Can Love for the Bible Get in the Way of a Relationship with God?

[gr8grace]

Someone once told me that it was apparant that I had a respect and love for God's Word but they could not tell that I had a relationship with God. When asked why they responded by saying that I was too practical and that I relied too much on book, chapter, and verse and didn't approach life with enough passion and emotion to really live it the way God intended.

In a nutshell I was told that I needed to do more feeling with my spirit than thinking with my head. At that time I believed that it was the Spirit that caused me to do so much thinking and rationalization. To me everything had to fit or make sense before if could be acceptable. I have struggled with getting by the 'by the book' mentality that's been instilled in me from childhood to the point where I have often believed that if it was not in the book, it couldn't be of God.

All that said, my question is this: Where is the point of that fine line between loving the God spoken of in the Bible and making the Bible that tells of God your god?

John 1:1~~In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The word is God.

 

[farouk]

Hebrews 11.6

What does this have to do with UNDERSTANDING what one reads? Before faith can be manifested, there must first be an understanding of the message or calling so one can act in faith.

It's about trusting the source. It's not about defying the divine Author with my puny intellect.

 

[farouk]

It's about trusting the source. It's not about defying the divine Author with my puny intellect.

Amen brother. That's us.

Well, exactly.

Blessings.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

It's about trusting the source.

Trusting the source is neither good nor bad. Their is no virtue in faith UNLESS the source that is being trusted proves trustworthy.

It's not about defying the divine Author with my puny intellect.

What is this act of defiance you speak of? Is trying to make sense of and understand what ones reads somehow a thing to be frowned at?
Additionally, when we presuppose divine authorship, we immediately must then hold what is written to an unbelievably high standard. Divine authorship should equal perfection, clarity, etc., as opposed to human authorship which would result in confusion, disagreements, and the like. Perfection is the fingerprint of divinity and anything sort of that is evidence of the work of man. Would it not be blasphemous to attribute to God that which reflects man's biased and authored in a way that leads to confusion?

------
As I have looked at the Bible in recent years, I find myself being embarrassed at how I esteemed it so highly with a sort of divine respect that all but made it my god. One day it dawned on me that if God was all i thought and hoped God to be, then God had to be bigger than the Bible. It was at that point that the scales came away from my eyes and I was able to see the Bible compilation as a book for man as opposed to it being God's book. As I reread things I had read countless times before I was able to see how its various points of views were very...........human. I was able to see that though it painted this picture of a mighty God, that it did so by making God Almightly an entity that is consummed with man. It defines God in terms of man and it's only about our plight and the plight of a limited number of us at that. All that makes me wonder if elevating the Bible to a divine status has done a diservice to God. And as far as trusting the source is concerned, a problem arises when one sees that contrary to the accepted belief, the source may very well be us and we, unlike a perfect God have proven time and again that we are not to be fully trusted.

 

[farouk]

It's about trusting the source.

Trusting the source is neither good nor bad. Their is no virtue in faith UNLESS the source that is being trusted proves trustworthy.

It's not about defying the divine Author with my puny intellect.

What is this act of defiance you speak of? Is trying to make sense of and understand what ones reads somehow a thing to be frowned at?
Additionally, when we presuppose divine authorship, we immediately must then hold what is written to an unbelievably high standard. Divine authorship should equal perfection, clarity, etc., as opposed to human authorship which would result in confusion, disagreements, and the like. Perfection is the fingerprint of divinity and anything sort of that is evidence of the work of man. Would it not be blasphemous to attribute to God that which reflects man's biased and authored in a way that leads to confusion?

------
As I have looked at the Bible in recent years, I find myself being embarrassed at how I esteemed it so highly with a sort of divine respect that all but made it my god. One day it dawned on me that if God was all i thought and hoped God to be, then God had to be bigger than the Bible. It was at that point that the scales came away from my eyes and I was able to see the Bible compilation as a book for man as opposed to it being God's book. As I reread things I had read countless times before I was able to see how its various points of views were very...........human. I was able to see that though it painted this picture of a mighty God, that it did so by making God Almightly an entity that is consummed with man. It defines God in terms of man and it's only about our plight and the plight of a limited number of us at that. All that makes me wonder if elevating the Bible to a divine status has done a diservice to God. And as far as trusting the source is concerned, a problem arises when one sees that contrary to the accepted belief, the source may very well be us and we, unlike a perfect God have proven time and again that we are not to be fully trusted.

