3:6 has Eve having the same lusts that John warns us Christians against - and if one act of succumbing to her lusts could mean spiritual separation from God - if God hates sin to such a degree - and even then, if He is willing to forgive us on the merits of Jesus Christ only because He loves us, then can we go on offending His majesty and take for granted His love? Test and examine yourselves - for each will be held accountable for his/her own deeds on the day of the Lord. God is indeed good to forgive and sanctify if we seek Him in repentance. God is also pleased to strengthen our faith if we seek Him in thanksgiving for the grace He has provided with thus far.
Forsaking the world does not amount to boycotting our work or deriding other unbelievers. We must work harder than others - not for any personal gain or benefit - but so that others may notice and come to see the precious light in our Lord. We should be as lamps - giving out the light of Christ to others. We must walk in the Lord all the time - for in Him alone we find the strength to overcome the world.
All praise and glory be to God. In Jesus' name, Amen.
Just to give you some background - I was a movie buff until a few months ago. I used to watch every new movie that came out and though being born into a Christian family, it didn't really bother me - actually, at that time, I didn't even know it was supposed to bother me. Not like I was going to pick up guns and fire away or bow and worship trees, right? I felt worshipping Christ didn't have anything to do with entertainment as long as we were clear over where our loyalties lay. I thought I was being a good Christian alright and felt movies was just the entertainment side of life - I was not addicted to them and I took care of my work first before entertaining myself. I never ridiculed the people who abstained from watching movies - i just thought, each to his own measure of faith.
Then, about late last year, I did truly experience God and since then God has been moulding me constantly. One of the changes pertains to my watching movies. Even after experiencing God, I did continue to watch movies for a few days - but I constrained myself to avoiding any lewd, sensual movies. Well, I would walk with God most of the time, then occasionally I'd tell myself that I deserved some entertainment and I'd watch some good clean movies, say pursuit of happyness and the likes. One day, God brought to my memory an incident that had occurred when I was a teenager. I had never thought about it all these years, so I was surprised that I should have remembered it so suddenly.
Back then too, I loved watching movies and at the same time, I also wanted to stay legalistically correct in God's sight. One day, a Christian preacher came home and saw my movie collection with a saddened look. He didn't say anything but I couldn't help asking if it were okay to watch movies and if not, where in the Bible it says so. The preacher thought for a moment, then this is the exact answer he gave me - "It is okay for you to watch any movie.....as long as Christ is invited to come along with you."
I kinda felt like that young rich ruler - I wanted to do what was right, I thought movies weren't wrong, but the preacher's answer just ruled out most of the movies I'd watch, I could just imagine Christ grimace and turn His head at almost every scene and dialogue, I mulled it over sadly for a time after which I just hardened my heart and carried on whatever I was doing. I didn't change one bit - I don't even know what I possibly could have thought then.
Anyway, this incident was brought up by God for me to contemplate again and decide what I wanted to choose - i was being given a second chance. I didn't want to mess it up again but I also had a small struggle within myself. I didn't exactly understand why God was asking me this because I thought I was watching only good, clean movies. I had just finished watching 'the pursuit of happyness' then and I went to the Lord in prayer and asked Him if He were okay with it. God again flashed a particular scene from the movie that I particularly endorsed and believed in - the scene where Will Smith looks at his son and says - "Don't ever let somebody tell you... You can't do something." I then could see how it displeased Christ inordinately to put your faith in yourself instead of Christ and Christ alone. I realized that even the movies that weren't lascivious were neatly packaged with messages that catered to human self-pride or lusts of the eye. Of course, I could have justified it wrongly by thinking I could simply overlook the negative scenes while taking in the positives - but the catch was I had to invite Christ with me and I didn't want Him to be displeased even once. I couldn't think of a moment without Christ with me because that actually meant that for those 2-3 hours, I had willfully chosen to replace the Holy Infinite God with a man-made worldly movie. That led to an instant abstention from movies purely by the grace of God. I was given grace so I could share it with you on this forum, even if it benefits just one.
