Catholic Apostacy

[golfjack]

Pope John Paul has noted with alarm that during the last few decades that the Roman Catholic Church hax experienced massiive defecttions from the faith by bishops, priests, nuns, and laymen. Many churhes in Western Europe and North America have abandoned traditional doctrines and minister to few attendees. Many parishes have no priest because so few young men join the priesthood. John Paul had confided to associates that his attemppts to reform the moral atmosphere in the Vatican were thwarted by a large network of actively homosexual priests and higher church leaders who resist every attempt at moral reform. The Catholic Church has been infiltrated by a number of wicked and immoral priests and bishops during the reign of Pope Paul six in 1963. Ominously, the Pope warned about the smoke of Satan which had entered the Sanctuary, referring to incidents of SAtanic ceremonies and pagan initiation rituals in the Vatican that defiled the Holy name of Jesus Christ. European newspapers have reported numerous cases of satanic pedophillia involving priests, nuns, and bishops in Turin, Italy, and various cities in America. These diabolical evil rituals involve the sexual defilement of innocent children by satanic priests as part of a Luciferian initiation ceremony that involve open worship of Satan.


These are just some of the things that I read from a book titled Final War by Grant R. Jeffrey. He also wrote about Protestant Apostacy, which is quite alarming.


May God bless, Golfjack

 

[Vic C.]

There has been a defection of parishioners in South America, to the Pentecostal churches. That caused an alarm in the Church too.

 

[destiny]

Apostasy is so widespread until it's like leaving the frying pan to jump in the fire, or leaving the fire to jump in the frying pan.
To me, the deception in the catholic church isn't hidden it's outright ...but the deception in a lot of the mainstream or protestant churches is more subtle and hidden.
I believe things will continue to get worse as we get closer to the end, and I believe there will come a time when Gods people will have to choose to either go the way of the masses ... or come out from among them.

 

[golfjack]

reply

You got that right Vic.


May God bless, Golfjack

 

[golfjack]

reply

Yes Destiny, Grant also talks about Protestant Apostates. He is a very credible authur too, and probably one best Bible scholars on end time events.



May God bless, Golfjack

 

[Vic C.]

Re: reply

You got that right Vic.


May God bless, Golfjack

I saw the report on both Religion and Ethics Newsweekly and on NightLine. People were reporting they had left because the Church was beginning to feel spiritually dead. :-?

 

[RND]

I wonder why people call it a "catholic" apostasy when today's modern Protestant's have virtually no clue what the separation of the Reformation was all about in the first place.

On top of that, they have the never to slam the "catholic" apostasy, yet have -zero- clue as to why they worship on sunday, thus accepting the eccleisatical mark of Rome.

It is truly a fascination of the ages.

If the pot is going to call the kettle black then at least the pot ought to know what it's talking about!

ROME'S CHALLENGE
Why Do Protestants Keep Sunday?

"Most Christians assume that Sunday is the biblically approved day of worship. The Roman Catholic Church protests that it transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday.

Over one hundred years ago the Catholic Mirror ran a series of articles discussing the right of the Protestant churches to worship on Sunday. The articles stressed that unless one was willing to accept the authority of the Catholic Church to designate the day of worship, the Christian should observe Saturday. Those articles are presented here in their entirety."

 

[stranger]

RND wrote:

ROME'S CHALLENGE
Why Do Protestants Keep Sunday?

"Most Christians assume that Sunday is the biblically approved day of worship. The Roman Catholic Church protests that it transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday.

Over one hundred years ago the Catholic Mirror ran a series of articles discussing the right of the Protestant churches to worship on Sunday. The articles stressed that unless one was willing to accept the authority of the Catholic Church to designate the day of worship, the Christian should observe Saturday. Those articles are presented here in their entirety."

Hi RND,

There is no warrant for changing the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. While I believe Christians can and do meet any day of the week - and that's fine by me - it is another matter altogether to say it (the Sabbath)was changed when Jesus rose from the dead.