We are talking about God's Word.

No higher source.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

We are talking about God's Word.

I am talking about how to view and understanding a compilation of writings that become a book that men have claimed to be the Word of God. Have men co-opted God to further their agendas and used His name to authorize that which is not divine in hopes of putting it on par with true godliness? There is little doubt that the book is an inspired one, the question is whether it was inspired by man's thoughts about God and written by men based on the inspiration of their own hearts about what God would be, want, and expect or was it literally put together by God and delivered to and by men.

------
Have we made the Bible a sort of demigod that we estract concepts from and use to reinforce our views of morality at the expense of actually seeking out the God we claim to love?

 

[farouk]

We are talking about God's Word.

I am talking about how to view and understanding a compilation of writings that become a book that men have claimed to be the Word of God. Have men co-opted God to further their agendas and used His name to authorize that which is not divine in hopes of putting it on par with true godliness? There is little doubt that the book is an inspired one, the question is whether it was inspired by man's thoughts about God and written by men based on the inspiration of their own hearts about what God would be, want, and expect or was it literally put together by God and delivered to and by men.

------
Have we made the Bible a sort of demigod that we estract concepts from and use to reinforce our views of morality at the expense of actually seeking out the God we claim to love?

ToS 2.2:

http://www.christianforums.net/announcement.php?f=64&a=6

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

[MENTION=41474]farouk[/MENTION]
So back to the topic. I again must ask what does this have to do with UNDERSTANDING what one reads? Before faith can be manifested, there must first be an understanding of the message or calling so one can act in faith? What is this act of defiance you speak of? Is trying to make sense of and understand what ones reads somehow a thing to be frowned at?

 

[farouk]

[MENTION=41474]farouk[/MENTION]
So back to the topic. I again must ask what does this have to do with UNDERSTANDING what one reads? Before faith can be manifested, there must first be an understanding of the message or calling so one can act in faith? What is this act of defiance you speak of? Is trying to make sense of and understand what ones reads somehow a thing to be frowned at?

Proverbs 3.5 talks about trust. The source can be trusted, whether or not it is understood.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Proverbs 3.5 talks about trust. The source can be trusted, whether or not it is understood.

But we're not talking trusting the source, we're talking about understanding the message delivered by/within the source.

 

[farouk]

Proverbs 3.5 talks about trust. The source can be trusted, whether or not it is understood.

But we're not talking trusting the source, we're talking about understanding the message delivered by/within the source.

Trusting 'Thus saith the Lord' is a good start.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

I have noticed (I think) that in some of your posts, you sometimes seem to uh. like, be offended or have the attitude of hey this should be easier or it should be handed to me,

At times I am amazed at how different people can get such divergent messages from the same source. For the most part, I don't blame the source. I believe that many who profess belief do guinuely believe but have not done their due diligence to insure that what they belief is actually in line with what has been delivered in the scriptures. Non-scriptural dogma bothers me and at time it bothers me greatly. Why is it that so many professing believers seem to be neglegent and lazy when it comes to knowing, understanding, and rightly dividing the Word? So yeah, I guess I do get slightly upset at times, but it's not due to not being able to grasp things found in the word. What upsets me is that people often equate their religious beliefs with the Word and expect others to afford the same respect for their beliefs as they do towards the Word.

you don't want to have to join the secret club to learn the "secrets" that should be handed to all..

Correct, I have no desire to join the club for after inspecting it, I have found it to be wanting and divisive. What I want to be a part of in a humankind that loves and respects each other that doesn't just seek after its own, but rather esteems others as being of more importance than one's self. There are many great lessons in the scriptures about living and loving that seems to get back-paged due to the 'club' promoting its dogmas as opposed to living the practice of love with as much ferver.

