Being Perfect

[Alabaster]

Hopefully, but I received Jesus long before I repented of several sins I was committing.

You cannot repent without first coming to Christ in faith.

 

[glorydaz]

Those who say, "I have no sin," are liars --not because God can not, or will not perform all His full promise but because they make Him to be a liar. God has rightly declared, "All have sinned..." He also declares, "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not."

Teaching this to mean that we can never stop sinning through the working of the Holy Spirit by the power of the resurrection of our Lord and Savior is also making Him to be a liar.

"That ye sin not" does not say we won't ever sin but that we should try not to sin in order that our fellowship is not affected. It's speaking of our relationship with the Father. Sin is not counted as such when we are in Christ, but it does affect our fellowhip with Him. In Him there is no darkness AT ALL. Believers do not "walk" in darkness. This relates to our position in Christ as "perfect".

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

When we are in Christ, His blood cleanses us from all sin.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

It's a question of dominion. Sin has no more dominion over us. We're not to serve sin. Does that mean that we can avoid sinning completely? Sins of omission as well as commision?

What about this verse? Does this mean that if we don't keep His commandments we are not saved?

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Rather, John is speaking about those who would seduce and deceive...those who make claims of knowing God but have gone out from among them. Those who hate but claim they have no sin, etc.

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

John goes on to say "whoever is born of God" DOES NOT AND CANNOT SIN. Why? Because we are in Christ and there is no darkness AT ALL in Him. Once again...positional.

6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[watchman F]

You cannot repent without first coming to Christ in faith.

But you can continue to repent afterwards

 

[watchman F]

It isn't a lack of faith to believe John instead of someone who thinks we can be perfect while we still reside in these corruptable bodies of flesh.

God says we can. To disbelieve God is a lack of faith.

 

[watchman F]

Originally Posted by Sparrowhawke
Those who say, "I have no sin," are liars --not because God can not, or will not perform all His full promise but because they make Him to be a liar. God has rightly declared, "All have sinned..." He also declares, "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not."

Teaching this to mean that we can never stop sinning through the working of the Holy Spirit by the power of the resurrection of our Lord and Savior is also making Him to be a liar.

Exactly

 

[watchman F]

The righteousness of Christ has been imputed to us for this very reason....we can't have sinless perfection on our own.

Be assured that we cannot live sinless by our ability or our own strength. None of us can on our own live sinless lives, that is why we all need a Savior. However Christ living in us and through us can live sinlessly for us. The good thing is if we do sin we have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the righteous, and when we confess our sin He is just to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The first step to being perfected is to realize it is not us, but Christ is us and that we on our own would never be able to accomplish anything, only by the grace of God working is us and for us enables us to accomplish perfection. Even then it is not us, but the Holy Spirit working in us that accomplishes this, yet when we get to Heaven we get the credit. Good deal huh?

It's the righteousness of Christ that makes us perfect in the sight of God.

If you continue in sin you will not be accounted righteous.

Ephesians 5
1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth)
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

 

[watchman F]

Originally Posted by WIP
I have seen a similar theme repeated on this site on more than one occasion. Don't let yourself fall for Satan's lie that you can do it all on your own so that you may boast. Stay at the foot of the cross.

No one who believes God can perfect us thinks we can do it on our own. If that were the case the Jesus would not have had to die.

 

[Bazz1040]

Jesus told us we needed to be perfect. I think that frightens some people half to death, but what is there to be frightened about? We need to learn a little discipline is all. Right?

Becoming perfect as Jesus said has nothing to do with discipline; it has to do with expressing more and more the Nature of God in one’s life. And that is done through studying of God's word and regular prayer. As one draws closer to God through these things, the Holy Spirit becomes more a part of one’s way of thinking, and our human nature become less and less evident. But anyone can discipline themselves and have an outward appearance of becoming perfect. So the Spirit of God not only empowers one to grow in character of God, but the person also begins to think the way Jesus thinks and would do. The Holy Spirit is not only given to help us overcome, but also to replace our human nature with the Nature of God.

 

[Alabaster]

Becoming perfect as Jesus said has nothing to do with discipline; it has to do with expressing more and more the Nature of God in one’s life. And that is done through studying of God's word and regular prayer. As one draws closer to God through these things, the Holy Spirit becomes more a part of one’s way of thinking, and our human nature become less and less evident. But anyone can discipline themselves and have an outward appearance of becoming perfect. So the Spirit of God not only empowers one to grow in character of God, but the person also begins to think the way Jesus thinks and would do. The Holy Spirit is not only given to help us overcome, but also to replace our human nature with the Nature of God.

This is wonderfully correct.

 

[Elijah674]

No one who believes God can perfect us thinks we can do it on our own. If that were the case the Jesus would not have had to die.

'i' see the perfection that Christ REQUIRES as found in MATURITY, for one to be safe to save for all of Eternity. Nah. 1:9 (we will never be PERFECT in the Total Knowledge of the Godhead, but we will always be 'growing' that way, toward that type of perfection)

And Their required perfection in us? (past, present & future) Has been found all of the way from Gen. through Rev. Cain (satan) killed FAITHFUL Abel. For just one of the many who DIED [IN THE FAITH] (Faithful untile death! Heb. 11 finds that these 'ALL DIED IN THE FAITH') [DEATH BEFORE DIS/HONOR]. OK??