With regards to how we are to behave in this world - the New Testament throughout refers to Christians as pilgrims and exiles, awaiting the Kingdom of God and waiting for deliverance from this present evil world and its values/wisdom/motivations. How then can we mingle in it as if we were part of it - how then can we take part in this world system that put our Christ to death. I speak in anguish and care and not in any sense of self-righteousness. For what can mere flesh boast about save in the power,grace and love of our Lord Jesus Christ. These verses too exhort us to stay away from the world and if we are weak to do so, we must turn to the Lord in prayer - and then seek comfort and encouragement in fellow-believers like on this forum.
1Jn 2:15 Do not love the world, nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him,
1Jn 2:16 because all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17 And the world passes away, and the lust of it, but he who does the will of God abides forever.
Rom 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, in order to prove by you what is that good and pleasing and perfect will of God.
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience;
Also compare the above quoted 1John 2:16 with Genesis 3:6
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasing to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make wise, she took of its fruit, and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.
Genesis 3:6 has Eve having the same lusts that John warns us Christians against - and if one act of succumbing to her lusts could mean spiritual separation from God - if God hates sin to such a degree - and even then, if He is willing to forgive us on the merits of Jesus Christ only because He loves us, then can we go on offending His majesty and take for granted His love? Test and examine yourselves - for each will be held accountable for his/her own deeds on the day of the Lord. God is indeed good to forgive and sanctify if we seek Him in repentance. God is also pleased to strengthen our faith if we seek Him in thanksgiving for the grace He has provided with thus far.
Forsaking the world does not amount to boycotting our work or deriding other unbelievers. We must work harder than others - not for any personal gain or benefit - but so that others may notice and come to see the precious light in our Lord. We should be as lamps - giving out the light of Christ to others. We must walk in the Lord all the time - for in Him alone we find the strength to overcome the world.
All praise and glory be to God. In Jesus' name, Amen.
.
ivdavid
““I was a movie buff until a few months ago. I used to watch every new movie that came out and though being born into a Christian family, it didn't really bother me - actually, at that time, I didn't even know it was supposed to bother me. Not like I was going to pick up guns and fire away or bow and worship trees, right? I felt worshipping Christ didn't have anything to do with entertainment as long as we were clear over where our loyalties lay. I thought I was being a good Christian alright and felt movies was just the entertainment side of life - I was not addicted to them and I took care of my work first before entertaining myself. I never ridiculed the people who abstained from watching movies - i just thought, each to his own measure of faith.
Then, about late last year, I did truly experience God and since then God has been moulding me constantly. One of the changes pertains to my watching movies.â€â€
Personally, I can say nothing against your experience because I too went through such a period of time. It is a necessary step that must be taken to cut us off from one way of life so that we can begin to live a different way of life that appreciates the life that is around us in a different way.
This is the stage of purgation that follows the conversion experience. It is a time of great focus on God and Christ and the Bible and the putting away of habits and desires that have become the life apart from God. It is a necessary stage for most of us who are truly in Christ. But some continue in the purgation stage indefinitely and take the stage to an extreme becoming fanatics and jihadist even against their own brothers and sisters. Purgation is a necessary step for a baby in Christ. But when the person continues to cry when they are a teenager it is known by everyone, except the continuing baby, that something is desperately wrong. I praise God and our Lord Jesus Christ that I was helped to continue to grow. I hope with the following words that I can pass on some of that help.
We all are given a personal verse when we are converted. For me it was and continues to be Proverbs 3:5-6.
Five Bible portions in particular were given me by a dear brother that our Lord used to help me through the time of purgation toward maturity.
The first was “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.†(1John 2:15-17). I use the KJV. Read these and the following verses in whatever version you prefer. They should be basically the same.
These are the same verses you mentioned. But he emphasized the words in a different way. He emphasized the words love, lust, pride, and doeth. The verbs in these verses show the key to understanding the meaning of John. He does not say that the flesh is bad, but that the lust of the flesh is bad. And the eyes are not bad, but the lust of the eyes is bad. The life is not bad, but the pride of life is bad. It is the lust and the pride that will separate you from the Father. Not in the sense of full separation, but in the sense of the love of the Father not being in you. In other words, the Father does not leave you, you leave the Father. And one can only love and serve one master at a time. If one loves the world and serves the world, then one cannot also love the Father and do his will. This is important for the newly converted to learn and to understand.
