Beat Their Swords Into......A Tree

[Drew]

This thread is a response to threads which celebrate the technology of death and doing power the world's way - through weaponry. The way of the gospel is not to delight in weaponry but......

And He will judge between the nations,
And will render decisions for many peoples;
And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks
Nation will not lift up sword against nation,
And never again will they learn war.

So to offer an alternative to those threads, I invite any and all who wish to express solidarity with the gospel imperative to the path of non-violence to participate as they see fit.

Now about the picture (see below).....

The Tree of Life is a contemporary sculpture made especially for the British Museum in 2004. It is constructed entirely out of decommissioned weapons. The tree stands 3.5 metres tall. Its trunk is a filigree of rusted metal rising from four thick roots at the base and sprouting overhead into a canopy of branches. Two-thirds of the way up, a small monkey springs up the trunk, its tail curved, its eyes trained on a bird's nest on a branch above its head. A mother bird, wings splayed, feeds her chicks in the nest that is partly hidden by leaves. On the opposite side of the tree a butterfly hangs from a branch.

All are the same tarnished brown colour. Like the tree, the creatures are made of gun parts: chopped-up AK-47 rifles, pistols and even rocket-propelled grenade launchers. Around the base of the trunk are more creatures - birds with abundant plumage, a lizard, a tortoise and a giant butterfly.

 

[ronniechoate34]

And He will judge between the nations,
And will render decisions for many peoples;
And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks
Nation will not lift up sword against nation,
And never again will they learn war.

Is this from the Book of Enoch? I seem to remember reading this there.


It reminds me of the antichrist and not the Lord Jesus Christ. I don't believe we will need plowshares or pruning hooks when the new world stands. We will probably still have need for those things when the antichrist appears though. Remember that the antichrist also promises an era of peace with a cease to wars.

 

[Drew]

And He will judge between the nations,
And will render decisions for many peoples;
And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks
Nation will not lift up sword against nation,
And never again will they learn war.

Is this from the Book of Enoch? I seem to remember reading this there.

It is from the book of Isaiah and celebrates God's reclaimed world, a project that has already begun. So when people beat their weapons into plowshares or symbols of God's beautiful ceation, they are saying "I commit to being a part of that project".

 

[ronniechoate34]

It is from the book of Isaiah and celebrates God's reclaimed world, a project that has already begun.

Isa:2:1: The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
Isa:2:2: And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isa:2:3: And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isa:2:4: And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.


I was wrong. I'm not always right. Even when it comes to simple matters. Boy do I feel dumb.


Jesus' kingdom is not of this world. When God reclaims the world Himself, then things will be set straight. Not until then. This is satan's world and the kingdoms belong to him. If you believe that we are destroying weapons and ridding ourselves of them in order for God to reclaim the world then you are mistaken. We can't afford to make those kinds of errors in judgment. When the antichrist does appear in the name of peace we would then be strongly inclined to believe he's just what we've been waiting on and working for.

 

[Drew]

Jesus' kingdom is not of this world. When God reclaims the world Himself, then things will be set straight. Not until then. This is satan's world and the kingdoms belong to him.

I don't mind getting off on this tangent if you don't. Despite what you may think, the Bible does never says that Jesus' kingdom is not "of" this world. And it certainly never says that, this side of the cross, Satan rules the world.

Do you want me to provide the relevant Biblical arguments?

 

[ronniechoate34]

Jesus' kingdom is not of this world. When God reclaims the world Himself, then things will be set straight. Not until then. This is satan's world and the kingdoms belong to him.

I don't mind getting off on this tangent if you don't. Despite what you may think, the Bible does never says that Jesus' kingdom is not "of" this world. And it certainly never says that, this side of the cross, Satan rules the world.

Do you want me to provide the relevant Biblical arguments?

Joh:18:36: Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.


2Co:4:1: Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2Co:4:2: But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
2Co:4:3: But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co:4:4: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[Drew]

Joh:18:36: Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

This is a verse which is almost always misunderstood.

In verse 36, Jesus seems to be saying "My kingdom has nothing to do with earthly kingdoms, so there is no 'political' dimension to my kingdom".

As it turns out, there is a huge translation issue here. Here is the rendering of verse 36 as per the NET Bible:

Jesus replied, “My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were fromthis world, my servants would be fighting to keep me from being 1 handed over 2 to the Jewish authorities. 3 But as it is, 4 my kingdom is not from here

The NET version is, my sources indicate, true to the original Greek. The greek word that is rendered “from†(above in the bolded and underlined cases) has the following definition:

“a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; direct or remote)â€

When the word is used properly, we see that the “not of this world†reading is misleading. The intended meaning is that the Kingdom that has been brought to earth is from Heaven - that is, Heaven is the point of origin for the Kingdom that has been initiated.

Jesus is a King. Jesus' kingdom, while not from this world, is rather clearly for this world.

 

[Drew]

2Co:4:1: Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2Co:4:2: But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
2Co:4:3: But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co:4:4: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

This does not say that Satan is Lord, it says that he is a "god". Not the same concept.

Jesus is Lord, as of the Cross. What happened to Satan at the cross - He was defeated:

And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

There is widespread misunderstanding about all this. Jesus is King right now. And Satan has been removed from his position of rulership. He is still a power in the world - a "god" as the verse you post shows - but He is certainly not the ruler of this world. Jesus is.

 

[ronniechoate34]

Eph:2:1: And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph:2:2: Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph:2:3: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.


Keyword now.

 

[ronniechoate34]

I am not saying that satan wasn't defeated. He still has power until he is taken out of the way.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

i think the problem is a lack of faith in the Lord and a lack of understanding that we as christians have weapons too that are mighty and more powerful then that of the world. But many have been given a Jesus and God that sits in heaven and doesnt really know what is happening here all the time and doesnt really intervene here or care much about what happens to the world or us his children so they feel like since God isnt out for them they have to be out for themselves.

We should instead realize that he numbers every hair on our heads and nothing can by any means harm us that He is not in total control of. There is no " chance" there is no enemy that is outside of his power and control and we are protected IN HIM, nothing can befall us that He is not aware of, and purposeing for our good or planning to protect us from.

2Cr 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:


2Cr 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)


2Cr 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;


2Cr 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.


2Cr 10:7 ¶ Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he [is] Christ's, even so [are] we Christ's.

 

[Drew]

Eph:2:1: And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph:2:2: Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph:2:3: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.


Keyword now.

Fair enough, but I have never denied that Satan is still a power in the world. He just isn't the reigning Lord - the Scriptures are clear that Jesus is in that position.