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Bible Study Birthplace of Jesus

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Recently people have been trying to seperate fact from traditions concerning the birthplace of Jesus.
We are told that there was no room for them in the inn, only to learn that inn is not a good translation, and that it was in fact an upper room of a private home that was used to accomodate guests. Some propose that the Jews in Bethlehem had a courtyard and the lower terrace of it is where there more valuble animals were kept at night. It might have been there, within the court yard, that Jesus was born. The Jews had strong traditions of offering hospitality to stranger and especially to kin.

Another alternative theory has been raised by Cooper P. Abrams III on
bible-truth.org/BirthPlaceOfJesus.html

Using Micah 4:7-8 He believes the birthplace to be Migdal Edar which is located at Bethlehem. It is a watchtower for the temple sheep, the flocks for temple sacrifices at Jeruselem. It has a birthing room for expecting ewes to lamb that was kept ceremonially clean according to Rabbinical standards. It is possible the lambs were even wrapped in swaddling clothes. It was the shepherds of these sheep that came to worship Jesus.
 
This opening post is about where exactly in Bethlehem was Jesus born. There are debates among theologians whether Jesus was bornin a poor living condition
or whether he was brought to a holy and high place.
Traditionalists believe he was poor but Migdal Eder believes Jesusmay have been brought to a more holy sanctifing place to be born.

Basically either a stable or in contrast of some place of worship.
So I am asking here to others here what is your theory or view to where Jesus was born and what class of people was Joseph and Mary as in high, middle or low class? This would include the circumstances how Joseph and Mary had occupations taking care of the land and the house..

One more last bonus question if other posters would like to include when Jesus was born day, month year etc.
 
I think it is wrong to believe that Jesus was born in any other conditions then what the Bible tells us.
No one can say they were so poor that Jesus doesn't understand how they feel.
Poor, pain, abuse, temptation, wrongful death, Jesus went through it all for our sake.
 
This is an interesting subject. It has all the ingredients of a debate which in not allowed in the Bible Study forum. So, be careful to present facts, not debate. Thank you.
 
I believe Jesus was born during the Feast of Tabernacles, probably on the first day, and that he was born in a tabernacle. As for Joseph's and Mary's economic status, it is clear that they were not very well off. When it was time for Mary's purification, she offered two turtle doves or two pidgins (Luke 2:22-24). That was the sacrifice offered by the poor. Someone with more money would have offered a lamb (Lev. 12:8).

The TOG​
 
Hey Chopper
I didn't know what section to put this topic in. It was not the non believers or examine the scriptures or Christian science.
That is the tough thing about CF forum. I wish there were more options where to put oue misc. threads.
I would have put this in General Christian room if that was an option.
 
Hey Chopper
I didn't know what section to put this topic in. It was not the non believers or examine the scriptures or Christian science.
That is the tough thing about CF forum. I wish there were more options where to put oue misc. threads.
I would have put this in General Christian room if that was an option.

I would suggest Apologetics & Theology. That is a place where if your thread goes to debate, it's OK. The criteria for any thread is; if you think it will draw debate or not. Notice the different forums and note the ones that stipulate "No Debate". We, in the Admin. welcome your participation in CF.net. We are glad you are here. :clap
 
I would suggest Apologetics & Theology. That is a place where if your thread goes to debate, it's OK. The criteria for any thread is; if you think it will draw debate or not. Notice the different forums and note the ones that stipulate "No Debate". We, in the Admin. welcome your participation in CF.net. We are glad you are here. :clap

Thanks for the suggestion Chopper.
Would there be a way that you can move this thread in Apologetics & Theology?

I still would hope that if any more would post that this would not turn into a harsh debate but just a nice
discussion about what members opinions or theories are about when and where Jesus was born.
 
Levi did not have their land to grow flock. They should not have had any contract business either, as I think.

If they had, this would be more of a trade business they run in the Temple. Not very righteous, as I think.

***

"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered."

With love.
 
This is an interesting subject. It has all the ingredients of a debate which in not allowed in the Bible Study forum. So, be careful to present facts, not debate. Thank you.

Thanks for the reminder, Chopper.
By the way, you're looking mighty pastor like in your dress shirt and tie. :)
 
With no room in the Inn I'm thinking he was born with his head resting up against a lamb in amongst the sheep.. He never was one to want the chief seats and frowned on those that did.. from what i know of him he was humble from start to it is finished..

tob
 
Thanks for the suggestion Chopper.
Would there be a way that you can move this thread in Apologetics & Theology?

I still would hope that if any more would post that this would not turn into a harsh debate but just a nice
discussion about what members opinions or theories are about when and where Jesus was born.

I can move it friend, if it becomes a debate. Lets leave it here for now because I really like threads that are non-confrontational. They are a practice in obeying good rules of forum decorum.:yes
 
I agree with TOG, Feast of Booths, they were of very modest income considering Mary's offering and Joseph was a carpenter. Probably not land owners at all.
 
First I want to say this is my theory and based on what I may have read or heard.

Being the Son of God He should have been born in a majestic temple. But by his purpose to be made lower than angels Jesus did not desire the worldly Kingdom. As in Matthew 4 He rejects Satan’s offer to to have them.

