Christadelphians

[Elvispelvis]

Quote Originally Posted by Mujahid Abdullah View Post
Thanks Doc and Mike,

Yeah, I didnt mean it to be snide, I meant that some of their beliefs line up with Islam, thats all.

they got all that from reading the bible. And I agree with it.

Now this sounds good on the surface to me - Islam does not believe Satan was an Angel, we do not attribute any omniscient powers to him - God is in complete control, there is no "struggle" between God and satan. But he doesnt openly deny the existance of Satan, so Im not sure if his beliefs in this regard line up with Islam.----------------

E"

Yes true Islamic people are the first to except Yashua as King and they bring Him gifts of gold and all there
wealth to worship at the feet of the King.
Arabs or the Sons of Kedar from his tents sons of Hagar
wife of Abraham the first born son of Abraham.
However Ishmael became a wild man of the desert , because
his mother made fun of Sarah, mocked Sarah, laughed at her in public, that she was barren and God has
chosen Hagar, you will never have a baby, you old hag, for Sarah was old.

As the desendants of Father Abraham the sons of Kedar shall have the land of their father Abraham in the
Kingdom of God on Earth with Yashua ruling bringing
PEACE ON EARTH AND GOOD WILL TO ALL MEN

YHWH HAS NOT FORGOTTEN THE PROMISES HE MADE TO HAGAR.

TO THIS DAY TRUE ISLAM TEACHES ONE GOD WITH YASHUA AS A MAN AND GREAT PROPHET
ISLAM DOES NOT BELIEVE IN A SUPERNATURAL SATAN FALLEN ANGEL

Please do not think for a moment that I support the RED Neck Jihadists who like red neck christians
want to kill in the name of God.

I clearly stated true Islam not red neck Islam.

For in the KIngdom to come there is neither Jew nor Greek nor Arab because there will be'
PEACE ON EARTH AND GOOD WILL TOWARD MEN.

Unfortunately for the red neck Arabs when Yashua returns He and the March of The Rainbowed Angel
moves from Sinai , to Teman to Bozrah to Jerusalem defeating all the nations, round about Israel.

REad the prophecies of the book of Isaiah how Yeshua enters with garments dipped in the blood
Of Jihadists.
After this all nations gather to ARMAGEDDON TO KILL YASHUA THE JEW.
How ever the Sons of Kedar fight on the side of Yashua .

The OT is full of future events, PROPHECY.

 

[Mike]

Mike said'

How and where are you arriving at this notion that there is a rejection of Christians by Christ? If you're talking about Mat 7:15-23, you are reading into it to serve your own ambitions and defend yourself. Where are you seeing that this refers to Christians. I would submit that He is referring to anyone who doesn't surrender himself to Him.........

E"

Thank you for your answers. Thank you for your genuine interest and questions. I love questions.
You took the time to go over most of my points so for this thanks.

Why do I hide who I am?
My ancestors were burned at the stake, I have been banned form facebook religious sites, and at least five other christian web-sites so I am a little gun shy of christians. In countries where they are not christian, they put us in prison.
On this site The Lords shows you what christians would do if the had the power to get rid of me.
Christains claim freedom of speech only if you agree with them.
By the way I sure appreciate the way what we believe keeps being posted over and over.
I did not have the nerve to do it so YHWH used someone else, who can not answer simple questions
in christian love. When you can not comprehend what is being said then attack the messenger.
Try to discredit them because they have bible verses I can not answer with logic and reason.

Sorry I digress how do we know Matt is talking about christians and their false leaders .


A Tree and Its Fruit

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Mike to grasp what is being said we should start in verse thirteen where we are told what the context of what is being said here. This is the actual "Judgment Seat Of Christ" . V 23 Christ literally says get away from me, this is not figurative He sends them into darkness literally.
We are told that the path is very, very, narrow and only a few find it. Not 600,000,000 like the churches would have you believe.
We are told it will be like the days of Noah when only eight people were saved and the 600,000,000 died. Notice it says wide is the path to destruction and the many go that way, dont they!
Verse 13 teaches that the gate is both small and narrow and few there be that find it!

Verse 15, 16, is a warning to study and learn as much as you can so false prophets can not fool you like all the others. We are given a way to tell if they are false prophets.

Psa 78:5 For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.
So the bible says if they do not teach the law and the testimony there is no light in them.
Remember the new testament was not written in Jesus time so He meant the old testament, the law and the testimony.
, Jesus never ever, ever,, ever, quoted from the new testament.
All the apostles taught the old testament ,the law and the testimony. I f you do not know what it is you should find out .
V 20 by there fruits you will know them, RC's kill Protestants, Protestants kill RC's, Christians kill Jews, Jews kill Muslims all in the name of God. Wars and rumors of wars for the history of mankind killing each other in the name of God.
This is the fruit of man!!
V 21 We are told who these people are who say Lord, Lord did we not prophesy..........." in your name"

So if they taught in Jesus name they must be christians , correct, do you see it?