Paul in Galatians 5:14-26 showed a contrast between those who we are walking according to the Spirit and those who walk according to the self or the flesh? Two different walks result in fruit in one and works in the other. The product is different. Before being converted to the life in Jesus Christ, the only life we have is the life in the flesh. And this life tends to conform to the life of this world in a self-centered way. This is a crucial consideration when we are in the stage of purgation.
The second was, “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.†(Matthew 23:25-26).
Jesus shows us that the true Christian life is inward. And while many outward things may fall away in the process, we need to be careful not to try to force anything on others as the Pharisees did. The Pharisees followed the law to such an extent that they tried to kill anyone who did not follow it in the way that they understood it. Indeed, in their attempt to follow the law they created a Tradition of men. Their focus was right (Romans 10:1-3). But in their zeal they actually left their original focus for something of their own creation. It is the difference between following reality and becoming prideful. It is a danger that anyone in the purgation stage may begin to follow the Bible as if it is a Law, but follow it according to our own understanding. Thus we begin to create our own Tradition and begin to think that everyone should follow our own Tradition. Jesus is the way and the truth and the life (John 14:6). The whole purpose of the Bible is to know Jesus as our way, as our reality, and as our life. And out of that will come a living of that life that is an expression of the Body of Christ.
The third was “For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.†(Mt 11:18-19).
Many say that this refers to persecution no matter what one does. But it must be noted how the Son of man came eating and drinking. In other words he lived like every common man. John the Baptist was the one who lived what was considered a form of extreme religious life. The Pharisees thought he had a devil. And the Pharisees judged Jesus a glutton and a wino (the meaning of the Greek word translated winebibber). Even when he preached for his last three years, he pretty much lived as a normal person, with additions such as longer times of prayer because he knew the purpose of those last three years. He even attended the synagogue “as was his custom†(Luke 4:16).
The fourth was, “For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. And this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.†(1Corinthians 9:19-23).
Here is the example of Paul long after his time of purgation. If you consider Paul to be a follower, an imitator, of Christ, then it must also be noted that the example shows that Jesus will be with you during weakness and strength. He will be with you throughout your whole transformation process. The purgation stage is only the beginning. Paul never just “saved†someone and then left them on their own. He continued in his concern toward them until he himself finally died. Jesus will always be there and your Salvation is in him, even though mortal men such as ourselves will leave and others will replace them in your life.
The fifth was, “Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.†(Romans 14:1-10).
Paul pointed out that it is alright to deprive oneself if one feels that it is a leading from our Lord. But it is not right to deprive others. Why? Because we are not all at the same stage of growth, nor are we of the same strength. As we grow we mature. As we lean more on our Lord our strength becomes greater.
And so I encourage you to follow the Lord according to how he is leading you at this moment. Do not be bothered by what others may think. Only be careful to not go overboard and harm yourself in the process. And yet do not be selective in how you follow this kind of leading. Don’t hedge your bets, as it were. Do not restrict yourself to movies. In this stage, everything in our life becomes suspect and the leading of our Lord is crucial. If you are in the stage of purgation, then do not hold on to anything that the Lord leads you to let go of. The Old Testament is full of examples of how Israel would not let go of everything as instructed by God, and it later came back to haunt them. And to us who are in Christ, what the Old Testament reveals is as important as what the New Testament reveals. Don’t even keep what you might think is a good book by a godly person, unless the Lord specifically tells you to do so. During this time the Word of God will be sufficient for you. You only need to listen to the sermons in the Church that Jesus has guided you to. This initial time that you spend with God and with the writings that he gave through His Spirit is a crucial time for you. God reveals the reality that is described in the Bible through the same way that He gave us those writings, through the Spirit. Eventually, you will regain what you have lost, but in a different and greater way. Consider the book of Job, and especially note chapters 40-42. Job is not a book of suffering as is generally supposed. It is a book of purgation of which suffering is naturally a part. Following Job is the Psalms the book of life, and following the Psalms is Proverbs, the book of Wisdom. When you get to Ecclesiastes you will learn of the true nature of the world, that it is all vanity apart from God.
