Baptism with fire?

[Jethro Bodine]

so what would you consider filled with the spirit /baptism of the spirit? {Some advertise straight out that they are Spirit-filled.} yes some advertise every thing and are not.. good point..

What would I consider filled with the spirit/ baptism of the spirit? The endowment of the manifest presence and power of the Holy Spirit, displayed in supernatural qualities of character (peace, patience, etc.) and supernatural gifts (discernment, knowledge, wisdom, etc.).

It's one thing to accept by faith the fact that one has the Holy Spirit safely tucked away inside of them. It's entirely another to see Him actually at work in the deeds of the person he resides in.

 

[ezra]

What would I consider filled with the spirit/ baptism of the spirit? The endowment of the manifest presence and power of the Holy Spirit, displayed in supernatural qualities of character (peace, patience, etc.) and supernatural gifts (discernment, knowledge, wisdom, etc.).

It's one thing to accept by faith the fact that one has the Holy Spirit safely tucked away inside of them. It's entirely another to see Him actually at work in the deeds of the person he resides in.

that i can agree with

 

[YosefHayim]

What would I consider filled with the spirit/ baptism of the spirit? The endowment of the manifest presence and power of the Holy Spirit, displayed in supernatural qualities of character (peace, patience, etc.) and supernatural gifts (discernment, knowledge, wisdom, etc.).

It's one thing to accept by faith the fact that one has the Holy Spirit safely tucked away inside of them. It's entirely another to see Him actually at work in the deeds of the person he resides in.

What about gold dust, glory clouds, and barking?

 

[Milk-Drops]

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/181/7/d/meet_the_pyro_wallpaper_by_everythingniwi-d55igy4.png

 

[YosefHayim]

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/181/7/d/meet_the_pyro_wallpaper_by_everythingniwi-d55igy4.png

Is that Benny Hinn?

 

[Milk-Drops]

Is that Benny Hinn?

Nope

 

[YosefHayim]

Nope

Very analogous to human depravity.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What about gold dust, glory clouds, and barking?

I forgot what the gold dust thing is all about. I can't even think of a Biblical connection right off.

Glory clouds are entirely Bilblical. I can testify to being able to see a manifestation of the Holy Spirit. Don't wait around for God to appear that way....if it happens it happens.

Barking like a dog? Honestly.....hit the exit as soon as possible. Even if those who are doing that are genuinely Spirit-filled, they are, IMO, misguided and led astray by the Kundalini spirit that the founder of the Vineyard Church did not squelch when it made it's appearance in his first meetings many years ago. A little leaven works through the whole.

 

[YosefHayim]

I forgot what the gold dust thing is all about. I can't even think of a Biblical connection right off.

Glory clouds are entirely Bilblical. I can testify to being able to see a manifestation of the Holy Spirit. Don't wait around for God to appear that way....if it happens it happens.

Barking like a dog? Honestly.....hit the exit as soon as possible. Even if those who are doing that are genuinely Spirit-filled, they are, IMO, misguided and led astray by the Kundalini spirit that the founder of the Vineyard Church did not squelch when it made it's appearance in his first meetings many years ago. A little leaven works through the whole.

Whats the difference between the tongues of pentacostalism and kundulini?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Whats the difference between the tongues of pentacostalism and kundulini?

I'm no expert on the subject, but I don't think tongues is a part of the Kundalini experience.

 

[gracenote]

I believe the Holy Spirit, and the 'fire' are the same thing.

Chaff is the part of the wheat stalk that is disposed of. In the baptism of the Spirit, the chaff--the useless, hardened, outer husk of our flesh nature--is burned away, while the fruit of the plant is separated out and is harvested to our Master's pleasure. For the believer who has been baptized in the Spirit, the Holy Spirit does both; it divides the good from bad, burning off the undesirable parts of the wheat stalk, and harvesting the good.

How can we consider them to be one in the same when they are mentioned as separate things within the same sentence?
Can you back that suggestion up with scripture for us here?

 

[gracenote]

Whats the difference between the tongues of pentacostalism and kundulini?