Jews would never prophecy in Jesus name, correct, they do not even believe in Him .
Muslims would not prophecy in Jesus name so it can not be MUslims.,

So this group yell out we have performed miracles in your name driven out demons in your name,
there is only one religion that would make these claims, that is christians.

First, I would submit that Christians are being martyred as we speak. We don't have to reach back to cite historical atrocities committed by non-Christians toward Christians. It's happening today. As far as being not allowed or kicked off other boards, I haven't joined other faiths' boards, but I would expect there are many I wouldn't be welcomed at as a Christian. You can't possibly be validated in using your church's history and your experience on discussion boards to say you are persecuted.

And I'll just say again that you are reading into Matthew 7 what you want to read in order to suit your agenda. Jesus is speaking to those who will be false Christians; who claim to be followers but do not have Him in their hearts. I would submit that there are many more of them who are false than actually commit their lives to Him. No, He's not talking about all Christians. But I don't expect to persuade you of this. It will take the Holy Spirit to do that.

Of course Jesus never quoted the New Testament! It hadn't been written at that point! What kind of comment was that?

 

[Colton B]

Ouch, PR. I hope I'm not one of those idol worshipers you speak of. I don't have a statue of Mary on my front lawn is there's any connection. ;)

But I would dig deeper into Christadelphians and see them as they are. You don't have a big problem with them rejecting the theology of living eternally with the Lord? You believe hell is the product of legends?

(I don't think you believe these things, but I'm making a point, and I'm on a roll. )

How much more to the central tenets of Christianity could they be misleading people about. Jesus wasn't God, wasn't eternal, no heaven, no hell. This is starting to sound like a John Lennon song. Imagine all the people... being caught up in this strain of heresy. Fortunately not many have, but even a few is a few too many. Strip our faith of what they stripped it of, and it doesn't even resemble Christianity anymore.

I really hope that remark about Mary is sarcasm...

 

[Elvispelvis]

Mike said'

First, I would submit that Christians are being martyred as we speak. We don't have to reach back to cite historical atrocities committed by non-Christians toward Christians. It's happening today. As far as being not allowed or kicked off other boards, I haven't joined other faiths' boards, but I would expect there are many I wouldn't be welcomed at as a Christian. You can't possibly be validated in using your church's history and your experience on discussion boards to say you are persecuted.----------------------------------------

E"

In no way do I suggest we are martyred so we must be right. The bible says that.
All I was doing was to show that Christadelphians are persecuted by all religions.
Our history in Canada and the States is one of persecution .
We are thrown in prison in USA and Canada.
Why would anyone want to be a Christadelphian?

Mat 5:10 Blessed [are] they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Jhn 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Let the reader take note that they are persecuted for " my name sake"
'
The issue is about who He is FOR MY NAMES SAKE'

Christains call Him God and Jesus that is His name to them.

His title is Son Of God, Son Of Man, Yashua King of the Jews, King of the Earth.

Do christian persecute us because we say he is Son of God, Not God the Son?,

Just read the comments from some on this web-site how they feel about us denying He Is God.

I am so glad you admitted that Matt 7 is talking about the rejection of christians .

Who they are is up to the Heavenly Father but whether you admit it or not the word used is many, many, many,
but perhaps you can not see that word in the verses, many are rejected.

The OT is full of future events PROPHECY.

 

[Elvispelvis]

Mujahid Abdullah

hold up - what do you mean by a supernatural Devil? Because we dont beleive the devil is sin or


E"

Sorry M A
Excuse me I am not sure what kind of Muslim I was talking to .
I have heard of Sunni an Sheite how many more are there ?
Do you all believe the same.
Why do they kill each other?
Why do they hate so much?

I only meant to pass on the story Of Hagar and Ishmael.
I was wrong on the rest you do believe in evil spirits.

Well again there is no power but God.

 

[Mike]

Getting back to topic...

In no way do I suggest we are martyred so we must be right. The bible says that.
All I was doing was to show that Christadelphians are persecuted by all religions.
Our history in Canada and the States is one of persecution .
We are thrown in prison in USA and Canada.
Why would anyone want to be a Christadelphian?

Mat 5:10 Blessed [are] they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Jhn 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Let the reader take note that they are persecuted for " my name sake"
'
The issue is about who He is FOR MY NAMES SAKE'

Christains call Him God and Jesus that is His name to them.