But I further encourage you to be careful and to not reveal too much about how the Lord is leading you in your purgation. It will lead you to pride, as if you are accomplishing something that others are not. Reveal it only to a very select few whom our Lord reveals to you as being much farther along in the Christian life than yourself. There are further steps that you will eventually take. If all you know is purgation, you could mislead a new believer or a weaker one into thinking that the sum total of the Christian life is purgation, when in actuality it is merely a starting point of being transformed by the renewing of your mind (Romans 12:1-2) through the Spirit of God (2Corinthians 3:17-18).
What I have written about Avatar is not for you at this time. At this point you are not able to fully distinguish between what is real and what is fiction. It all seems too real to you. This is what has bothered you. And Jesus knows where you are and gives you the inner sense that for you, seeing any kind of movie that presents the world or worldly ideas in such clear graphic terms is not good for you at this time. Nor is what I have written for anyone else who is presently going through the same stage that you are going through. In times to come you will be able to appreciate what I have written. What I have written concerning Avatar is for those who have become or are on there way to becoming Jihadist in their thinking. Your post reveals that your situation is entirely different. Your post reveals a good gospel tract and even in your stage leading others to our Lord Jesus Christ is within your means. And I encourage everyone to read your post carefully and to turn to our Lord Jesus Christ if such has not already.
To know and to see Jesus is to know and to see God (John 14:9). And the purpose of God is in Jesus Christ our Lord (Ephesians). Therefore, I encourage you to continue to “grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory boh now and for ever. Amen.†(2Peter 3:18)
JamesG
ivdavid
““I was a movie buff until a few months ago. I used to watch every new movie that came out and though being born into a Christian family, it didn't really bother me - actually, at that time, I didn't even know it was supposed to bother me. Not like I was going to pick up guns and fire away or bow and worship trees, right? I felt worshipping Christ didn't have anything to do with entertainment as long as we were clear over where our loyalties lay. I thought I was being a good Christian alright and felt movies was just the entertainment side of life - I was not addicted to them and I took care of my work first before entertaining myself. I never ridiculed the people who abstained from watching movies - i just thought, each to his own measure of faith.
Then, about late last year, I did truly experience God and since then God has been moulding me constantly. One of the changes pertains to my watching movies.â€â€
Personally, I can say nothing against your experience because I too went through such a period of time. It is a necessary step that must be taken to cut us off from one way of life so that we can begin to live a different way of life that appreciates the life that is around us in a different way.
This is the stage of purgation that follows the conversion experience. It is a time of great focus on God and Christ and the Bible and the putting away of habits and desires that have become the life apart from God. It is a necessary stage for most of us who are truly in Christ. But some continue in the purgation stage indefinitely and take the stage to an extreme becoming fanatics and jihadist even against their own brothers and sisters. Purgation is a necessary step for a baby in Christ. But when the person continues to cry when they are a teenager it is known by everyone, except the continuing baby, that something is desperately wrong. I praise God and our Lord Jesus Christ that I was helped to continue to grow. I hope with the following words that I can pass on some of that help.
We all are given a personal verse when we are converted. For me it was and continues to be Proverbs 3:5-6.
Five Bible portions in particular were given me by a dear brother that our Lord used to help me through the time of purgation toward maturity.
The first was “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.†(1John 2:15-17). I use the KJV. Read these and the following verses in whatever version you prefer. They should be basically the same.
These are the same verses you mentioned. But he emphasized the words in a different way. He emphasized the words love, lust, pride, and doeth. The verbs in these verses show the key to understanding the meaning of John. He does not say that the flesh is bad, but that the lust of the flesh is bad. And the eyes are not bad, but the lust of the eyes is bad. The life is not bad, but the pride of life is bad. It is the lust and the pride that will separate you from the Father. Not in the sense of full separation, but in the sense of the love of the Father not being in you. In other words, the Father does not leave you, you leave the Father. And one can only love and serve one master at a time. If one loves the world and serves the world, then one cannot also love the Father and do his will. This is important for the newly converted to learn and to understand.