.No offense to you brother, I know that you seek the truth,

I rarely get offended here for I have found most posters to be pretty kind hearted. In life I seek a lot of things with truth and understanding being some of the things I greatly value. I like this forum because here, I know I am not alone in the pursuit of these things and various people have taught me things that have been very enlightening here.

.... this is the wrong approach to take to reading the bible and learning the ways of God. You must humble yourself and be of a contrite heart when you read and pray to the Lord. The Lord is Loving and merciful, and will give all that you ask for, but it must be done humbly and giving Glory to God. You may have trouble making progress because of the hardness of your heart?

For decades that was my very practice and I still advocate it for getting the best study results. The issue is when after having studied and prayed and meditated; why is it that the answers a few get differ so much from the mainstream? I kind of think it is the mainstream that already has their views entreanched as 'doctrine' that consistantly exhibits the hardest hearts as they are resistant to anything which may point to a flaw in the foundation they have been building upon. An open mind and contrite heart in studying the biblical writings has allowed me to see some things that has changed me many times over. I went from a hell, fire, and brimstone Baptist premillenialist to a partial preterist that was persuaded by the scriptures that the Church of God as well as JW's and SDA's were right about the afterlife and man's soul. During this transition I truly felt I was being bless to learn nuggets of truth that the Spirit helped me uncover while other being led by what we all felt was the same Spirit were at completely opposite ends of the belief spectrum. WHat gives? I find it funny that those that make it a point to me book, chapter, and verse believers are the ones that more often than not get labeled as heretics by those within the accepted and most popular dogmatic belief systems despite those 'heretics' being able to offer better scriptural support for their positions than the establishment. (shoutout [MENTION=67647]Stormcrow[/MENTION]).

 

[farouk]

God's Word: read it, love it, trust it, follow it.

 

[Nathanael Chong]

If you love the Bible, you love God because the Bible leads your heart to Him. One of the ways to have a relationship with God is to read the Bible.

 

[BigSodaExposer]

Well the spirit of truth guides one into all truths. Many people who found Christ were led to the KJV. It is my belief that the KJV is the official, infallible, word of God. And is preserved throughout the ages. All other bibles outside the KJV have alterations and changes. The very last lines of the bible read that if anyone alters or changes it they will be cursed. Many bible colleges and pastors prefer using the KJV, but they do not believe it is infallible. This is taught in bible colleges, that it is merely a translation. I believe whats in there is what God wanted us to have. There are no lost books....lost years of Jesus life...etc

 

[Chopper]

Well the spirit of truth guides one into all truths. Many people who found Christ were led to the KJV. It is my belief that the KJV is the official, infallible, word of God. And is preserved throughout the ages. All other bibles outside the KJV have alterations and changes. The very last lines of the bible read that if anyone alters or changes it they will be cursed. Many bible colleges and pastors prefer using the KJV, but they do not believe it is infallible. This is taught in bible colleges, that it is merely a translation. I believe whats in there is what God wanted us to have. There are no lost books....lost years of Jesus life...etc

We all love the KJV. That was the Bible that I started out my new life in Christ in 1974. The KJV was the only bible used at Glen Cove Bible College in Rockland, Maine where I graduated. And I preached from it in the three Baptist churches that I was the pastor. David Cloud, defender of the KJV http://wayoflife.org is his official web site, and has been my authority on the KJV for anyone who is a fan of that translation. I must add though that from the 1611 translation, there have been a lot of changes. In order to stay with your opening statement IMO you'd have to stick with the 1611 edition.

Today I use alongside the KJV, the ESV because it is the closest to the KJV with more accurate word for word translation. With all my KJV friends there is no argument on the ESV.

 

[Chopper]

At times I am amazed at how different people can get such divergent messages from the same source. For the most part, I don't blame the source. I believe that many who profess belief do guinuely believe but have not done their due diligence to insure that what they belief is actually in line with what has been delivered in the scriptures. Non-scriptural dogma bothers me and at time it bothers me greatly. Why is it that so many professing believers seem to be neglegent and lazy when it comes to knowing, understanding, and rightly dividing the Word? So yeah, I guess I do get slightly upset at times, but it's not due to not being able to grasp things found in the word. What upsets me is that people often equate their religious beliefs with the Word and expect others to afford the same respect for their beliefs as they do towards the Word.