Briefly, in creation God rested on the seventh day, in the law we are reminded to observe the Sabbath, and finally, the 'new creation' began on the first day of the week ie the day of the resurrection. It is significant, I believe, that the 'old creation' was thus terminated on the Sabbath and perfectly observed when Jesus rested in the grave. It is also fitting that the new creation, being a WORK of God, started on the first day of the week and not the Sabbath lest God breaks His own laws that He set forth for us. Similarly, when the new creation is fully consumated it will end in an eternal Sabbath. . .

Then finally, there is the priority of the Jew - Sabbath changes occurred much later in history well after the early church was established.

From my own reading the Catholic Church says that there is no warrant in scripture to change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday - that is the extent of it. There were of course up to 5 'political' edicts issued by Rome (ie the Roman Empire) concerning the Sabbath - changing it from Saturday to Sunday. . .

So while I meet on Sunday to worship - it is not because there is anything in scripture that says I should.

 

[RND]

So while I meet on Sunday to worship - it is not because there is anything in scripture that says I should.

Uh, I think that was the point I was making. If, as you say, "there is anything in scripture that says I should" why are you doing it?

Clearly, and historically, Rome loves to claim she changed the day of solemnity from Sabbath to Sunday as a"sign" of her eccleisiastical authority.

There can be little question "protestants" that worship on sunday are following the commands not of the Bible, but the apostate whore that rides the beast.


The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, page 50, Peter Ceiermann:

Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer : We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D.336), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.

“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the church ever did happened in the first century. The holy day Sabbath was changed to Sunday…not from any directions noted in the scriptures, but from the churches sense of its own power…People who think that the scripture should be the sole authority should logically become 7th Day Adventists and keep Saturday holy.â€Â

Saint Catherines Catholic Church Sentinel, May 21 1995

 

[Rick W]

Jesus broke the Sabbath many times. Is he apostate also? Would He be judged as an apostate as I see claimed in this thread?

Matthew 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

Mark 3:2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.

Luke 13:14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.

John 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

The Pharisees knew the law and held to it rigidly accusing Jesus. Those of you who know the Law, what day the Sabbath falls on, would you judge Jesus in the same manner as those you judge that you say do not uphold the Sabbath on the "correct" day according to the Law?

What is more important? The day or the worship of our Lord and Savior? Will my salvation be any less if I hold tuesday as the Sabbath day? Will God's mercy and grace be revoked or will he love me any less? Will forgiveness for sin be withheld?

I think the point Christ was trying to make, according to scripture, concerning the Pharisees and their strict adherence to the Law has either been ignored or lost. And if that's the case then therein lies the apostasy. Live by the Law and be judged by the Law.

 

[Rick W]

As to the topic at hand:

The world and the "church" are definitely moving apart at an accelerated pace. As tolerance for immorality deepens the chasm between the "church" and the systems of men will widen. Those who can no longer hold to God's morality preferring instead to embrace the moralities of men, putting their faith in themselves, will leave the "church" for a more liberal and tolerant point of view further apart from God. Christ taught repentance, not tolerance of sin.
Some may see this as division within the "church" citing the upheaval as evidence of a floundering faith to lure many more away from truth when in fact it's the process of separating the wheat from the chaff. God's Word stands at the threshing floor with winnowing fork in hand. Those pointing to the chaff caught in the wind claiming the wheat has lost it's worth have been caught up with the same wind.

I put "church" in quotes to refer to all earthly churches. The Catholic church is the largest by far therefore will gain the most scrutiny and publicity. The apostacy is the separation from the morality of God regardless of which denomination is cited. No one denomination is immune. Each struggle with the same thing for all are "in" the world.

 

[stranger]

RND
Uh, I think that was the point I was making. If, as you say, "there is anything in scripture that says I should" why are you doing it?

Hi RND,
Why am I meeting on Sunday? It is because the church I attend meets on Sunday - as does nearly every other Protestant denomination. But I don't regard this as Sabbath observance. It is also important to note that Sunday worship is not forbidden in the bible.

