Can a clone be saved

[Lee100]

I was just wondering, since Obama now says that Cloning is okay, if he were to actually clone a person, in the near future, does that Clone have a soul and can a clone be saved.

 

[Carol Lowery]

Wow....ummmm......interesting, thought provoking, going to be awhile whirlwinding this situation around in my head before my personal spiritfilled analysis....wow this is what it's come down too with mankind....thanks Obama [sardonic]. I lovingly comply with God/Word, and realize these things shall/must come to pass for prophecy to be fulfilled, and preparing the way for the coming of our Lord, our Blessed Hope.

In the meantime, thinking about this one......but my first instinct with my gift of discernment the Lord has bless me with is, to realize this may be possibly a new breed of mankind that will be birth souless for the glory of satan.

 

[Lewis]

He said stem cell research, not cloning

 

[ephesus32]

Yeah, he said he wouldn't go as far to actually clone a human being, but was for more research on stem cells. and that really is a good question, it's something I can't give a good answer either.

 

[Lee100]

Thanks Carol Lowery, I do also think that these clones are not of God if they are born soulless. So if no human spirit is filling the shell of the person who is animated, who is, it would have to be a demon. What I mean is some one is at home in there. Just as when the devil, the antichrist is killed by his wound in the head as Revelation declares, the man’s soul goes immediately to hell, then the bible also says that he, the Antichrist is healed from his wound and comes back to life. It is no longer the man’s spirit inside the body, it is the devil himself living inside the man’s body to animate it and make it move. What do you think.

 

[Lee100]

I do think that if scientists place a bunch of cells in a woman’s womb and life begins, it is not the Baby’s fault how it got there and it will have a soul given to it by God. However if cloning is like it is in the movies where a shell is pre-prepared, and they animate it some how, then it is not of God and does not have a soul because the person did not go through God’s natural process of being made into a person.

 

[Lee100]

OBAMA IS NOT OPPOSED TO ALL HUMAN CLONING

On the morning of March 9, President Obama signed an executive order on stem cell research that also included a statement on human cloning. Many media outlets quickly released a story with headlines like that of the Associated Press, “Obama Calls Cloning ‘Dangerous, Profoundly Wrong.’†On the same day, at 1:40 p.m, Obama’s press secretary, Robert Gibbs, was asked about the cloning issue and he said, “I think the executive orderâ€â€I don’t have it in front of meâ€â€simply bans human cloning.â€Â

Commenting on this is Catholic League president Bill Donohue:

“Media reports which said that President Obama banned human cloning were wrong. So was White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs.

“What Obama did was ban cloning for human reproduction. Which means he left the door wide open for the federal financing of human cloning that does not result in having the embryo implanted in a mother’s womb. In other words, he did not rule out cloning human beings for research purposes. So it may be possible to clone human embryos and then cu t them up, if desired.

“I was misled on March 9. While I criticized the president for permitting the federal funding of embryonic stem cell research, I commended him for his ban on human cloning. As it turns out, y congratulatory remarks were without merit. I therefore rescind my commendation.â€Â

 

[Armor of God]

If they sin, which they will, the redemption plan God gave us through Jesus Christ would be just as valid to them.

There were many in Paul's day who believed Gentiles could not be saved and Paul addresses this in Romans:

Rom 2:9-12 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality. For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.

 

[Reido]

I don't see why clones wouldn't have souls if the rest of us do.
They're the same as anyone. They're made of the same stuff we are.
Why wouldn't they have souls?

 

[Paidion]

I don't see why clones wouldn't have souls if the rest of us do.
They're the same as anyone. They're made of the same stuff we are.
Why wouldn't they have souls?

IF, the rest of us do. That's a big "IF"!

The rest of us don't. We don't HAVE souls, we ARE souls.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The Hebrew word for "soul" in the above verse is "nephesh". Animals, too, are "souls"

Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living nephesh after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Did you ever hear of DEAD souls?

Numbers 6:6 "All the days that he separates himself to the LORD he shall not go near a dead nephesh

No one can accept the concept of "dead souls" of course. So the translators translated the word as "body" in that context.

However, the word does not mean "body". Nor does it mean "soul" in the Greek sense of there being an ethereal part of us which goes somewhere else at death.

The meaning of "nephesh" is "being". Just try substituting "being" for the word in the above verses, and you find it works perfectly.

We are all nephesh. For we are all beings. We are human beings. Or if someone insists, I suppose we could say we are "human souls."
.

 

[Reido]

I don't see why clones wouldn't have souls if the rest of us do.
They're the same as anyone. They're made of the same stuff we are.
Why wouldn't they have souls?

IF, the rest of us do. That's a big "IF"!

