Baptism - Salvation - Bible Contradictions ... ???

[vja4Him]

How can you explain this contradiction in the Bible:

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Several verses in the Bible seem to indicate that you must be baptized in order to be saved, while other verses claim that you are saved by faith, belief, and confession, but not including baptism.

 

[follower of Christ]

How can you explain this contradiction in the Bible:

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Several verses in the Bible seem to indicate that you must be baptized in order to be saved, while other verses claim that you are saved by faith, belief, and confession, but not including baptism.

repentance and water baptism seem to be a package deal in most of the NT...which is probably why Mark mentions baptism.

But we dont take one or two individual verses as you have to derive doctrine from when there is much more data to examine.

OTHER relevant data shows that belief is what is required...

and he brought them forth outside and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" And they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved, you and your household."
(Acts 16:30-31 EMTV)

So instead of pitting scriptures against each other to find 'contradictions', you ought to be looking to harmonize it all to find the common denominator...and for salvation that is belief in the Son of God (and all that scriptural belief would include).

 

[handy]

I agree, foC, and add this as well:

The devils believe in Christ and yet obviously are not saved. So, belief in of itself isn't what saves one, it is how one believes in Christ. The sort of belief that saves is the belief that generates love and obedience. Baptism is always the first step of obedience for the Christian. Doesn't do one much good to be baptized if one doesn't believe. But, then again, if one is a believer and begins one's walk with Christ with a refusal to be baptized, then one needs to examine their belief.

So, the two verses do indeed work in harmony with one another. One must believe to be saved. But that belief must be a belief that is alive with the desire to obey Christ's commandments. If not, one is truly no better off than the demons.

I'll also add this, if one is intent upon finding contradictions in the Scriptures, one will find them. If one prayerfully looks to how those seeming contradictions can harmonize, one will find that as well.

 

[Tina]

How can you explain this contradiction in the Bible:

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Sorry but exactly where is the contradiction ? ....

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."


The second part of Mark 16:16 makes it clear that only he who believeth not shall be damned .. , NOT he that believeth AND is baptized ... which John 3:16 also says.

 

[vja4Him]

How can you explain this contradiction in the Bible:

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Several verses in the Bible seem to indicate that you must be baptized in order to be saved, while other verses claim that you are saved by faith, belief, and confession, but not including baptism.

repentance and water baptism seem to be a package deal in most of the NT...which is probably why Mark mentions baptism.

But we dont take one or two individual verses as you have to derive doctrine from when there is much more data to examine.

OTHER relevant data shows that belief is what is required...

and he brought them forth outside and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" And they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved, you and your household."
(Acts 16:30-31 EMTV)

So instead of pitting scriptures against each other to find 'contradictions', you ought to be looking to harmonize it all to find the common denominator...and for salvation that is belief in the Son of God (and all that scriptural belief would include).

I am convinced that you must look at the whole picture of salvation. But I have a tough time trying to show people who believe that baptism is essential for salvation that baptism is not necessary for salvation.

However, I believe that baptism is something that all believers should do. I have been baptized. But how do you explain to others that there really is no contradiction in the Bible regarding salvation by faith alone ... ???

Some people claim that within that faith alone is baptism. That if you truly believe, then you will be baptized, at which point you will receive salvation. But if you continue to say that you believe in Jesus as your Savior, have confessed your sins, but have not yet been baptized, then you have not yet been saved ....

I understand clearly that my salvation has nothing to do with my getting baptized. I believe and am convinced that if baptism is a must for one's salvation, then that is a works doctrine, which is a false teaching.

 

[vja4Him]

I've seen people refute this argument ... I think their argument goes something like it wasn't necessary for the writer to include baptism at the end of the verse because baptism is naturally a part of the saving faith ...

Oh yes, and people at the time of that writing would have understood that baptism was necessary for their salvation. A believer who wasn't baptized was unheard of.

Also, I read somewhere that some of the people who strongly teach that baptism is a must for salvation claim that the ending of Mark 16:16 was added later, and is not in the most reliable manuscripts.

How would you counter those arguments?

How can you explain this contradiction in the Bible:

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Sorry but exactly where is the contradiction ? ....

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."


The second part of Mark 16:16 makes it clear that only he who believeth not shall be damned .. , NOT he that believeth AND is baptized ... which John 3:16 also says.

 

[follower of Christ]

I am convinced that you must look at the whole picture of salvation. But I have a tough time trying to show people who believe that baptism is essential for salvation that baptism is not necessary for salvation.

However, I believe that baptism is something that all believers should do. I have been baptized. But how do you explain to others that there really is no contradiction in the Bible regarding salvation by faith alone ... ???

Some people claim that within that faith alone is baptism. That if you truly believe, then you will be baptized, at which point you will receive salvation. But if you continue to say that you believe in Jesus as your Savior, have confessed your sins, but have not yet been baptized, then you have not yet been saved ....

I understand clearly that my salvation has nothing to do with my getting baptized. I believe and am convinced that if baptism is a must for one's salvation, then that is a works doctrine, which is a false teaching.