Clearly, and historically, Rome loves to claim she changed the day of solemnity from Sabbath to Sunday as a"sign" of her eccleisiastical authority.

What was the practice of the early church?

There can be little question "protestants" that worship on sunday are following the commands not of the Bible, but the apostate whore that rides the beast.

Acts 20:7
And upon the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, intending to depart on the morrow; and prolonged his speech until midnight.

When Protestants meet on the first day of the week - are you also suggesting that the assembly of believers mentioned in Acts and the Apostle Paul were following an apostate whore that rides the beast?

The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, page 50, Peter Ceiermann:

Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer : We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D.336), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.

“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the church ever did happened in the first century. The holy day Sabbath was changed to Sunday…not from any directions noted in the scriptures, but from the churches sense of its own power…People who think that the scripture should be the sole authority should logically become 7th Day Adventists and keep Saturday holy.†Saint Catherines Catholic Church Sentinel, May 21 1995

You mention 336AD, I would be interested to know the dates of Emperor Constantines' edicts - were they before or after this date?

Who is Peter Ceiermann? How representative is the periodical magazine 'Saint Catherines Catholic Church Sentinel', dated May 21 1995 of official Catholic teaching?? You have to quote something more authoritative. Insofar as the Catholics say that there is nothing in scripture warranting the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday they are in agreement with you and on this point I agree also. On others issues I disagree.

 

[RND]

Jesus broke the Sabbath many times. Is he apostate also? Would He be judged as an apostate as I see claimed in this thread?

Well let's consider that statement for a second. Jesus was the "lamb of God sent to take away the sin of the world."

John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

In the sacrificial system the passover lamb was to be without spot. Exodus 12:5. Blemishes and spots were symbolic for sin. Remember, Jesus died during passover.

Jesus was sinless.

Hebrews 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

What is sin.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

So, if Jesus was the spotless Lamb of God, that was sinless, then by simple, reasonable deduction Jesus never broke the law. Even once. In thought or in deed.

If Jesus was a law breaker, then Jesus was a sinner, and thus could not have been the Lamb of God because He would have had spot.

Matthew 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

Mark 3:2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.

Luke 13:14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.

John 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

So you trust what the Pharisees observed versus the one who made and created the Law in the first place?

The Pharisees knew the law and held to it rigidly accusing Jesus. Those of you who know the Law, what day the Sabbath falls on, would you judge Jesus in the same manner as those you judge that you say do not uphold the Sabbath on the "correct" day according to the Law?

Certainly not. That's why I cook meals on the sabbath. The point of the day was missed by all the legalistic, (notice I didn't say lawful) burdens these pious religious leaders put on the sabbath, yet they picked none of these burdens up for themselves.

They were hypocrits. The "do as I say, not as I do" crowd.

What is more important? The day or the worship of our Lord and Savior? Will my salvation be any less if I hold tuesday as the Sabbath day? Will God's mercy and grace be revoked or will he love me any less? Will forgiveness for sin be withheld?

I suppose those are only questions you can know for sure in your own heart. But the scriptures do say:

Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

I think the point Christ was trying to make, according to scripture, concerning the Pharisees and their strict adherence to the Law has either been ignored or lost. And if that's the case then therein lies the apostasy. Live by the Law and be judged by the Law.

Nothing is changed.

Romans 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

James 2:12
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[RND]

Hi RND,

Hey there!

Why am I meeting on Sunday? It is because the church I attend meets on Sunday - as does nearly every other Protestant denomination. But I don't regard this as Sabbath observance. It is also important to note that Sunday worship is not forbidden in the bible.

It is also important to note that sunday worship is not approved in the Bible either.

What was the practice of the early church?

To meet on sabbath. See Acts 13, 17, and 18

Acts 20:7
And upon the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, intending to depart on the morrow; and prolonged his speech until midnight.

When Protestants meet on the first day of the week - are you also suggesting that the assembly of believers mentioned in Acts and the Apostle Paul were following an apostate whore that rides the beast?