Paul in Galatians 5:14-26 showed a contrast between those who we are walking according to the Spirit and those who walk according to the self or the flesh? Two different walks result in fruit in one and works in the other. The product is different. Before being converted to the life in Jesus Christ, the only life we have is the life in the flesh. And this life tends to conform to the life of this world in a self-centered way. This is a crucial consideration when we are in the stage of purgation.
The second was, “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.†(Matthew 23:25-26).
Jesus shows us that the true Christian life is inward. And while many outward things may fall away in the process, we need to be careful not to try to force anything on others as the Pharisees did. The Pharisees followed the law to such an extent that they tried to kill anyone who did not follow it in the way that they understood it. Indeed, in their attempt to follow the law they created a Tradition of men. Their focus was right (Romans 10:1-3). But in their zeal they actually left their original focus for something of their own creation. It is the difference between following reality and becoming prideful. It is a danger that anyone in the purgation stage may begin to follow the Bible as if it is a Law, but follow it according to our own understanding. Thus we begin to create our own Tradition and begin to think that everyone should follow our own Tradition. Jesus is the way and the truth and the life (John 14:6). The whole purpose of the Bible is to know Jesus as our way, as our reality, and as our life. And out of that will come a living of that life that is an expression of the Body of Christ.
The third was “For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.†(Mt 11:18-19).
Many say that this refers to persecution no matter what one does. But it must be noted how the Son of man came eating and drinking. In other words he lived like every common man. John the Baptist was the one who lived what was considered a form of extreme religious life. The Pharisees thought he had a devil. And the Pharisees judged Jesus a glutton and a wino (the meaning of the Greek word translated winebibber). Even when he preached for his last three years, he pretty much lived as a normal person, with additions such as longer times of prayer because he knew the purpose of those last three years. He even attended the synagogue “as was his custom†(Luke 4:16).
The fourth was, “For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. And this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.†(1Corinthians 9:19-23).
Here is the example of Paul long after his time of purgation. If you consider Paul to be a follower, an imitator, of Christ, then it must also be noted that the example shows that Jesus will be with you during weakness and strength. He will be with you throughout your whole transformation process. The purgation stage is only the beginning. Paul never just “saved†someone and then left them on their own. He continued in his concern toward them until he himself finally died. Jesus will always be there and your Salvation is in him, even though mortal men such as ourselves will leave and others will replace them in your life.
The fifth was, “Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.†(Romans 14:1-10).
Paul pointed out that it is alright to deprive oneself if one feels that it is a leading from our Lord. But it is not right to deprive others. Why? Because we are not all at the same stage of growth, nor are we of the same strength. As we grow we mature. As we lean more on our Lord our strength becomes greater.
And so I encourage you to follow the Lord according to how he is leading you at this moment. Do not be bothered by what others may think. Only be careful to not go overboard and harm yourself in the process. And yet do not be selective in how you follow this kind of leading. Don’t hedge your bets, as it were. Do not restrict yourself to movies. In this stage, everything in our life becomes suspect and the leading of our Lord is crucial. If you are in the stage of purgation, then do not hold on to anything that the Lord leads you to let go of. The Old Testament is full of examples of how Israel would not let go of everything as instructed by God, and it later came back to haunt them. And to us who are in Christ, what the Old Testament reveals is as important as what the New Testament reveals. Don’t even keep what you might think is a good book by a godly person, unless the Lord specifically tells you to do so. During this time the Word of God will be sufficient for you. You only need to listen to the sermons in the Church that Jesus has guided you to. This initial time that you spend with God and with the writings that he gave through His Spirit is a crucial time for you. God reveals the reality that is described in the Bible through the same way that He gave us those writings, through the Spirit. Eventually, you will regain what you have lost, but in a different and greater way. Consider the book of Job, and especially note chapters 40-42. Job is not a book of suffering as is generally supposed. It is a book of purgation of which suffering is naturally a part. Following Job is the Psalms the book of life, and following the Psalms is Proverbs, the book of Wisdom. When you get to Ecclesiastes you will learn of the true nature of the world, that it is all vanity apart from God.
