Being Perfect

[elijah23]

that isnt heaven , we arent in heaven, and uh this verse that shoots that one down

all they that will live for christ shall suffer persecution.


so being sin-free on this earth (or close to it) doesnt mean we wont suffer or have worries.

in fact that is a promise!!!!!!

If you don’t have peace of mind, heaven does you no good.

If you have peace of mind, then why does it matter where you are?

Jesus said, “Repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand.†I believe he meant that if you repent, you will have heaven now.

 

[elijah23]

wow, why then does it say the the lord is coming for his own and will keep them in the time of jacob's troubles.

You know the Lord is inside each of us.

 

[jasoncran]

If you don’t have peace of mind, heaven does you no good.

If you have peace of mind, then why does it matter where you are?

Jesus said, “Repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand.†I believe he meant that if you repent, you will have heaven now.

wow, no.

heaven is this.

the throne room of God. its where the alter of the martyred saints is crying out for vengeance
where the four living creatures cry holy, holy, holy
where the offering of the 4 and twenty elders are offering incense

that is heaven ,not here on this earth

and again is there death and suffering in heaven?

why die here on this earth and will be persecuted in some shape or form.

 

[jasoncran]

You know the Lord is inside each of us.

paul i guess was confused when he said that to die is gain as he somehow doesnt know what you know.

or when he said that to be absent in body is to present with the lord.

we should do a study on what the lord means

i in you, and you in me

that means something different then what paul says.

with some one isnt the same as being in person.

yes God goes with us to where we go and wont forsake us. but are we in Gods presence as in see him face to face?

 

[elijah23]

wow, no.

heaven is this.

the throne room of God. its where the alter of the martyred saints is crying out for vengeance
where the four living creatures cry holy, holy, holy
where the offering of the 4 and twenty elders are offering incense

that is heaven ,not here on this earth

and again is there death and suffering in heaven?

why die here on this earth and will be persecuted in some shape or form.

Not all knowledge is contained in the Bible. For example, the Bible doesn’t tell you not to put your finger on a hot stove.

Therefore, just because what I tell you isn’t in the Bible doesn’t make it wrong. I’ve had time to experience many things in my 57 years. Yes?

 

[jasoncran]

Not all knowledge is contained in the Bible. For example, the Bible doesn’t tell you not to put your finger on a hot stove.

Therefore, just because what I tell you isn’t in the Bible doesn’t make it wrong. I’ve had time to experience many things in my 57 years. Yes?

we arent talking science or other things that arent mentioned, but something that is in the bible. who dwells in heaven and where heaven is.

so. i dont base my theology on expericence alone. if i have and exeperience from the lord is must line up with God's word.

and it does.

i am charismatic. we live in these moments but dare not base theology on them. as that flesh is a trickster.

i used to expercience the occult and so on and put that way , yet the bible never mentions auras or what i did.but it falls under what witchcraft is and i put it away.

the principle is there.

 

[elijah23]

we arent talking science or other things that arent mentioned, but something that is in the bible. who dwells in heaven and where heaven is.

I cannot ignore my experience. When I resist temptation, my worries disappear. It is profound.

 

[jasoncran]

I cannot ignore my experience. When I resist temptation, my worries disappear. It is profound.

that isnt what the bible says

all they that live godly lives shall suffer persecution. sooner or later the time will come where you may have to make a choice serve god or serve men.

and the later if not catered to may involve death, job loss, friends lost.

we arent called into bliss. that isnt what the bible says. if jesus suffered so will we.

marvel not if the world hates you but know that the world hated me first.

have you been mocked for your faith.

 

[Alabaster]

My experience is that when I haven’t committed a serious sin for a while, my worries vanish.

What constitutes a serious sin as opposed to a trivial sin?

 

[elijah23]

that isnt what the bible says

all they that live godly lives shall suffer persecution. sooner or later the time will come where you may have to make a choice serve god or serve men.

and the later if not catered to may involve death, job loss, friends lost.

we arent called into bliss. that isnt what the bible says. if jesus suffered so will we.

marvel not if the world hates you but know that the world hated me first.

have you been mocked for your faith.

Some things cannot be understood until AFTER we have repented of our sin.