Actually, it's a different kind of a tongue. Like the one James talks about.'
James 3:6 6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

The Pentacost somebody else might explain better for you. but the Most High God's Holy Spirit is what we're going for, not Kundalini-induced stuff.
I will confess it: I used to actually enjoy Kundalini-focused yoga.
The "Kundalini" spirit is a SERPENT. It tells the believable lie. "Father of lies."
Before I came to know Christ Jesus, I had no knowledge as to the harm I had incurred through choosing to use Yoga and regular meditation as a form of exercise and spiritual work on myself.
Once I'd found Christ, the scales literally fell from my eyes, and I began to view what I'd once thought all right as being unclean, and even spiritually out of favor with God.
Kundalini energy is the SNAKE straight from the time of Eden.
Our Heavenly Father's Holy Spirit is always PURE, and is called the "sweet, heavenly dove" in some hymns in that the Holy spirit's wisdom, truth and patience stand guard through the night over us as needed.
No Kundalini SNAKE winding itself around my heart will I trust again.
This leads to self destruction of a very subtle and really deceptive kind.
Hope I've helped you a little to understand what's at stake here is your SOUL if you engage in such practices.
Nowadays, I stick with our Lord and Redeemer. And I am healthier in spiritual and psychological terms than I ever could have dreamed before finding Christ (well He found me, but that would be for another time)
God's Peace through Christ to you

 

[Jethro Bodine]

How can we consider them to be one in the same when they are mentioned as separate things within the same sentence?
Can you back that suggestion up with scripture for us here?

Soitenly!
View attachment 6444
3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit..." (Acts 2:3-4 NASB)

 

[gracenote]

Soitenly!
View attachment 6444
3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit..." (Acts 2:3-4 NASB)

And yet, somehow, I can see how anything given by the Holy Spirit the Enemy will counterfeit through false teaching.

 

[JLB]

And yet, somehow, I can see how anything given by the Holy Spirit the Enemy will counterfeit through false teaching.

So, do we shy away from God's will and purpose for our lives, because the enemy has a counterfeit?

Here is the promise of God for those seeking this blessing and power to live pleasing to God, one that is empowered and led by the Holy Spirit.

For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!" Luke 11:10-13


JLB

 

[gracenote]

So, do we shy away from God's will and purpose for our lives, because the enemy has a counterfeit?

Here is the promise of God for those seeking this blessing and power to live pleasing to God, one that is empowered and led by the Holy Spirit.

For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!" Luke 11:10-13


JLB

Who's afraid ?
The Holy Spirit is all abiding.
I am not shying away, friend. Not from the Holy Spirit !

 

[YosefHayim]

Actually, it's a different kind of a tongue. Like the one James talks about.'
James 3:6 6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

The Pentacost somebody else might explain better for you. but the Most High God's Holy Spirit is what we're going for, not Kundalini-induced stuff.
I will confess it: I used to actually enjoy Kundalini-focused yoga.
The "Kundalini" spirit is a SERPENT. It tells the believable lie. "Father of lies."
Before I came to know Christ Jesus, I had no knowledge as to the harm I had incurred through choosing to use Yoga and regular meditation as a form of exercise and spiritual work on myself.
Once I'd found Christ, the scales literally fell from my eyes, and I began to view what I'd once thought all right as being unclean, and even spiritually out of favor with God.
Kundalini energy is the SNAKE straight from the time of Eden.
Our Heavenly Father's Holy Spirit is always PURE, and is called the "sweet, heavenly dove" in some hymns in that the Holy spirit's wisdom, truth and patience stand guard through the night over us as needed.
No Kundalini SNAKE winding itself around my heart will I trust again.
This leads to self destruction of a very subtle and really deceptive kind.
Hope I've helped you a little to understand what's at stake here is your SOUL if you engage in such practices.
Nowadays, I stick with our Lord and Redeemer. And I am healthier in spiritual and psychological terms than I ever could have dreamed before finding Christ (well He found me, but that would be for another time)
God's Peace through Christ to you

What I'm saying is I don't see the difference between kundulini tongues and the tongues of pentecostal churches. All the scriptures about tongues talk about languages. There's only one passage that talks about unknown tongues, saying it's pointless if it goes uninterpreted. If I started talking Swahili out of nowhere to you, you wouldn't have a clue what I was saying to you. You'd think I was nuts, and what I was saying would be unknown to you. So if we pray in other languages that people don't know, it's useless if others don't know what you're saying. That's the point I believe 1 Cor 14 is making.

I only ever once heart a testimony about tongues where someone talked another (real) language, but didn't realize it. Like in acts. They heard them in their own tongues.

 

[Sparkey]

If I started talking Swahili out of nowhere to you, you wouldn't have a clue what I was saying to you. You'd think I was nuts, and what I was saying would be unknown to you.

Jambo rafiki!

These days I really doubt if anybody would think that a person is nuts just because they speak Swahili even if it is "spoken out of nowhere," as you suggest. There is much confusion about tongues. Why add more?

But what you mention is essentially the same as what Paul said when he admonished the Corinthians. Let us look to understand (understand) what the Bible says (more than what either you or I think) :

1 Cor 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

The bible speaks about people who speak in tongues. They speak mysteries. In another verse we see that the Spirit gives the utterance. Paul compared two different Gifts of the HS and contrasted speaking in tongues with speaking by way of prophecy. But Paul was speaking to an audience who was "in on it" -- they had been baptized in the Holy Spirit and they knew what it was to speak in tongues. Some thought that by doing so they were showing themselves to be more holy. Paul corrected that impression. Prophecy is also utterance given by the Holy Spirit. There is a difference. Prophecy is understood. Understood both by the speaker and by the listener.

