Christian rockers: ministry, vocation, or both? plus poll

[farouk]

...Intentionally spreading misinformation or trying make someone feel guilty about it, I'd consider coercing...

PS: questdriven:

Well, I think you've already experienced this kind of guilt manipulation a bit, haven't you?
............

Guys, don't forget the poll!

 

[evenifigoalone]

PS: questdriven:

Well, I think you've already experienced this kind of guilt manipulation a bit, haven't you?
............

Guys, don't forget the poll!

I'd say the pamphlets my church has against Christian rock are guilty of misinformation and, to some degree, guilt manipulation.

 

[Speculative]

I think Christian rock is a great ministry--I've been to see Petra, DeGarmo and Key, and DC Talk and there was a lot of scripture reading, prayer and encouragement as well as Bible based songs. I see no Biblical evidence for a "devil's beat" or anything that would prefer one style of music over another.

That being said, I do agree with something Eddie DeGarmo said at his concert: if rock music has been an idol to someone before they came to Christ, it would be wise for them to refrain from listening to it--even Christian rock--until they are sure they are delivered from the idolatry. Of course this could apply to any genre of music, but I think the message was mostly geared toward younger people.

 

[evenifigoalone]

When I read the scriptures I see the use of music that was popular in that time frame....

This is true.
I also read that music used for worship in the OT was more lively and rhythmic (like rock music), rather than melodic. Psalm 150 makes mentions praising the Lord with trumpets, timbrels (percussion instrument, similar to the modern tamborine) loud/high-sounding cymbals, which were among the loudest instruments at the time. Stringed instruments and harps are also mentioned, of course. We have the modern equivalents of the instruments mentioned in this Psalm in rock music.

What I meant was, that there's nothing in the Bible condemning any specific type of music.

 

[farouk]

I think Christian rock is a great ministry--I've been to see Petra, DeGarmo and Key, and DC Talk and there was a lot of scripture reading, prayer and encouragement as well as Bible based songs. I see no Biblical evidence for a "devil's beat" or anything that would prefer one style of music over another.

That being said, I do agree with something Eddie DeGarmo said at his concert: if rock music has been an idol to someone before they came to Christ, it would be wise for them to refrain from listening to it--even Christian rock--until they are sure they are delivered from the idolatry. Of course this could apply to any genre of music, but I think the message was mostly geared toward younger people.

Speculative:

Yes; William Cowper wrote:

"The dearest idol I have known,
Whatever that idol may be,
Help me to tear it from its throne,
And worship only thee."

And this can of course involve all sorts of things; the believer needs to keep a tender conscience before the Lord. Romans 14 is very searching.

Blessings.

 

[vocalyocal]

I'm not sure I would say the bible is silent on the issue, we see David playing music in 1 Samuel 16:14-23 and that Davids musical ability had the power to remove a distressing spirit,

I would also note the event in history where the musicians were sent out ahead of the army, and in their playing they caused the enemy to attack eachother, to the point there was nobody for the army to fight

music is very much linked to the spiritual world, even our own spirits are soothed by calming music and excited by triumphant music

 

[vocalyocal]

I would imagine they have whole shows dedicated to "American idols" which would confer that these people who are idolized, are idols to those who love them, I think the bible says a few lines about idolatry. Idolatry has many forms and ways that it can work in the lives of men and women, alot of people think that it is only worshiping idols of stone and wood, but in todays world people themselves have become they're own gods, even to the point of worshiping themselves

 

[Knotical]

I would imagine they have whole shows dedicated to "American idols" which would confer that these people who are idolized, are idols to those who love them, I think the bible says a few lines about idolatry. Idolatry has many forms and ways that it can work in the lives of men and women, alot of people think that it is only worshiping idols of stone and wood, but in todays world people themselves have become they're own gods, even to the point of worshiping themselves

It's funny you should mention this. They actually have a tour of either the top 12 or top 24 each season of the American Idol contestants that goes around the US. This has happened since the first season. It is part of the contract they sign when they get voted into the top 12/24.

 

[vocalyocal]

I agree the worship music in the bible had people dancing before the Lord, so lively music had to of been the case, like most cases of legalism, people take something so far to other side of the paradime that they even go as far as making instruments not part of the song service

 

[farouk]

I would imagine they have whole shows dedicated to "American idols" which would confer that these people who are idolized, are idols to those who love them, I think the bible says a few lines about idolatry. Idolatry has many forms and ways that it can work in the lives of men and women, alot of people think that it is only worshiping idols of stone and wood, but in todays world people themselves have become they're own gods, even to the point of worshiping themselves

I never watch that show, anyway...

 

[farouk]

...We have the modern equivalents of the instruments mentioned in this Psalm in rock music.

...

questdriven:

Interesting suggestion... Never really thought of it in those terms...

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

I think Christian rock is a great ministry--I've been to see Petra, DeGarmo and Key, and DC Talk and there was a lot of scripture reading, prayer and encouragement as well as Bible based songs....

Speculative:

Well, exactly.

A lot of the criticism of Christian rock is at the least inaccurate and sometimes verges to the fictitious.

I would say that if a person honestly doesn't like it on the grounds of personal taste, then this is fine. As long as the criticism is constructive and not based on inaccurate information, as it so often is.

Blessings.