I highlighted the interesting part in Acts 20.

The interesting thing to note regarding Acts 20 which you negleted to include is that the met at night, not during the day. They carried on until midnight.Using your logic church should be on Saturday Night, not sunday morning. In fact some translations even list this meeting as being on saturday night.

The next day, which would have been the first day of the week, as Paul was scheduled to travel, which would have meant by travelling he would not be going to church that day and exorting the congregation.

Read the whole chapter in context and you will clearly see this.

You call these people in Acts "protestants" but they weren't protesting anything. Besides, the term originated at the time of the Reformation in the 1500's.

You mention 336AD, I would be interested to know the dates of Emperor Constantines' edicts - were they before or after this date?

Before.

However, it is important to note that after Constantine left for Turkey, the secular governemnt fell apart rather quickly and the religious leadership took over.

Who is Peter Ceiermann?

I do not know. Apparently there was a typo.

THE CONVERT'S CATECHISM OF CATHOLIC DOCTRINE
By Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R.

How representative is the periodical magazine 'Saint Catherines Catholic Church Sentinel', dated May 21 1995 of official Catholic teaching??

I would say "in the same boat."

"The Scriptures indeed is a divine book but it is a dead letter, which has to be explained, and cannot exercise the action which the preacher can obtain." Our Priesthood, by Rev. Joseph Bruneau, S.D.D., p 155, B. Herder Company, 1911 ("nihil obstat" by M.F. Dinneen, S.S.,D.D. -Censor deputatus, "imprimatur" by James Cardinal Gibbons -Archbishop of Baltimore, "Re-Imprimatur" by Michael J. Curley -Archbishop of Baltimore).

"The simple fact is that the Bible, like all dead letters, calls for a living interpreter." The Faith of Millions, by Rev. John A. O'Brien, Ph.D., LL.D., p 155, published by Our Sunday Visitor, Huntington, Ind., 1938, ("nihil obstat" by Rev. T. E. Dillon-Censor Librorum and "imprimatur" by John Francis Noll, D.D. -Bishop of Fort Wayne).

"Like two sacred rivers flowing from paradaise, the Bible and divine tradition contain the word of God, the precious gems of revealed truths. Though these two divine streams are in themselves, on acount of their divine origin, of equal sacredness, and are both full of revealed truths, still of the two, tradition is to us more clear and safe." Catholic Belief, by Joseph Faa di Bruno, p 45.

"This is the goal too of the crafty Bible Societies which renew the old skill of the heretics and ceaselessly force on people of all kinds, even the uneducated, gifts of the Bible. They issue these in large numbers and at great cost, in vernacular (language of the people) translations, which infringe the holy rules of the Church. The commentaries which are included often contain perverse explanations; so, having rejected divine tradition, the doctrine of the Fathers and the authority of the Catholic Church, they all interpret the words of the Lord by their own private judgment, thereby perverting their meaning. As a result, they fall into the greatest errors. Gregory XVI of happy memory, Our superior predecessor, followed the lead of his own predecessors in rejecting these societies in his apostolic letters. It is Our will to condemn them likewise." Pope Pius IX, Qui Pluribus (On Faith And Religion), Encyclical promulgated on November 9, 1846, #14.

"The task of interpreting authentically the Word of God has been entrusted exclusively to the living teaching office of the Church." Vatican Council II, "Dei Verbum," ch. 2:10; ed. Fr. Austin Flannery, OP, Northport, NY: Costello Publishing Co., 1975, p. 755, (quoted in The Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 4: "The Book of Christians", Chapter 3: "True Faith Can Be Found Only in the Catholic Church").

You have to quote something more authoritative. Insofar as the Catholics say that there is nothing in scripture warranting the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday they are in agreement with you and on this point I agree also. On others issues I disagree.

Other than their direct words and statement, which to my knowledge have never been recounted, what further information would you find helpful?