It is right to conform our thoughts and our feelings to the words of the Holy Spirit -- and we know there is a more sure word of prophecy -- the Bible.

(( The old moderator can't help himself --> this thread is about the Baptism of Fire more so than a discussion regarding tongues. It's hard to avoid because confusion is so wide spread ))

~Sparrow

So if we pray in other languages that people don't know, it's useless if others don't know what you're saying. That's the point I believe 1 Cor 14 is making.

No. The bible does not say praying in an unknown tongue (given by the Holy Spirit) is useless. In fact it says quite the opposite. They utter mysteries, yes -- but not "useless". They are speaking in the Spirit. We are commanded to eagerly desire the gifts of the Spirit. The gift of tongues is one such thing that we are told to seek after.

What 1 Corinthians was addressing -- the point of Paul's correction -- was their misuse of the gift. From the tone of what he said we can easily picture a rather confusing scene and this might be what you're talking about with the Swahili reference -- where they were using the gift in their services and there was no interpretation. The gift of tongues is not a social or public gift UNLESS it is accompanied by the Gift of Interpretation of Tongues. Although Paul does not say directly it sounds like things were getting out of hand. He limited the use by adding a couple rules

• -- don't keep on giving "Tongues" if there is no interpretation given by the Holy Spirit.
  
• -- don't have more than three (even with interpretations)

Therefore: Be eager to prophecy. Do not forbid the speaking of tongues.

Kindly consider this as it is crucial for understanding.

Private prayer (in tongues) does glorify God. Paul straight out says "I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, (but I would rather have you prophesy).<--- emphasis mine. He meant what he said. He would like every one of them (of us) to speak in tongues. His point was that Prophecy was better suited to building up the Body of Christ. Private tongues is fine anytime but not given to cause a disturbance.

 

[gracenote]

What I'm saying is I don't see the difference between kundulini tongues and the tongues of pentecostal churches. All the scriptures about tongues talk about languages. There's only one passage that talks about unknown tongues, saying it's pointless if it goes uninterpreted. If I started talking Swahili out of nowhere to you, you wouldn't have a clue what I was saying to you. You'd think I was nuts, and what I was saying would be unknown to you. So if we pray in other languages that people don't know, it's useless if others don't know what you're saying. That's the point I believe 1 Cor 14 is making.

I only ever once heart a testimony about tongues where someone talked another (real) language, but didn't realize it. Like in acts. They heard them in their own tongues.

In my experience, the Holy Spirit NEVER lies.
The serpent kundalini "energy" can and will. It can trick the unwitting, and so we must "test" everything.
Therein lies the main difference between the two.
I've experienced first the one (years ago), then the other (better).
The Bible says that we are to "test the spirits."
For me, the Holy Spirit trumps all and is pure and to be trusted. Always.
Some "speaking in tongues" has been tarnished by people not being properly purified or prepared to receive such a gift.
We have to be extra careful about such things. Our bodies are meant to be temples to the Holy Spirit. Nothing must sully such a temple.
And yet we live during a very risky and difficult era. (mixing metaphors here) We navigate shark infested waters at times, and must trim our rigging and keep our decks swabbed clean, our keels free of barnacles, and our holds water tight--no bilge water.
Avoiding TV and media helps me.
And I haven't read a novel in ages.
I'm not the perfect specimen, by any means LOL.
But it has helped me to keep plugging away at it.
God's blessed Peace through Christ to you

 

[Blake]

In my experience, the Holy Spirit NEVER lies.
The serpent kundalini "energy" can and will. It can trick the unwitting, and so we must "test" everything.
Therein lies the main difference between the two.
I've experienced first the one (years ago), then the other (better).
The Bible says that we are to "test the spirits."
For me, the Holy Spirit trumps all and is pure and to be trusted. Always.
Some "speaking in tongues" has been tarnished by people not being properly purified or prepared to receive such a gift.
We have to be extra careful about such things. Our bodies are meant to be temples to the Holy Spirit. Nothing must sully such a temple.
And yet we live during a very risky and difficult era. (mixing metaphors here) We navigate shark infested waters at times, and must trim our rigging and keep our decks swabbed clean, our keels free of barnacles, and our holds water tight--no bilge water.
Avoiding TV and media helps me.
And I haven't read a novel in ages.
I'm not the perfect specimen, by any means LOL.
But it has helped me to keep plugging away at it.
God's blessed Peace through Christ to you

Off topic, but, I feel prompted to ask you to pray for me! God bless!