Being on the same side Joseph was a hard working carpenter. The work of a carpenter can include heavy labor and much planning out measurements and all such things all day at work. So rather I will place Joseph as”Middle class’ or the more average ordinary today like union workers.

Joseph had a respectable job not living in the Rockefeller area but neither the Abraham Cabin boy either. Jesus after all was had a well known family in the area of living. If anyone said where is Joseph the carpenter and his wife Mary I bet most anyone in that city could walk you to their house.

The same effect on Nazareth. I’m pretty sure Jesus and His early family did not dwell inside the house all day for Jesus was out and they told him. Jesus look and see your mother and brothers are here to see you. Jesus answered and told them. “My mother and my brothers are those who do the will of my Father.” Not only that we see Mary at the wedding where Jesus changed the water into the best wine. So if Mary and Jesus were invited they were certainly well known people in Bethlehem and Nazareth.

But where would Jesus birth actually be born on that day? And when was Jesus actually born? I think the when is a much more of a debate than exactly what location. If there are some who do not know December 25th is partly due to the Roman Catholic Church observation of the birth of Jesus. Because Mary also has to be an important figure in the church what Christmas means and how it began.

If you read from the Britannica Encyclopedia about the origin of Christmas you will learn it began as a winter solstice festival which also honors pagan gods with the decorations of these small trees. I believe it was also a festival of gifts. http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/115686/Christmas

The Roman Catholic took Dec 25 to change it into the birth of Jesus on that day. Taking this pagan tree and gifts to match the Matthew 2 version of Jesus birth in Bethlehem. So we see the merge of winter season, festival observation and catholic transformation to fit this all as one story. Because if we truly celebrated Christmas in a Christian Church version people would have nativity’s in their living rooms instead of lit trees with a star on top.

The secular groups didn't want any part of Jesus and used Saint Nicholas an old Saint who was very cherishing at giving. . creating him as today Kris Kringle Santa Claus of the North Pole a fabled children story where no person any longer needed to acknowledge God any longer. . That’s why the word X mas replaced the name of Christ. X is also a Roman number as ten. Some say this X sometimes means six. So think about rated X movies. It is six in disguise.

Why share all this in terms of Jesus birth. Because RC makes Jesus to be a poor family that of a shepherd take as Catholics after all are very symbolic in their religion of worship prayer and practices. Mary is proclaimed to be perfectly and an innocent virgin all her life. While she is recognized as a mediator to Jesus himself now. The Shepard as being Gods sheep even as sheep is white wool another symbolic RC trait on Jesus image and birth.

So it is likely from the RC church we have mostly heard of the poor family version of this take and plus add the winter solstice Pagan origin with an incorrect Dec 25 date. Because they honor her conception the RC church honors the conception in December. What sense does that make that Jesus would be born 2 weeks 3 days later? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception

My only guess is the book of 1 Samuel. Hannah had a child who name was called Samuel. While he was young he stayed close to home. But of at age he was brought into the city where the Holy Temple to use the sacrifices to dedicate his life to ordain this young child which she promised. That if she brings forth a child he would Samuel serve God all his life.

I believe they went to a place to see a Godly woman also a nurse who would help Mary to bring Jesus in the world. . . Then Jesus when He became of age was presented as Samuel that Jesus would do the will of His Father God.

They took the anointed oils of frankincense and myrrh to place this upon him making Him as King Lord and Savior. About the Gold it was often to give the gift of jewelry and gold to a high ranking king. Even as Solomon received gifts of gold. A gift of God to the Messiah because He was greater than Solomon for He Jesus as a baby called the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. This is my belief on Jesus birth.
 
There are folks who will do what ever they can to chip away at about anything moral... It comes at no surprise many folks are still at working to devalue anything having to do with God... it started in the Garden

Not at you Wordsintoharmony just a general statement...
 
I learned this as a child and believe it to this day..

Away in a manger,
no crib for His bed,
The little Lord Jesus
lay down his sweet head.
The stars in the sky
looked down where He lay
The little Lord Jesus,
asleep on the hay.


The cattle are lowing,
the poor Baby wakes,
But little Lord Jesus,
no crying He makes;
I love Thee, Lord Jesus,
look down from the sky
And stay by my cradle
till morning is nigh.

Be near me, Lord Jesus,
I ask Thee to stay,
Close by me forever,
and love me, I pray!
Bless all the dear children
in Thy tender care
And take us to heaven,
to Live with Thee there.


tob

 
First I want to say this is my theory and based on what I may have read or heard.

Being the Son of God He should have been born in a majestic temple. But by his purpose to be made lower than angels Jesus did not desire the worldly Kingdom. As in Matthew 4 He rejects Satan’s offer to to have them.

Being on the same side Joseph was a hard working carpenter. The work of a carpenter can include heavy labor and much planning out measurements and all such things all day at work. So rather I will place Joseph as”Middle class’ or the more average ordinary today like union workers.