Personally I do not believe, because of things like the Acts passage I quoted, that lack of water baptism will prevent one from being saved.
I do believe that most Christians will just end up wanting to be baptised in water because it has been something we have just done from the beginning to profess our new found faith.
If Jesus did it, its good enough for me....especially knowing that He certainly did not do so for remission of sin, so I think He was, in part or in whole, setting an example to the church...

 

[handy]

I am convinced that you must look at the whole picture of salvation. But I have a tough time trying to show people who believe that baptism is essential for salvation that baptism is not necessary for salvation.

However, I believe that baptism is something that all believers should do. I have been baptized. But how do you explain to others that there really is no contradiction in the Bible regarding salvation by faith alone ... ???

Some people claim that within that faith alone is baptism. That if you truly believe, then you will be baptized, at which point you will receive salvation. But if you continue to say that you believe in Jesus as your Savior, have confessed your sins, but have not yet been baptized, then you have not yet been saved ....

I understand clearly that my salvation has nothing to do with my getting baptized. I believe and am convinced that if baptism is a must for one's salvation, then that is a works doctrine, which is a false teaching.

Personally I do not believe, because of things like the Acts passage I quoted, that lack of water baptism will prevent one from being saved.
I do believe that most Christians will just end up wanting to be baptised in water because it has been something we have just done from the beginning to profess our new found faith.
If Jesus did it, its good enough for me....especially knowing that He certainly did not do so for remission of sin, so I think He was, in part or in whole, setting an example to the church...

This really involves the entire faith/works controversy. Baptism, if done for salvation, becomes a work, just as you said vja. However, this doesn't mean that baptism is not necessary. Not all that is necessary has to do with salvation.

I think the problem here is that too often, Christians tend to think that salvation is the only thing that we have to worry about. We are so concerned with getting through the door, we don't even think about what's on the other side. Christ does not save us just to go to "heaven" after we die. If that were the case, then the best thing that could happen, once we are saved, is for us to drop dead.

"But we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which He prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." We are saved then, not just to wait out the rest of this life and get on to Paradise. We are saved to do that which God calls us to do, we are saved to work out a life of good works for Christ done in obedience. And, the first step of obedience is to be baptized.

 

[vja4Him]

I am convinced that you must look at the whole picture of salvation. But I have a tough time trying to show people who believe that baptism is essential for salvation that baptism is not necessary for salvation.

However, I believe that baptism is something that all believers should do. I have been baptized. But how do you explain to others that there really is no contradiction in the Bible regarding salvation by faith alone ... ???

Some people claim that within that faith alone is baptism. That if you truly believe, then you will be baptized, at which point you will receive salvation. But if you continue to say that you believe in Jesus as your Savior, have confessed your sins, but have not yet been baptized, then you have not yet been saved ....

I understand clearly that my salvation has nothing to do with my getting baptized. I believe and am convinced that if baptism is a must for one's salvation, then that is a works doctrine, which is a false teaching.

Personally I do not believe, because of things like the Acts passage I quoted, that lack of water baptism will prevent one from being saved.
I do believe that most Christians will just end up wanting to be baptised in water because it has been something we have just done from the beginning to profess our new found faith.
If Jesus did it, its good enough for me....especially knowing that He certainly did not do so for remission of sin, so I think He was, in part or in whole, setting an example to the church...

You have touched on a very important issue ... I would agree with you, and like to add that too many people/churches today are adding all kinds of things to salvation. Why can't we simply believe the Bible, when it tells us that if you believe you will be saved ... ???

What is so difficult about that ... ??? Well, when we look at many of the world's religions, we see that they do the same thing. They add all kinds of stuff that you must do in order to attain to salvation, nirvana, or perfection, or to be accepted in their group. Like the Muslims, who advocate the journey to the holy place. Other groups insist that you knock of more doors than anyone else, in hope that you just might get lucky enough to be accepted.

Others enforce the teaching that you must be baptized in their church, even if you have already been baptized; or that you must be baptized by a certain formula, or by a certain person.

There are so many things that people add to the formula of salvation. And I think that some people actually feel good when they know that they are somehow part of the equation for salvation. Makes them feel good when they did something. They met the requirements of the church, and are now accepted into the church, and so God most certainly will accept them now, right ... ???

I'm still struggling with trying to figure out how to explain the alleged contradiction between the scriptures that do seem to imply that baptism is necessary for salvation, and the scriptures on the other hand that tell us we are saved by faith alone.

There must be a logical explanation that will settle this issue ....

 

[handy]

There must be a logical explanation that will settle this issue ....

If it were that simple, then the debate wouldn't be here in the first place. ;)

I think the best one can do is to keep bringing folks back to the Scriptures to show that belief must come first, then the acts of obedience such as baptism. As Tina pointed out in her post, Mark 16:16 shows that if one doesn't believe, one will be damned. Not if one doesn't believe OR if one believes and yet is not baptized, one is damned. And, to stress that it's more than just a simple "belief" in God, (remember the demons) but the kind of belief that stirs one to submit to God. This is why I believe Mark said what he said regarding believe and be baptized, that the belief is the type that spurs one onto the good works for which we have been called.