The rest of us don't. We don't HAVE souls, we ARE souls.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The Hebrew word for "soul" in the above verse is "nephesh". Animals, too, are "souls"

Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living nephesh after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Did you ever hear of DEAD souls?

Numbers 6:6 "All the days that he separates himself to the LORD he shall not go near a dead nephesh

No one can accept the concept of "dead souls" of course. So the translators translated the word as "body" in that context.

However, the word does not mean "body". Nor does it mean "soul" in the Greek sense of there being an ethereal part of us which goes somewhere else at death.

The meaning of "nephesh" is "being". Just try substituting "being" for the word in the above verses, and you find it works perfectly.

We are all nephesh. For we are all beings. We are human beings. Or if someone insists, I suppose we could say we are "human souls."
.

In regards to the particular question I was referring to, it is assumed that we have souls. I was responding to the OP.

 

[PrimeRoot]

BEFORE I FORMED YOU...

I believe a man is known by God before God gives a man a body:
(New American Standard Bible)

Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you..."

I also believe that man cannot create life.

Thus, if a child is born naturally, or from IVF or any other surrogacy,
it is a valid individual inspite of there being a thousand with the same DNA.

THAT is why very careful consideration needs be given to
the use of IVF for obtaining "SEVEN of NINE"... or ONE of SIXTY etc,
abortion,
murder,
hate,
and the dozens of other selfish acts,
maybe including the
use of donated organs procured... by unknown means,
and a myriad of other uses of human parts:
frozen embryos or home grown clones...
whatever may be...

Better realize its a man first,
before any Hitler purifies a
"certain type" for "a good reason".

cheers.
BTW would someone be specific:
define "OP" please,
and define why this is better than a user name.

 

[Lewis]

Thank you, I use the word nephesh all the time, but you have givin me some other things to ponder.

Gob bless and thank you.

 

[Lee100]

I am replying back to Reido, in what she meant by OP, as original poster, or original person. If that is want she meant. As I said before, I do believe that if a person goes through the natural process of being born like everybody else, then I do believe that God will give them a soul, because it is not the persons fault how it got there in the womb. I would like to say that all people have souls who are born through natural processes. I don’t know of anyone who does not have a soul. Now where that soul is going is another thing. I know that the Bible says that many more will lose their souls than those who will be saved. Now All we have to do is wait and watch to see what will happen next on God’s time table.

 

[Reido]

Re: BEFORE I FORMED YOU...

BTW would someone be specific:
define "OP" please,
and define why this is better than a user name.

OP means original post/original poster.
I was using it to mean original post, so I wasn't using it in place of a user name.
I figured it would make things easier but I guess I shouldn't have assumed everyone would know what it meant.

 

[Reido]

I am replying back to Reido, in what she meant by OP, as original poster, or original person. If that is want she meant. As I said before, I do believe that if a person goes through the natural process of being born like everybody else, then I do believe that God will give them a soul, because it is not the persons fault how it got there in the womb. I would like to say that all people have souls who are born through natural processes. I don’t know of anyone who does not have a soul. Now where that soul is going is another thing. I know that the Bible says that many more will lose their souls than those who will be saved. Now All we have to do is wait and watch to see what will happen next on God’s time table.

Um...I'm biologically male. So I'm technically a 'he', not a 'she'. I really don't care, though. If you wanted to I'd let you continue calling me a 'she', but I imagine you'd want to refer to me by what me gender actually is.


But anyway, I'd have to agree with your viewpoint. I myself am not a Christian, but I do believe that if God does give us souls he would also give clones souls. I don't see any reason why he wouldn't, you know?

 

[Jon-Marc]

It would depend on whether or not that "person" had a soul. If it's a copy of a person, it can't have the same soul--so would it even have a soul?

 

[atheiststudent]

Sure! Science is nowhere near able to clone a person (and all the scientists I know aren't willing to try either), but I see no reason why a human clone wouldn't have a soul or be able to be saved. Here's my argument: Clones are genetically identical. You'd probably make one by taking some DNA from a donor and somehow getting it to grow into another human. Identical twins are in some sense the same idea. They share the same DNA and came from a single egg and sperm (the embryo happened to split on its own). We know that identical twins have souls and can be saved (and even grow into two adults with very different personalities). I'd expect a clone to be like an identical twin: same DNA, but it's own person in the most complete sense of the word.

 

[Adullam]

Apparently yes...repeatedly!

 

[Jon-Marc]

The TV Sci Fi version of a clone is that they make an EXACT copy of the original, with thoughts, memories, personality and experiences intact. Man is not capable of that--not yet anyway.

Considering how far knowledge has gone in just the last century or so, who knows what man will be capable of doing if this world continues another few hundred years. I don't believe that will happen considering the way evil is being called good, and good is being called evil. I expect (and hope) that God will be saying soon that "It is enough!"