 

[golfjack]

reply

Protestant Apostasy: Now, the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons ( 1 Tim. 4:1-2). The Bible warns that growing worldwide apostacy would characterize the Church during the last generation leading to the return of Christ. We should not be surprised of the progressive abandonment of the authority of Scripture among the churches. There was a confidential survey taken in 1982 of the the private religious convictions of ten thousand pastors and found that a majority of these mainline ministers have lost their faith. When asked if they believed that Jesus Christ was God, over 45 percent said no. An astonishing eighty percent rejected both the claim that the Bible is the inspired Word of God and that Jesus is the Son of God. 36 percent do not believe that Jesus Christ actually rose from the dead.The apostate church of the end times will be a church with the lowest common faith that holds almost no fundamental doctrines other than secular humanism and a pagan, idolatrfous worship of the god within.

These mainline denominations are starting to sprout up all over the world. Can you guys name some of these denominations?


May God bless, Golfjack

 

[RND]

Re: reply

Protestant Apostasy: Now, the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons ( 1 Tim. 4:1-2). The Bible warns that growing worldwide apostacy would characterize the Church during the last generation leading to the return of Christ. We should not be surprised of the progressive abandonment of the authority of Scripture among the churches. There was a confidential survey taken in 1982 of the the private religious convictions of ten thousand pastors and found that a majority of these mainline ministers have lost their faith. When asked if they believed that Jesus Christ was God, over 45 percent said no. An astonishing eighty percent rejected both the claim that the Bible is the inspired Word of God and that Jesus is the Son of God. 36 percent do not believe that Jesus Christ actually rose from the dead.The apostate church of the end times will be a church with the lowest common faith that holds almost no fundamental doctrines other than secular humanism and a pagan, idolatrfous worship of the god within.

These mainline denominations are starting to sprout up all over the world. Can you guys name some of these denominations?


May God bless, Golfjack

See what happens when the Laws of God are reduced to mere suggestions and recommendations?

Ezekiel 43:11
And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: 7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. 8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

 

[stranger]

RND wrote:

It is also important to note that sunday worship is not approved in the Bible either.

OK, you agree that Sunday worship is not condemned in the scriptures. Agree. We both agree that they met on the Sabbath. Now if meeting on the first day of the week was not condemned on what basis do you condemn it as per previous post? By whose authority?

What was the practice of the early church?

To meet on sabbath. See Acts 13, 17, and 18 agree and at other times as per Acts 20:7 :

And upon the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, intending to depart on the morrow; and prolonged his speech until midnight.

I highlighted the interesting part in Acts 20.

The interesting thing to note regarding Acts 20 which you negleted to include is that the met at night, not during the day. They carried on until midnight.Using your logic church should be on Saturday Night, not sunday morning. In fact some translations even list this meeting as being on saturday night.

Your now reverting to parts of the day - since there is both morning and night services amongst Protestants - are you vindicating those who meet at night or afternoon?

The next day, which would have been the first day of the week, as Paul was scheduled to travel, which would have meant by travelling he would not be going to church that day and exorting the congregation.

Read the whole chapter in context and you will clearly see this.

ok

You call these people in Acts "protestants" but they weren't protesting anything. Besides, the term originated at the time of the Reformation in the 1500's.

No I didn't call them Protestants - the early church was primarily Jewish. My sentence was drawing a parallel.

You mention 336AD, I would be interested to know the dates of Emperor Constantines' edicts - were they before or after this date?

Before.

So why not mention this? It is pretty important in any historical reconstruction to mention the edicts and early church practice up to 100AD, and any evidence between 100AD and 321AD.

However, it is important to note that after Constantine left for Turkey, the secular governemnt fell apart rather quickly and the religious leadership took over.

The division of the Roman Empire into east and west occurred after Constantines death - his sons took over:
from: http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/romans.html

312: Constantine becomes emperor
313: Constantine ends the persecution of the Christians (edict of Milano)
313: the Basilica of Maxentius is completed
313: Constantine recognizes the Christian church
330: Constantine I builds a new city, Constantinople (Byzantium)
337: after Constantine's death, his sons split the empire: Constantine II (Spain, Britain, Gaul), Constans I (Italy, Africa, Illyricum, Macedon, Achaea) and Constantius II (the East)

The 'Roman empire' continued as east and west for some time. Even though a web site (timeline) suggests until 1461 AD my own estimate would have been more conservative.