His title is Son Of God, Son Of Man, Yashua King of the Jews, King of the Earth.

Do christian persecute us because we say he is Son of God, Not God the Son?,

Just read the comments from some on this web-site how they feel about us denying He Is God.

I am so glad you admitted that Matt 7 is talking about the rejection of christians .

Who they are is up to the Heavenly Father but whether you admit it or not the word used is many, many, many,
but perhaps you can not see that word in the verses, many are rejected.

The OT is full of future events PROPHECY.

Elvis, where you're coming up with this, I don't know. But you are pulling from scripture something that isn't there. You yank a few random verses from Matthew 5 and then somehow come to the conclusion that it's speaking to Christians as the "false prophets" and you as the persecuted. I've gone through long conversations with Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons, and there has been no getting through their indoctrination.

Matthew 5
" 1 Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2 and he began to teach them.

He said: 3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

It is for those who confess that Jesus is Lord, who confess and repent of their sins, who place their faith in the Lord Jesus who are the focus of this chapter. They will be hated, persecuted, done evil against.

As far as Matthew 7, He's not speaking about Christians. He's talking about false Christians who claim to follow Him, but have no heart for Him.

You're rejection of the Divinity of Christ is not unlike the beliefs of other cults that formed around the same time frame. The Mormons say the same thing you do, but they are deceived as well. They say they were driven out of where they lived and had to settle in Utah because they were being persecuted.

Staying in Matthew,

Matthew 9
"1 Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2 Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.†3 At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, “This fellow is blaspheming!â€
4 Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? 5 Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? 6 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.†So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.†7 Then the man got up and went home. 8 When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to man."

Elvis, who is able to forgive sins? Where does forgiveness come from? Jesus showed authority over nature, raised the dead and forgave sins. He was and is Fully God. Your entire post was taken out of context and applied to assume somehow, Christadelphians are the focus of scripture. That is really reaching, and I can't really engage with someone who has distorted it to the point that you have.

 

[watchman F]

Here are some of the things they believe;

www.christadelphia.org/belief.htm

Check out paragraph 4---WE BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS A MAN
or
paragraph 7---WE REJECT AS UNBIBLICAL THE IDEA THAT CHRIST COULD DIE AS A REPLACEMENT SACRIFICE FOR US

Westtexas

I absolutely believe that Jesus was God in the flesh, but I can understand how someone because of the three gods make one God teaching can reject that and see only the Father as God, and the Son as separate from Him. and as far as paragraph 7 goes the way they worded it is wrong as Christ sacrifice, and belief in it is what enables us to be reconciled to God, but it sounds to me like they are refuting universalism, not saing we arenot reconciled by Christ's death.

''Doctrinally, the Christadelphians are unique in Christendom in our understanding of the nature of Christ, and the way in which we are redeemed by his death. We reject as unbiblical the idea that Christ could die as a replacement sacrifice for us, thus covering all our sins forever with that one act. Certainly it is through his sacrifice that we may be forgiven, but only if we walk the path of self-denial that he marked out for us. ''

You see there are other things that must occur for us to have our sins forgiven.
#1 Repentance.
#2 Enduring in faith until the end

So in reality the death of Christ did not secure the salvation of all men. It simply made it available to us.

 

[watchman F]

Sometimes what things are on the surface are not what they seem when you dig deeper. For example, westtexas quoted a portion of their paragraph 7, but not the whole thing: "We reject as unbiblical the idea that Christ could die as a replacement sacrifice for us, thus covering all our sins forever with that one act. Certainly it is through his sacrifice that we may be forgiven, but only if we walk the path of self-denial that he marked out for us." I bolded the portion that she quoted. If you look further at their teachings, what they really reject is kinda the OSAS doctrine. They reject the idea that Jesus' death covers all sins and an individual only must believe and from then on they are always saved no matter how they live. What they believe is that forgiveness comes through Jesus' sacrifice, but that each of us is accountable for our own sins and must account for those, and it is our duty to live as Christ. I did read more about this on another page, which is why I saw more of an explanation. LOL But this is an example, where I do not have a problem with that belief, but I might if I looked even deeper. For example, I would agree with this philosophy-- but I would not agree if they state that it is through works that we are saved.

I agree with what you have said here PouringRain. By westtexas' quote you would think they didn't believe that Jesus sacrifice saves, but after looking at the whle quote they seemed to be rejecting as you said the OSAS or universlism. The do seem to believe hat the deat and resurrection of Christ is what we need to place our faith in.