 

[vocalyocal]

I would only ask one question, if you took all the biggest rock n roll bands and went through all the lyrics, who do you believe the spirit was with behind this music, was it one from God, or would you be wise enough to discern it was one of satanic origin, I have one more question if you can give me an honest response, as we are spiritual beings, we are all led by a spirit in one way or another

 

[farouk]

I would only ask one question, if you took all the biggest rock n roll bands and went through all the lyrics, who do you believe the spirit was with behind this music, was it one from God, or would you be wise enough to discern it was one of satanic origin, I have one more question if you can give me an honest response, as we are spiritual beings, we are all led by a spirit in one way or another

If the lyrics are God honoring, yet it is claimed that the song is supposedly bad because it is 'modern', or whatever, how can a subjective musical style supposedly overrule God honoring lyrics, the really objective part of the song?

 

[vocalyocal]

I guess we could look to God for an answer to that question, but I'm guessing you may not like the answer, because in the old testiment if an altar was built to offer a sacrifice to a pagan god, no matter how great and clean, and spotless a new offering was, it was never to be offered on an altar built for another god, In fact God had laid out specific instructions for how an altar for His sacrifices was to be built

If rock n roll was an altar built as a medium to offer up praise to satan, I'm just not convinced God would be smiling and welcoming somthing built on such a platform,

now with that being said I'm not saying music can't be wild and crazy, and full of instuments, it just seems Christian rock just mimics what was once offered up as praise to satan.........why can't musicians develop and create a new sound, a new genre, a new song of praise to God that blows rock n roll right off the map, I'm certainly not someone who is against a good beat and good rhythm.


I just don't understand why people aren't more concerned about what God may like over what they like, Isn't the whole point of offering up a sacrifice of praise, to be one that He likes.........more than what we prefer to sing

 

[farouk]

I guess we could look to God for an answer to that question, but I'm guessing you may not like the answer, because in the old testiment if an altar was built to offer a sacrifice to a pagan god, no matter how great and clean, and spotless a new offering was, it was never to be offered on an altar built for another god, In fact God had laid out specific instructions for how an altar for His sacrifices was to be built

If rock n roll was an altar built as a medium to offer up praise to satan, I'm just not convinced God would be smiling and welcoming somthing built on such a platform,

now with that being said I'm not saying music can't be wild and crazy, and full of instuments, it just seems Christian rock just mimics what was once offered up as praise to satan.........why can't musicians develop and create a new sound, a new genre, a new song of praise to God that blows rock n roll right off the map, I'm certainly not someone who is against a good beat and good rhythm.


I just don't understand why people aren't more concerned about what God may like over what they like, Isn't the whole point of offering up a sacrifice of praise, to be one that He likes.........more than what we prefer to sing

So, maybe just hypothetically (your language is not belligerent) you mean that a tune can be inherently a pagan altar, which God honoring lyrics can't change?

I would have thought that history demonstrates that the tunes of not a few well known hymns were originally drinking songs, but now the God honoring lyrics greatly outweigh former associations.

 

[vocalyocal]

very true, and how do we know if God was really pleased with them?

we see all through the bible people believing they are doing the right thing, in fact some of the things were prescribed by God to do

Cain offering up a sacrifice of his best crops, looked good as far as his intentions were concerned
Saul offered up a sacrifice that was required before going into battle, it to was done with the highest intentions of pleasing God, but it didn't

bottom line is this, Is christian rock n roll more about your taste and likes, or is it more about what God desires

 

[farouk]

very true, and how do we know if God was really pleased with them?

we see all through the bible people believing they are doing the right thing, in fact some of the things were prescribed by God to do

Cain offering up a sacrifice of his best crops, looked good as far as his intentions were concerned
Saul offered up a sacrifice that was required before going into battle, it to was done with the highest intentions of pleasing God, but it didn't

bottom line is this, Is christian rock n roll more about your taste and likes, or is it more about what God desires

So, logically, you would condemn the singing of Victorian hymnwriter William Chatterton Dix's 'What Child is This?' to the tune 'Greensleeves', because earlier the tune might have been regarded as being unsavory in some of its associations?

I guess also logically one would have to trash many hymnbooks with venerable hymns sung to well known tunes, if one followed this line of argument.

So logically also, according to what you are seemingly saying, you can moralize in favor of one's liking for Beethoven, etc., but you must moralize against a person liking something contemporary?

 

[vocalyocal]

His ways are not are ways, we can't logically figure out anything about God because nothing He does fits our paradigm of logic, If we were to think logically about God, then logically He should kill everyone on the planet

David said sing a new song and I think it was good advice

 

[farouk]

His ways are not are ways, we can't logically figure out anything about God because nothing He does fits our paradigm of logic, If we were to think logically about God, then logically He should kill everyone on the planet

David said sing a new song and I think it was good advice

I appreciate your reading of Isaiah 55; it's one of my favorite passages of Scripture, too.

But, again, I can't figure whether you really want Christians to condemn the singing of 'What Child is This?' by W C Dix, to Greensleeves, on account of possible former associations of the tune?

Because the lyrics and the tune are now regarded as one of the most traditional of Christian songs.

Put otherwise, I think you are trying to legislate in absolutes, about cultural and aesthetic matters which don't bear such paradigms, in my humble opinion.