Correct, I have no desire to join the club for after inspecting it, I have found it to be wanting and divisive. What I want to be a part of in a humankind that loves and respects each other that doesn't just seek after its own, but rather esteems others as being of more importance than one's self. There are many great lessons in the scriptures about living and loving that seems to get back-paged due to the 'club' promoting its dogmas as opposed to living the practice of love with as much ferver.



I rarely get offended here for I have found most posters to be pretty kind hearted. In life I seek a lot of things with truth and understanding being some of the things I greatly value. I like this forum because here, I know I am not alone in the pursuit of these things and various people have taught me things that have been very enlightening here.



For decades that was my very practice and I still advocate it for getting the best study results. The issue is when after having studied and prayed and meditated; why is it that the answers a few get differ so much from the mainstream? I kind of think it is the mainstream that already has their views entreanched as 'doctrine' that consistantly exhibits the hardest hearts as they are resistant to anything which may point to a flaw in the foundation they have been building upon. An open mind and contrite heart in studying the biblical writings has allowed me to see some things that has changed me many times over. I went from a hell, fire, and brimstone Baptist premillenialist to a partial preterist that was persuaded by the scriptures that the Church of God as well as JW's and SDA's were right about the afterlife and man's soul. During this transition I truly felt I was being bless to learn nuggets of truth that the Spirit helped me uncover while other being led by what we all felt was the same Spirit were at completely opposite ends of the belief spectrum. WHat gives? I find it funny that those that make it a point to me book, chapter, and verse believers are the ones that more often than not get labeled as heretics by those within the accepted and most popular dogmatic belief systems despite those 'heretics' being able to offer better scriptural support for their positions than the establishment. (shoutout [MENTION=67647]Stormcrow[/MENTION]).

ToT I like this post very much. Thank you for your thoughts.

 

[Chopper]

Well the spirit of truth guides one into all truths. Many people who found Christ were led to the KJV. It is my belief that the KJV is the official, infallible, word of God. And is preserved throughout the ages. All other bibles outside the KJV have alterations and changes. The very last lines of the bible read that if anyone alters or changes it they will be cursed. Many bible colleges and pastors prefer using the KJV, but they do not believe it is infallible. This is taught in bible colleges, that it is merely a translation. I believe whats in there is what God wanted us to have. There are no lost books....lost years of Jesus life...etc

By the way BSE Welcome to CF.net. You have found a very good forum with lots of wonderful folk who love God's Word and each other. I like the posts that you have already sent, you appear to be very knowledgeable in the Word. I will be looking forward to more posts and threads from you.

 

[BigSodaExposer]

We all love the KJV. That was the Bible that I started out my new life in Christ in 1974. The KJV was the only bible used at Glen Cove Bible College in Rockland, Maine where I graduated. And I preached from it in the three Baptist churches that I was the pastor. David Cloud, defender of the KJV http://wayoflife.org is his official web site, and has been my authority on the KJV for anyone who is a fan of that translation. I must add though that from the 1711 translation, there have been a lot of changes. In order to stay with your opening statement IMO you'd have to stick with the 1711 edition.

Today I use alongside the KJV, the ESV because it is the closest to the KJV with more accurate word for word translation. With all my KJV friends there is no argument on the ESV.

Go read my thread in health and fitness. I will show you how the word fasting has been removed from the ESV in Mark 9:29 but is in the KJV.

 

[farouk]

Well the spirit of truth guides one into all truths. Many people who found Christ were led to the KJV. It is my belief that the KJV is the official, infallible, word of God. And is preserved throughout the ages. All other bibles outside the KJV have alterations and changes. The very last lines of the bible read that if anyone alters or changes it they will be cursed. Many bible colleges and pastors prefer using the KJV, but they do not believe it is infallible. This is taught in bible colleges, that it is merely a translation. I believe whats in there is what God wanted us to have. There are no lost books....lost years of Jesus life...etc

I agree with some of what you say, but then, how were people saved before the KJV came into existence?