 

[watchman F]

Originally Posted by PouringRain
anyhow, I am not going to go line by line. Certainly there are beliefs of theirs that I would reject outright, and many that I might reject in part. Overall, I do not have a big problem. I have more of a problem with some of the more mainstream christian sects who are engaging in idol worship.... and will remain nameless

Ouch, PR. I hope I'm not one of those idol worshipers you speak of. I don't have a statue of Mary on my front lawn is there's any connection. ;)

But I would dig deeper into Christadelphians and see them as they are. You don't have a big problem with them rejecting the theology of living eternally with the Lord? You believe hell is the product of legends?

(I don't think you believe these things, but I'm making a point, and I'm on a roll. )

How much more to the central tenets of Christianity could they be misleading people about. Jesus wasn't God, wasn't eternal, no heaven, no hell. This is starting to sound like a John Lennon song. Imagine all the people... being caught up in this strain of heresy. Fortunately not many have, but even a few is a few too many. Strip our faith of what they stripped it of, and it doesn't even resemble Christianity anymore.

I understand what your saying, and a few is too many, but what about those ''mainstream'' denomination (two of them that both start with C for example) that have so many deceived into believing they are right with God because of infant baptism or the OSAS doctrine. These denomination are sending way more people to Hell that the Christadelphians ever wil.

 

[francisdesales]

(Cont.)


So, I think when we talk about the elements of the Christian faith, then that is where things become problematic. That is where we have Catholics saying that only the Catholic church is the true church and non-catholics are not saved.

False. Before you attack any other Christians, get to know more about them (to include the stupid idol worshiping remark...) The Catholic Church has gone to great lengths to say that non-Catholics can be saved. Haven't you read the Catechism - even Muslims can be saved... 2

Regards

 

[theLords]

False. Before you attack any other Christians, get to know more about them (to include the stupid idol worshiping remark...) The Catholic Church has gone to great lengths to say that non-Catholics can be saved. Haven't you read the Catechism - even Muslims can be saved... 2

Regards

Francis, I did not realize you were a Catholic until you said you were. You are very rooted in Biblical Truth and I enjoy reading your posts. I believe that Christians and Catholics who abide in Christ will enter through the "straight and narrow."

You are probably the first devout Catholic that I have come across, with that said, may I ask you a few questions?

(please don't take this as argumentative or ridicule. I am sincerely interested as I see the fruit of the Spirit in your posts.)

Why does the Catholic Church subscribe that non-Christians will go to heaven like Muslims? It seems a bit universalist. Why do they believe this?

Another question I've always had is: How do you reconcile praying to saints and the graven images of the saints as shrines in the Church and in homes? Are there Catholics who remain in the Catholic faith and abstain from these practices?

 

[Strangelove]

False. Before you attack any other Christians, get to know more about them (to include the stupid idol worshiping remark...) The Catholic Church has gone to great lengths to say that non-Catholics can be saved. Haven't you read the Catechism - even Muslims can be saved... 2

Regards

ed!

Please expand on this friend.

 

[Dennyh]

Francis, I did not realize you were a Catholic until you said you were. You are very rooted in Biblical Truth and I enjoy reading your posts. I believe that Christians and Catholics who abide in Christ will enter through the "straight and narrow."

You are probably the first devout Catholic that I have come across, with that said, may I ask you a few questions?

(please don't take this as argumentative or ridicule. I am sincerely interested as I see the fruit of the Spirit in your posts.)

Why does the Catholic Church subscribe that non-Christians will go to heaven like Muslims? It seems a bit universalist. Why do they believe this?

Another question I've always had is: How do you reconcile praying to saints and the graven images of the saints as shrines in the Church and in homes? Are there Catholics who remain in the Catholic faith and abstain from these practices?

There is a thread in the one on one forum where they discuss Catholic/Protestant concepts. You might want to check it out.

1 on 1 Debates

 

[theLords]

There is a thread in the one on one forum where they discuss Catholic/Protestant concepts. You might want to check it out.

1 on 1 Debates

Thanks. Which thread is it?

 

[Mike]

totopic

 

[francisdesales]

You are probably the first devout Catholic that I have come across, with that said, may I ask you a few questions?

(please don't take this as argumentative or ridicule. I am sincerely interested as I see the fruit of the Spirit in your posts.)

Why does the Catholic Church subscribe that non-Christians will go to heaven like Muslims? It seems a bit universalist. Why do they believe this?