But I further encourage you to be careful and to not reveal too much about how the Lord is leading you in your purgation. It will lead you to pride, as if you are accomplishing something that others are not. Reveal it only to a very select few whom our Lord reveals to you as being much farther along in the Christian life than yourself. There are further steps that you will eventually take. If all you know is purgation, you could mislead a new believer or a weaker one into thinking that the sum total of the Christian life is purgation, when in actuality it is merely a starting point of being transformed by the renewing of your mind (Romans 12:1-2) through the Spirit of God (2Corinthians 3:17-18).
What I have written about Avatar is not for you at this time. At this point you are not able to fully distinguish between what is real and what is fiction. It all seems too real to you. This is what has bothered you. And Jesus knows where you are and gives you the inner sense that for you, seeing any kind of movie that presents the world or worldly ideas in such clear graphic terms is not good for you at this time. Nor is what I have written for anyone else who is presently going through the same stage that you are going through. In times to come you will be able to appreciate what I have written. What I have written concerning Avatar is for those who have become or are on there way to becoming Jihadist in their thinking. Your post reveals that your situation is entirely different. Your post reveals a good gospel tract and even in your stage leading others to our Lord Jesus Christ is within your means. And I encourage everyone to read your post carefully and to turn to our Lord Jesus Christ if such has not already.
To know and to see Jesus is to know and to see God (John 14:9). And the purpose of God is in Jesus Christ our Lord (Ephesians). Therefore, I encourage you to continue to “grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory boh now and for ever. Amen.†(2Peter 3:18)
JamesG
watchman F
Member
JamesG, Why do you fell it is necessary to tell people it is ok to do and watch things there own conscience/ (the Holy Spirit) is telling them they shouldn't?
watchman F
Member
First of all I simply expressed how I felt while watching the movie, I never told anyone they should or should not do or not do anything. However for you to tell people to ignore their own conscience and do what they know to be wrong, puts you in a very dangerous place.JamesG said:
Ed the Ned
Member
I only have a short time to be online, so I'll make my comment short and return to it later.
Firstly, |I believe in the Bible, beginning to end. No myths in there.
Secondly, as a christian I believe we need to make others aware of things if we feel they are wrong. What others do with the information that is their perogitive. I am not forcing my opinion on anyone. (Unlike others who seem to oppose the beliefs on this forum)
Thirdly, What you put in is what you get out. If you are going to watch a movie and allow everything to soak in to your mind, you will start acting out in that manner. So if Avatar presents certain beliefs, I believe some people will start moving towards those beliefs. Until we wake up to this I believe the world is going to move in the wrong direction.
Lastly, when I seek advice or information regarding something, I look for a source that has some insight into what they are talking about. I don't just take the first information that comes up. The link I posted earlier is written by a person that has been involved in the New Age movement and has first hand experience in how we are being decieved. So my opinion is to take note of these things.
Firstly, |I believe in the Bible, beginning to end. No myths in there.
Secondly, as a christian I believe we need to make others aware of things if we feel they are wrong. What others do with the information that is their perogitive. I am not forcing my opinion on anyone. (Unlike others who seem to oppose the beliefs on this forum)
Thirdly, What you put in is what you get out. If you are going to watch a movie and allow everything to soak in to your mind, you will start acting out in that manner. So if Avatar presents certain beliefs, I believe some people will start moving towards those beliefs. Until we wake up to this I believe the world is going to move in the wrong direction.
Lastly, when I seek advice or information regarding something, I look for a source that has some insight into what they are talking about. I don't just take the first information that comes up. The link I posted earlier is written by a person that has been involved in the New Age movement and has first hand experience in how we are being decieved. So my opinion is to take note of these things.
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watchman F
To you the conscience and the Holy Spirit is the same thing. That in itself is not true. But I will in this case submit to your terminology because this is not the thread in which to discuss this matter.
If you look back, I only told one person to go watch the movie before trying to critique it, especially since that person had in previous posts gave accolades to similar kinds of movies. I hate duplicity. A second person I encouraged to watch the movie again, but recanted because that person was determined to be bothered by the movie. I did not want to go against that person’s belief. Not his conscience, his belief. This last person that I talked to I encouraged him to not watch the movie or any movie unless the Lord expressly gives him the freedom to do so because of the stage of Christian life that he is in. And if you will look back, you will see that I treated you no differently and respected your feelings. But what you now charge me with is gross negligence on you part.