 

[Vic C.]

Several years ago, the second half of this verse was pointed out to me: (which Handy already pointed out)

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Notice it doesn't say, "but he that believeth not and is not baptized shall be damned."

So just like Tina and Handy, I feel there is not contradiction between the two verses.

 

[vja4Him]

There must be a logical explanation that will settle this issue ....

If it were that simple, then the debate wouldn't be here in the first place. ;)

I think the best one can do is to keep bringing folks back to the Scriptures to show that belief must come first, then the acts of obedience such as baptism. As Tina pointed out in her post, Mark 16:16 shows that if one doesn't believe, one will be damned. Not if one doesn't believe OR if one believes and yet is not baptized, one is damned. And, to stress that it's more than just a simple "belief" in God, (remember the demons) but the kind of belief that stirs one to submit to God. This is why I believe Mark said what he said regarding believe and be baptized, that the belief is the type that spurs one onto the good works for which we have been called.

Which seems to tie in with what James says:

James 1:22-23, "22But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

23For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass."

and

James 2:14-26, " 14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

 

[follower of Christ]

This really involves the entire faith/works controversy. Baptism, if done for salvation, becomes a work, just as you said vja. However, this doesn't mean that baptism is not necessary. Not all that is necessary has to do with salvation.

Definitely agree.
When I was baptized it wasnt to be saved, it was simply an outward profession of what had happened inside.

"But we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which He prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

Fantastic passage !
Things are already set into motion for us to walk in....we just need to willingly do so

Great post, Handy

 

[duval]

Hi folks,

The Bible is its own best commentary. In Mk.16:16 Jesus didn't have to say "he that believeth not and is not baptied shall be damned." The 1st half of the verse tells what to do to "be saved", believe and be baptized! The last half of the verse informs as to who will be damned, "he that believeth not." Jesus in Jn.3:18 said "he that believeth not is condemned already." Unbelief is ALL it takes to be damned.

God bless
duval

 

[follower of Christ]

EXCELLENT point, Duval

 

[justvisiting]

The thief on the cross was not baptized, he was saved. John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. That is what water baptism is. You don't need to be baptized in water to be saved. It is an outward expression of an inward committment. Even if you were baptized in water, that still wouldn't guarantee your sincerity in the faith. God tries the heart, not the outward. What you are talking about is not much different than killing a thousand bullocks. God didn't approve of all there burnt offerings at all, because He looks on the heart. It takes faith to please him, not a tub of water.

 

[duval]

The thief lived and died under the law of Moses. We do not. Jesus the testator of the NT spoke his words to the thief before the words of Mark 16:15-16.

God bless,
diuval

 

[vja4Him]

The thief on the cross was not baptized, he was saved. John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. That is what water baptism is. You don't need to be baptized in water to be saved. It is an outward expression of an inward committment. Even if you were baptized in water, that still wouldn't guarantee your sincerity in the faith. God tries the heart, not the outward. What you are talking about is not much different than killing a thousand bullocks. God didn't approve of all there burnt offerings at all, because He looks on the heart. It takes faith to please him, not a tub of water.

I would agree. But how can you explain the differnt scriptures, some saying to be baptized for salvation, and others not mentioning baptism, but faith for salvation?

 

[duval]

And what about passages mentioning the confession of Christ or repentance to the exclusion of mentioning faith or baptism???? There are times when the part is made to stand for the whole.

God bless,
duval

 

[follower of Christ]

And what about passages mentioning the confession of Christ or repentance to the exclusion of mentioning faith or baptism???? There are times when the part is made to stand for the whole.

God bless,
duval

This is why we have to really study Gods word to get a feel for what the overall intent and message is. Taking one part to an extreme and not looking AT the whole and seeing what is actually being shown causes all sorts of problems.
My honest opinion is that a person should either just accept the simplicity of the gospel, or they should dive headlong into study, devoting their lives to it.

I read some years ago some words by a greek scholar that basically said that a LITTLE knowledge of Greek is a very dangerous thing. The person knows enough to get some basic ideas, but folks like to think they are more knowledgeable than they actually are, so they end up believing something that may not be true because they now think they are qualified to translate when nothing could be further from the truth.
Its better to reserve ones discernment until one has the time in...or let others who will put the time in figure out what is said instead.
Half hearted study results in half hearted understanding.

Read the bible. The WHOLE bible. Then read it again.
Read the whole New testament 25 times, beginning to end. Dont focus on any particular passage or verse or topic....just read. Read the letters like they are letters. Read the historical account as such.
When you get done my guess is that you will be in here EXPLAINING it all for us rather than asking confused questions.

Dont allow anyone to make you feel like YOU cant understand Gods word or need anyone to teach you but the Spirit of God.