It is rather ironic, but that is what the Catholic Church teaches - it is POSSIBLE for a non-Catholic to enter Heaven. We see the Catholic Church as the fullness of the faith, but certainly, many non-Catholics have some correct understandings of Who God is and what He desires of men. That includes Muslims and Jews, who are certainly not 100% wrong! Those who love are from God, quite simply put. A person can be considered "invincibly ignorant" about the historical Christ and even the Bible as it truly is (rather than what Mullah Bob says...), love others with all of their heart because the Spirit blows where HE wills (and even writes a Law onto pagans' hearts, if He so chooses, says Paul to the Romans). God calls Whom He wills, and often, that is independent of where he worships at. Being saved is a work of Christ.

The Church is THE instrument in coming to know God, but God is not bound by what happens or the turn of events here. He certainly can and does call people who never even heard of the True Jesus.

Another question I've always had is: How do you reconcile praying to saints and the graven images of the saints as shrines in the Church and in homes? Are there Catholics who remain in the Catholic faith and abstain from these practices?

We don't pray TO saints in the modern sense of that understanding. We, like Paul, ask for others to pray for us. Paul constantly asks others to pray for him, he is not praying TO the "saints" in Thessalonika, for example. Those who are righteous (say, Mary) can and do pray for us, and their prayers are efficient (says St. James in his epistle). God promised that He would answer such prayers. While it may appear to the uninitiated that we pray to a statue, the statue, like any other creation, is useful in moving our minds to the prototype. In the case of a statue of Jesus, the Incarnate One Himself.

To understand Catholicism, one must understand "sacramentalism", the idea that we come into contact with the invisible God through visible signs. Incense and bells remind us of Divine Liturgy and the offering of our lives to God. Statues remind us of the heroic sacrifices of someone heeding the call of Christ. Yes, it can be abused, like any other notion. However, God contacts men through Creation, whether we like it or not.

If you desire further discussion, I would suggest we go to a 1-1 debate thread, not necessarily to debate, but because we can more freely discuss these issues without interference or highjacking a thread.

And now back to our scheduled program...

Regards

 

[theLords]

It is rather ironic, but that is what the Catholic Church teaches - it is POSSIBLE for a non-Catholic to enter Heaven. We see the Catholic Church as the fullness of the faith, but certainly, many non-Catholics have some correct understandings of Who God is and what He desires of men. That includes Muslims and Jews, who are certainly not 100% wrong! Those who love are from God, quite simply put. A person can be considered "invincibly ignorant" about the historical Christ and even the Bible as it truly is (rather than what Mullah Bob says...), love others with all of their heart because the Spirit blows where HE wills (and even writes a Law onto pagans' hearts, if He so chooses, says Paul to the Romans). God calls Whom He wills, and often, that is independent of where he worships at. Being saved is a work of Christ.

The Church is THE instrument in coming to know God, but God is not bound by what happens or the turn of events here. He certainly can and does call people who never even heard of the True Jesus.



We don't pray TO saints in the modern sense of that understanding. We, like Paul, ask for others to pray for us. Paul constantly asks others to pray for him, he is not praying TO the "saints" in Thessalonika, for example. Those who are righteous (say, Mary) can and do pray for us, and their prayers are efficient (says St. James in his epistle). God promised that He would answer such prayers. While it may appear to the uninitiated that we pray to a statue, the statue, like any other creation, is useful in moving our minds to the prototype. In the case of a statue of Jesus, the Incarnate One Himself.

To understand Catholicism, one must understand "sacramentalism", the idea that we come into contact with the invisible God through visible signs. Incense and bells remind us of Divine Liturgy and the offering of our lives to God. Statues remind us of the heroic sacrifices of someone heeding the call of Christ. Yes, it can be abused, like any other notion. However, God contacts men through Creation, whether we like it or not.

If you desire further discussion, I would suggest we go to a 1-1 debate thread, not necessarily to debate, but because we can more freely discuss these issues without interference or highjacking a thread.

And now back to our scheduled program...

Regards

Can we? I'm not looking to debate, I am just very sincerely interested in what you are speaking. Coincidentally, I agree with alot of what you're saying to a certain extent. I have alot more questions!

I'll get the thread started and ask a Mod to approve us as posters.

I'll name it "Questions for a Devout Catholic" lol ;)

 

[theLords]

Okay, done! Be on the look out for it. The mods of that forum are Vic and Stovebolts.

 

[jasoncran]

Okay, done! Be on the look out for it. The mods of that forum are Vic and Stovebolts.

no. lol

seriously each post will have to aproved so when you or joe(francis de sales) posts they will be approved all others wont be allowed.

and lords google that name the st.francis de sales it has a meaning to it and he is a person.

 

[theLords]

no. lol

seriously each post will have to aproved so when you or joe(francis de sales) posts they will be approved all others wont be allowed.

and lords google that name the st.francis de sales it has a meaning to it and he is a person.

okay i will