 

[Alabaster]

The word translators use for 'perfect' in Matthew 5:48 is 'telios' in the Greek, which has a more broad meaning of 'complete', as in fully matured, whole... and 'holy'. We can't forget that Jesus spoke Aramaic, and the translation is indeed broad. It strongly hints at the Leviticus 11:44 and 19:2:

Leviticus 11:44 NLT
For I am the Lord your God. You must consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. So do not defile yourselves with any of these small animals that scurry along the ground.

Leviticus 19:2 NLT
Give the following instructions to the entire community of Israel. You must be holy because I, the Lord your God, am holy.


G5046
τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

 

[elijah23]

What constitutes a serious sin as opposed to a trivial sin?

I don’t think you need to know the details of my sins, do you?

 

[elijah23]

The word translators use for 'perfect' in Matthew 5:48 is 'telios' in the Greek, which has a more broad meaning of 'complete', as in fully matured, whole... and 'holy'. We can't forget that Jesus spoke Aramaic, and the translation is indeed broad. It strongly hints at the Leviticus 11:44 and 19:2:

Leviticus 11:44 NLT
For I am the Lord your God. You must consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. So do not defile yourselves with any of these small animals that scurry along the ground.

Leviticus 19:2 NLT
Give the following instructions to the entire community of Israel. You must be holy because I, the Lord your God, am holy.


G5046
τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

From experience, we learn when the Lord is satisfied with our behavior and when he is not, don’t you think? He has a way of expressing his pleasure and his displeasure.

 

[jasoncran]

Some things cannot be understood until AFTER we have repented of our sin.

that isnt what the bible says. are we ever so holy that we wont sin on this of earth?
nope.if i sin once then i have to repent therefore your point is moot

as 1 john 1:9 says if any man sin know this we have a propitation the man christ jesus who is faithful and just to forgive and faithful and just to forgive us of all sins.

not he didnt say you shall become so sinless that you wont ever sin. just that when you do repent and the lord will forgive you and take that desire away.

 

[Alabaster]

I don’t think you need to know the details of my sins, do you?

It appears by your post that you qualify sin into categories according to seriousness. I am asking for you to clarify.

 

[Alabaster]

From experience, we learn when the Lord is satisfied with our behavior and when he is not, don’t you think? He has a way of expressing his pleasure and his displeasure.

Yes, and so we don't have to run on a treadmill, seeking elusive perfection, but rather rest in Him and simply BE. When people tout the verse about being perfect, they are teaching a wrong concept of works and striving, which God doesn't call us to for right standing with Him.

When we are truly saved and walking with Him, our lives will reveal whose we are by a natural outpouring of works that reflect our faith in Christ. Not the other way around---which is the erroneous theme which is the undercurrent of this entire thread.

Faith generates good works. Good works for works sake, or for brownie points with God doesn't work. Good works is a natural outflow of faith.


God is pleased with faith.

 

[elijah23]

It appears by your post that you qualify sin into categories according to seriousness. I am asking for you to clarify.

There are certain things the Lord has taught me not to do. These are serious sins and I am punished for them. Among them are:

I am to be chaste. Since I am not married, I am not allowed to engage in any sexual activity. If I were married, I’d be required to be faithful to my wife.
I am not allowed to use tobacco.
I am not allowed to use alcohol.
I am not allowed to use drugs without a doctor’s prescription.
I am not allowed to use caffeine.

 

[elijah23]

Yes, and so we don't have to run on a treadmill, seeking elusive perfection, but rather rest in Him and simply BE.
[/B]

No, I think some effort on our part is involved.

 

[jasoncran]

There are certain things the Lord has taught me not to do. These are serious sins and I am punished for them. Among them are:

I am to be chaste. Since I am not married, I am not allowed to engage in any sexual activity. If I were married, I’d be required to be faithful to my wife.
I am not allowed to use tobacco.
I am not allowed to use alcohol.
I am not allowed to use drugs without a doctor’s prescription.
I am not allowed to use caffeine.

eat chocolate, and also that isnt a command as caffeine isnt that much of a psychoactive agent.

many things you eat may have that in it.

 

[elijah23]

When we are truly saved and walking with Him, our lives will reveal whose we are by a natural outpouring of works that reflect our faith in Christ. Not the other way around---which is the erroneous theme which is the undercurrent of this entire thread.

Jesus told us to be perfect. I think we can achieve that. That is the theme of this thread. What’s wrong with the theme?