Did you even bother to read my last post where I quoted an article by a Hindu who said that the use of the word Avatar in the movie is different from the use of the term in Hinduism? Even within the context of this movie alone which is a Science Fiction, this is true in the sense of a scientific use against the use of a religious concept.
I don’t care if anyone watches the movie or not. Cameron has made his money and I am getting none of it. I personally think that Avatar is a great movie that has more Christian values in it than I have seen in a movie that has a secular source in a long time. The only thing that I am doing is trying to clear up some misconceptions in relation to this movie. And there are some misconceptions that are rather obvious, at least to me.
Do you honestly think that the Holy Spirit would use a lie to give a person a sense that they should not be watching a movie? And those who claim that their conscience is bothering them because they think that a group of aliens are worshipping a tree or that the aliens are imitations of Hinduism or other such nonsense, these are being bothered by lies. To such I offer the suggestion that perhaps their conscience is being bothered by the Father of lies. Guess who I think is in a very dangerous place?
If seeing this movie is against your conscience, then don’t see it or don’t see it again. But don’t push your conscience on the conscience of others. When you do, that makes you a Jihadist. Your way is right and you will force your way on others. I can only hope that being a Jihadist is not your intention. If all you want is to find like-minded people, then fine. I am sorry to have bothered you. It is not my intention to hinder such a quest. But I will not be stopped from speaking the truth regarding false opinions regarding Avatar as I see them.
The only thing that I am doing is clearing up false ideas about this particular movie. I may be wrong about what I see. I will not know that for certain until I view the DVD that is supposed to come out in April. Cameron has said nothing in relation to the controversy. And if anyone knows for sure, it is Cameron. I can only go by what I saw when I watched the movie and what others are saying about the movie. And I am relying on my memory a lot here. And I believe that my memory is fairly accurate because of the graphic nature of this movie.
If you continue on your present course, I will fight you. I don’t like the Jihadist kind of attitude in Christians or Muslims or any other religion or philosophy. And I am happy to say that the majority of those who hold to these philosophies and religions agree with me. You can take your Crusades elsewhere. As for myself, I will continue to fight for the freedom of the consciences of others and of myself, and even of yours. Not freedom from the Holy Spirit, but freedom from the Father of lies.
JamesG
watchman F
To you the conscience and the Holy Spirit is the same thing. That in itself is not true. But I will in this case submit to your terminology because this is not the thread in which to discuss this matter.
If you look back, I only told one person to go watch the movie before trying to critique it, especially since that person had in previous posts gave accolades to similar kinds of movies. I hate duplicity. A second person I encouraged to watch the movie again, but recanted because that person was determined to be bothered by the movie. I did not want to go against that person’s belief. Not his conscience, his belief. This last person that I talked to I encouraged him to not watch the movie or any movie unless the Lord expressly gives him the freedom to do so because of the stage of Christian life that he is in. And if you will look back, you will see that I treated you no differently and respected your feelings. But what you now charge me with is gross negligence on you part.
Did you even bother to read my last post where I quoted an article by a Hindu who said that the use of the word Avatar in the movie is different from the use of the term in Hinduism? Even within the context of this movie alone which is a Science Fiction, this is true in the sense of a scientific use against the use of a religious concept.
I don’t care if anyone watches the movie or not. Cameron has made his money and I am getting none of it. I personally think that Avatar is a great movie that has more Christian values in it than I have seen in a movie that has a secular source in a long time. The only thing that I am doing is trying to clear up some misconceptions in relation to this movie. And there are some misconceptions that are rather obvious, at least to me.
Do you honestly think that the Holy Spirit would use a lie to give a person a sense that they should not be watching a movie? And those who claim that their conscience is bothering them because they think that a group of aliens are worshipping a tree or that the aliens are imitations of Hinduism or other such nonsense, these are being bothered by lies. To such I offer the suggestion that perhaps their conscience is being bothered by the Father of lies. Guess who I think is in a very dangerous place?