Joseph had a respectable job not living in the Rockefeller area but neither the Abraham Cabin boy either. Jesus after all was had a well known family in the area of living. If anyone said where is Joseph the carpenter and his wife Mary I bet most anyone in that city could walk you to their house.

The same effect on Nazareth. I’m pretty sure Jesus and His early family did not dwell inside the house all day for Jesus was out and they told him. Jesus look and see your mother and brothers are here to see you. Jesus answered and told them. “My mother and my brothers are those who do the will of my Father.” Not only that we see Mary at the wedding where Jesus changed the water into the best wine. So if Mary and Jesus were invited they were certainly well known people in Bethlehem and Nazareth.

But where would Jesus birth actually be born on that day? And when was Jesus actually born? I think the when is a much more of a debate than exactly what location. If there are some who do not know December 25th is partly due to the Roman Catholic Church observation of the birth of Jesus. Because Mary also has to be an important figure in the church what Christmas means and how it began.

If you read from the Britannica Encyclopedia about the origin of Christmas you will learn it began as a winter solstice festival which also honors pagan gods with the decorations of these small trees. I believe it was also a festival of gifts. http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/115686/Christmas

The Roman Catholic took Dec 25 to change it into the birth of Jesus on that day. Taking this pagan tree and gifts to match the Matthew 2 version of Jesus birth in Bethlehem. So we see the merge of winter season, festival observation and catholic transformation to fit this all as one story. Because if we truly celebrated Christmas in a Christian Church version people would have nativity’s in their living rooms instead of lit trees with a star on top.

The secular groups didn't want any part of Jesus and used Saint Nicholas an old Saint who was very cherishing at giving. . creating him as today Kris Kringle Santa Claus of the North Pole a fabled children story where no person any longer needed to acknowledge God any longer. . That’s why the word X mas replaced the name of Christ. X is also a Roman number as ten. Some say this X sometimes means six. So think about rated X movies. It is six in disguise.

Why share all this in terms of Jesus birth. Because RC makes Jesus to be a poor family that of a shepherd take as Catholics after all are very symbolic in their religion of worship prayer and practices. Mary is proclaimed to be perfectly and an innocent virgin all her life. While she is recognized as a mediator to Jesus himself now. The Shepard as being Gods sheep even as sheep is white wool another symbolic RC trait on Jesus image and birth.

So it is likely from the RC church we have mostly heard of the poor family version of this take and plus add the winter solstice Pagan origin with an incorrect Dec 25 date. Because they honor her conception the RC church honors the conception in December. What sense does that make that Jesus would be born 2 weeks 3 days later? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception

My only guess is the book of 1 Samuel. Hannah had a child who name was called Samuel. While he was young he stayed close to home. But of at age he was brought into the city where the Holy Temple to use the sacrifices to dedicate his life to ordain this young child which she promised. That if she brings forth a child he would Samuel serve God all his life.

I believe they went to a place to see a Godly woman also a nurse who would help Mary to bring Jesus in the world. . . Then Jesus when He became of age was presented as Samuel that Jesus would do the will of His Father God.

They took the anointed oils of frankincense and myrrh to place this upon him making Him as King Lord and Savior. About the Gold it was often to give the gift of jewelry and gold to a high ranking king. Even as Solomon received gifts of gold. A gift of God to the Messiah because He was greater than Solomon for He Jesus as a baby called the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. This is my belief on Jesus birth.

Bethlehem is the 'city of King David'

1Ch 11:7 And David dwelt in the castle; therefore they called it the city of David.
1Ki 3:1 And Solomon made affinity with Pharaoh king of Egypt, and took Pharaoh's daughter, and brought her into the city of David, until he had made an end of building his own house, and the house of the LORD, and the wall of Jerusalem round about.
1Ki 8:1 Then Solomon assembled the elders of Israel, and all the heads of the tribes, the chief of the fathers of the children of Israel, unto king Solomon in Jerusalem, that they might bring up the ark of the covenant of the LORD out of the city of David, which is Zion.
Luk 2:4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David.
Luk 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
1Sa 17:12 Now David was the son of that Ephrathite of Bethlehemjudah, whose name was Jesse; and he had eight sons: and the man went among men for an old man in the days of Saul.

What I find so amazing is that God again in His plan is so precise in the timing of the census and the birth of the Lord. Joseph and Mary had to go to Bethlehem for the census, to the where the ark of the covenant (a type) had been kept by King David. Jesus, being the true ark and son of David, is born there.
We also see that the city of King David is called Zion.
 
It is most certain that Jesus was born in Bethlehem. We can find that in Matt. 2:5-10.
So Bethlemhem is not into question. but were Joseph and Mary rich, middle or low class?
Was Jesus born in a simple stable of a poor like state or was he born in some place of worship or worth any value of money?

I ask these questions because of 2 things..
Yes Jesus made himself lower then the angels and that's the lower humble aspect of Jesus,
Then the aspect that he is the Son of God, King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

So was he born in a humble place or higher place of higher recognition?
I wonder this because a certain rich man of great wealth bought the tomb where he would lay.
So Jesus lies down in the hands of the rich.
So would his birth reflect his being rich because he is the Messiah the anointed one?
 

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