I am aware of the limitations of the word "forever". I know that it doesn't always mean forever. As I understand it the Hebrews didn't have awordfor forever and would usually express it with something like to the agesof theages. However, I think more to the point is the fact that Stephen makes thepoint that the land was promised to Abraham personally and that he never received it. This eternal land inheritance was the earliest understanding of the Christian's hope. It wasn't until around the 200's A.D. that the ideaofgoing to Heaven entered the church. It seems to have entered the churchinAlexandria Egyptwith several Christians who were influenced by Greek Philosophy, Plato to beprecise.
The link is the paper I was referring to. It is "The Kingdom Of God"
Hi Butch
Clement was a common name in the first century, and it’s likely he was not the same Clement in Philippians 4:3. It’s not a proven fact Clement wrote, Clement of Rome - First Epistle. There is no internal evidence in the letters themselves.
The writer claims inspiration directly from God as in the quote following.
Quote “For I choose to follow not men or men’s doctrines” Unquote.
Your source of information as follows on the resurrection on the dead.
Quote CLEMENT OF ROME, First Epistle
CHAPTER 24 -- GOD CONTINUALLY SHOWS US IN NATURE THAT THERE WILL BE A RESURRECTION.
Let us contemplate, beloved, the resurrection which is at all times taking place.
Quote … For I choose to follownot men or men’s doctrines, but God and the doctrines [delivered] by Him. Forif you have fallen in with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit this [truth], and venture to blaspheme the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; who say there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls, when they die, are taken to heaven; do not imagine that they are Christians, even as one, if he would rightly considerit, would not admit that the Sadducees, or similar sects of Genistæ, Meristæ,Galilæans, Hellenists, Pharisees, Baptists, are Jews (do not hear me
impatiently when I tell you what I think), but are [only] called Jews and children of Abraham, worshipping God with the lips, as God Himself declared, but the heart was far from Him. But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, [as] the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.” (Chapter 80) …Unquote
Does Ezekiel and Isaiah and others support the claim about Jerusalem and the thousand years? Maybe you can connect the dots for me scriptually.
The only hope [Ephesians 4:4] is heavenly. [Philippians 3:20] The New Testament and Old do not mention a bodily earthly afterlife. The scripture one uses to proof differently is the “meek shall inherit the earth.” Matthew 5:5 However this verse is refereeing to all God’s children past, present or future. [1Corinthians 3:22]
No different then the other verses in the beatitudes; Matthew chapter five. In fact if we claim no meekness, humbleness in God's eyes,as Jesus said, Then we are not His Fathers child [Romans 8:15]. How clear is that?
Matthew 5:11-12 “Happy are YOUwhen people reproach YOU and persecute YOU and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against YOU for my sake. 12 Rejoice and leap for joy, since YOUR rewardis great in the heavens; for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior toYOU
Is Matthew referring to a future generation only; no, we are responsible for our own actions now. There is not going to be a second chance salvation plan in the future. It's now or never as the song goes. “And not the expression the devil made me do it.
Matthew 6:20-21 “Rather, store upfor yourselves treasures in heaven , where neither moth nor rust consumes, andwhere thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there yourheart will be also.”
This is what the Old Faithful looked forward to.
Hebrews 11:13-16 “In faith all these died, although they did not get the[fulfillment of the] promises, but they saw them afar off and welcomed them andpublicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land.14 For those who say such things give evidence that they are earnestly seekinga place of their own. 15 And yet, if they had indeed kept remembering that [place] from which they had gone forth, they would have had opportunity to return.16 But now they are reaching out for a better [place], that is, one belongingto heaven. Hence God is not ashamed of them, to be called upon as their God,for he has made a city ready for them.”
The One body
Hebrews 11:40 God had planned something betterfor us so that only together with us would they be made perfect
Hi before time,
None of this supports your argument. Heavenly is adjective not a noun. The passages don't say anyone is going to Heaven. You quoted store up treasure in Heaven. The treasure is there not the Christian. Jesus said He was coming back and His reward was with Him to give to any man according to his deeds.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward
is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Rev 22:12 KJV)
He coming back here, were not going there. There are multiple passages that state this. If a person has heavenly things it doesn't mean they are in Heaven. Heavenly is an adjective that describes the qualities of a thing. Something that is heavenly will have heavenly qualities not be in Heaven. A heavenly body will have qualities of Heaven, it doesn't mean that body is in Heaven. I've pointed out numerous times that there is not a single passage of Scripture that states people go to Heaven, that idea is simply inferred (wrongly). However, that are multiple passages that speak of man inheriting the earth fore ever. Psalm 2 says that Jesus inheritance is the utter most parts of the land. Revelation speaks of new Jerusalem descending from Heaven. Several places in the OT speak of God dwelling in Jerusalem forever and with His people. Jesus Himself said in John 14,
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if
it were not
so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am,
there ye may be also.
(Joh 14:2-3 KJV)
He said, he would come back so that they could be with Him. He didn't say you'll come to me when you die. Psalm 37 repeatedly speaks of the righteous inheriting the earth when the wicked are cutoff. I could on but I think the point is made. The Christian's hope is the eternal land inheritance promised to Abraham, just as Paul said.
11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence
to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience
inherit the promises.
13 For
when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
14 Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation
is to them an end of all strife.
17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto
the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed
it by an oath:
18 That by two immutable things, in which
it was impossible for God to lie,
we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge
to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered,
even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. (Heb 6:11-20 KJV)