We see in Dan. the three [FAITHFUL] had already had their [MATURE] minds made up even if God allowed them to die! Dan. 3:14. Verse 14 even found this 'doubled' in testing. With a satanic way of escape! (see Eccl. 3:15) And even another future repeat? God says so!

NO: As 'i' see it, of us living in the present time, there are many in all of the world who claim to be Christians of some sort or another (even see God including the Rom. 8:14-15 faithful!) who will be TESTED WORLDWIDE just after USA starts the False forced Worship of not to be able to but or sell, & then the DEATH decree comes after this 'c'hristian second chance to repent, huh?

You know, 'world'! we all are good folks, these one can still just think it over and surely obey the LAW (Rom. 13) for that is all that it takes to SAVE THEIR SELF! A repeat even seen there! Acts 5:27-29

And it is these ones who choose death over Ceasar's Church/State who will [[PROVE]] Perfect!

--Elijah

 

[elijah23]

Becoming perfect as Jesus said has nothing to do with discipline;

I disagree.

 

[Bazz1040]

I disagree.

Well then, how came the Israelites were not able to? How came the Jews were not able to?

 

[Alabaster]

I disagree.

Legalists always will disagree. People who are legalists need the tempering of the Holy Spirit, which would reveal to the inner man that God already sees His children as perfect, and by His power working in and through us only can we be perfected, which is a process. We call it sanctification..

2 John 4:12 Amplified
No man has at any time [yet] seen God. But if we love one another, God abides (lives and remains) in us and His love (that love which is essentially His) is brought to completion (to its full maturity, runs its full course, is perfected) in us!




Who never stumbles????

James 3:2 Amplified
For we all often stumble and fall and offend in many things. And if anyone does not offend in speech [never says the wrong things], he is a fully developed character and a perfect man, able to control his whole body and to curb his entire nature.



While we do not have license to falter, we will nonetheless. I thank my God for His amazing grace, and that He is pleased with me, whatever.

 

[Sparkey]

"Let those who have an ear to hear, hear."

We are taught: 'run the race' with a certain mindset. Our spiritual walk is compared to athletes who trained for competition. If they train hard for a corruptible reward (vainglory: "look how great I am") how much more should we?

While running the race with an eye toward crossing the finish line (not "pie in the sky"), Paul sought the Lord three (3) times ("Let all things be judged by 2 or three witnesses") that it might depart from him.

...there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness...

Let me ask then, what prevented Moses from entering into the Promised land? What prevented that generation? Is there anything that we should fear?

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it]. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh [day] on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this [place] again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Those who seek to enter into the promise will not be able to through their effort of works. They that enter will enter through the works of Christ Jesus, through the power of His Resurrection. That belief does not negate the need to take up our cross daily, to deny ourselves, to obey all authority, to pursue peace, to admonish each other and build each other up daily in our most holy faith.

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. [Hebrews 4:15-16 KJV]

It is not my purpose here to prove to unwilling that God is Good and that He desires only the best for His Children. Rather, let our prayer become,

"That we become as holy as we can possibly be, here on earth, by the Power of the Holy Spirit, before we die. Let Your word profit your servants, Lord. Cause our hearts to be fixed on You so that we may rightly say, "If the Lord be for us, who can stand against us."

 

[elijah23]

Well then, how came the Israelites were not able to? How came the Jews were not able to?

An individual can repent of his sin, I believe.

 

[elijah23]

Legalists always will disagree. People who are legalists need the tempering of the Holy Spirit, which would reveal to the inner man that God already sees His children as perfect, and by His power working in and through us only can we be perfected, which is a process. We call it sanctification..

2 John 4:12 Amplified
No man has at any time [yet] seen God. But if we love one another, God abides (lives and remains) in us and His love (that love which is essentially His) is brought to completion (to its full maturity, runs its full course, is perfected) in us!




Who never stumbles????

James 3:2 Amplified
For we all often stumble and fall and offend in many things. And if anyone does not offend in speech [never says the wrong things], he is a fully developed character and a perfect man, able to control his whole body and to curb his entire nature.



While we do not have license to falter, we will nonetheless. I thank my God for His amazing grace, and that He is pleased with me, whatever.

If we repent of our sin, our troubles disappear, I think.

 

[Bazz1040]

An individual can repent of his sin, I believe.

Only if God grants them repentance.

 

[Alabaster]

If we repent of our sin, our troubles disappear, I think.

Every Christian has already repented. Even Christians who have repented of their ways and follow Jesus will have troubles. Let's be real, here.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Reality check -

Since it's a "Simple thing about "learning a little discipline" I assume you've done that little thing, and now live sinlessly.

How long did it take you to become "perfect'??? And how long have you been absolutely "sinless"???

Oh and which definition of "sin" do you ascribe to????

 

[elijah23]

Only if God grants them repentance.

With the Lord’s guidance, we can resist temptation.