 

[RND]

OK, you agree that Sunday worship is not condemned in the scriptures. Agree. We both agree that they met on the Sabbath. Now if meeting on the first day of the week was not condemned on what basis do you condemn it as per previous post? By whose authority?

Uh, I didn't agree with that. I was making a comment with respect to your comment: "It is also important to note that Sunday worship is not forbidden in the bible." Sunday worship is clearly not approved anywhere in scripture.

Also, I am not condemning anyone. I am merely pointing out that Sunday worship is not Sabbath worship. Jesus condemns no one and neither do I.

And upon the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, intending to depart on the morrow; and prolonged his speech until midnight.

Using this scripture as your guide then honestly you should be meeting on Saturday night, not sunday moring. Paul was scheduled to travel the next day, on the first day of the week, and thus would not have been able to attend "services" (assuming they had been changed) making it extremely unlikely this is discussing anything other than a fellowship meal.

Your now reverting to parts of the day - since there is both morning and night services amongst Protestants - are you vindicating those who meet at night or afternoon?

You mention 336AD, I would be interested to know the dates of Emperor Constantines' edicts - were they before or after this date?

No thank you, but thanks for offering. Constantine's first sunday law was in 231.

No. I'm merely pointiung out that if you want to be consistent then you have to understand that Biblical days did no start at sunrise and sunset, they started at even and went to even.

The clues in this verse tell us it was the "first day of the week" near midnight. To be consistent with the scriptures as some protestants seem want to do they should be going to church saturday night at midnight.

So why not mention this? It is pretty important in any historical reconstruction to mention the edicts and early church practice up to 100AD, and any evidence between 100AD and 321AD.

No reason, I just didn't mention it. I think I was drawing the comparison between Constantines secular edict and it's religious enforcement.

The division of the Roman Empire into east and west occurred after Constantines death - his sons took over:
from: http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/romans.html

312: Constantine becomes emperor
313: Constantine ends the persecution of the Christians (edict of Milano)
313: the Basilica of Maxentius is completed
313: Constantine recognizes the Christian church
330: Constantine I builds a new city, Constantinople (Byzantium)
337: after Constantine's death, his sons split the empire: Constantine II (Spain, Britain, Gaul), Constans I (Italy, Africa, Illyricum, Macedon, Achaea) and Constantius II (the East)

Did my comments suggest something different?

The 'Roman empire' continued as east and west for some time. Even though a web site (timeline) suggests until 1461 AD my own estimate would have been more conservative.

The Roman Empire is still in power today as witnesses by the modern papal system and the Roman law that pervades the world.

 

[Vic C.]

No thank you, but thanks for offering. Constantine's first sunday law was in 231.

I think you got your date wrong. Plus, although he may have been responsibe for the "Blue Law" as we know it, there was no decree to make it an "official" day of worship. He didn't because Sunday worship was already going on for some time.

 

[RND]

I think you got your date wrong.

Yes, that was a typo. 321AD.

Plus, although he may have been responsibe for the "Blue Law" as we know it, there was no decree to make it an "official" day of worship.

This law prevented people from taking off saturday off and worshipping on their chosen day.

"On the Venerable Day of the Sun ["venerabili die Solis"--the sacred day of the Sun] let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost--Given the 7th day of March, [A.D. 321], Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time."--The First Sunday Law of Constantine 1, in "Codex Justinianus," lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Phillip Schaff "History of the Christian Church," Vol. 3, p. 380.

He didn't because Sunday worship was already going on for some time.

No doubt. But since that time as well people have been committing murders, stealing, murdering, making idols, etc. Does that make those activities any less wrong based on how long they have been done?

Would that argument work with you from your children? "Ah dad, c'mon...everybody else is doing it!"