If seeing this movie is against your conscience, then don’t see it or don’t see it again. But don’t push your conscience on the conscience of others. When you do, that makes you a Jihadist. Your way is right and you will force your way on others. I can only hope that being a Jihadist is not your intention. If all you want is to find like-minded people, then fine. I am sorry to have bothered you. It is not my intention to hinder such a quest. But I will not be stopped from speaking the truth regarding false opinions regarding Avatar as I see them.
The only thing that I am doing is clearing up false ideas about this particular movie. I may be wrong about what I see. I will not know that for certain until I view the DVD that is supposed to come out in April. Cameron has said nothing in relation to the controversy. And if anyone knows for sure, it is Cameron. I can only go by what I saw when I watched the movie and what others are saying about the movie. And I am relying on my memory a lot here. And I believe that my memory is fairly accurate because of the graphic nature of this movie.
If you continue on your present course, I will fight you. I don’t like the Jihadist kind of attitude in Christians or Muslims or any other religion or philosophy. And I am happy to say that the majority of those who hold to these philosophies and religions agree with me. You can take your Crusades elsewhere. As for myself, I will continue to fight for the freedom of the consciences of others and of myself, and even of yours. Not freedom from the Holy Spirit, but freedom from the Father of lies.
JamesG
.watchman F
Member
I am not sure what the rest of your post actually says. To be honest I probably will not take the time to read it, seeing what you have written previously on this thread is totally unbiblical and many times unchristian. However you start your post with a false assumption. A humans personal conscience is not the same as the Holy Spirit, nor to I believe that they are the same. However the Holy Spirit does indeed use the conscience of believers to convict them of their wrongs.JamesG said:
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watchman F
Didn’t I already mention that any discussion about the conscience and the Holy Spirit is not appropriate on this thread? No matter. And your denial that I am a Christian simply because I disagree with you is a bit gauche, don’t you think? But that too is of no matter.
Aren’t you more concerned about the meaning of this?
TO ALL:
Personal attacks need to stop now. We don't want any warnings given here...but if it needs to happen, it will.
Is this note actually from the monitors or a disgruntled poster? If it is from the monitors, don’t they realize that generalizations in the form of a quote of rules mean nothing? Specifics are necessary in order to understand and to comply or challenge their concerns.
JamesG
watchman F
Didn’t I already mention that any discussion about the conscience and the Holy Spirit is not appropriate on this thread? No matter. And your denial that I am a Christian simply because I disagree with you is a bit gauche, don’t you think? But that too is of no matter.
Aren’t you more concerned about the meaning of this?
TO ALL:
Personal attacks need to stop now. We don't want any warnings given here...but if it needs to happen, it will.
Is this note actually from the monitors or a disgruntled poster? If it is from the monitors, don’t they realize that generalizations in the form of a quote of rules mean nothing? Specifics are necessary in order to understand and to comply or challenge their concerns.
JamesG
Nick
Member
There have been attacks on some people's faiths in this thread, and also quotes like "if you continue this, I will fight you"...etc etc. Let's address the issue not the perosn (this note is for all).
I won't discuss this matter any further, James. I don't think it's hard to ask people to just discuss things, and not people.
Moving on...
I won't discuss this matter any further, James. I don't think it's hard to ask people to just discuss things, and not people.
Moving on...
jasoncran
Member
wow, i thought people didnt like harry potter. this movie will be like that one too. Folks, one must decide whether or not foryourself if its wise or not to watch this movie. I can do somethings that you may find unchristlike(bjj and or mma) and vice versa.
Let's not be soo heavenly minded that we are no earthly good.
Let's not be soo heavenly minded that we are no earthly good.
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EdtheNed and watchman F
Let’s consider this matter from a different angle. Who created the Na’vi and the creatures on Pandora? Or did they just evolve there by chance? Does the movie give a hint as to how it considers this matter? Does the Bible hint somewhere that living beings such as ourselves and the fauna and flora on the earth were also created on other planets?
JamesG
EdtheNed and watchman F
Let’s consider this matter from a different angle. Who created the Na’vi and the creatures on Pandora? Or did they just evolve there by chance? Does the movie give a hint as to how it considers this matter? Does the Bible hint somewhere that living beings such as ourselves and the fauna and flora on the earth were also created on other planets?
JamesG