Christian, why do you believe you'll go to Heaven?

[Larry H]

Hi Butch Thanks for the response and the scriptures

Let’s consider the scriptures referenced

Psalms 37:11 And the humble do possess the land, And they have delighted themselves In the abundance of peace. YLT

Matthew 5:5 'Happy the meek — because they shall inherit the land. YLT

We have already established the kingdom of Heavenis spiritual in nature and not something physical or geographical. The following is not my words but the Lord’s and Paul’s. The NT is a commentary ofthe OT promises.

Jesus said

Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation,

nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20, 21

Paul said

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,

These verses are spiritual in nature; Jesus did come to give a plot of [land] dirt.

We are speaking of Covenantal promises and inheriting the spiritual kingdom Of God,

Note a few verse prior to the scripture in question concerning the meek

Matthew 5:3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

Here is something to consider Butch. Paul said he preached nothing but the hope of Israel.

Acts 26:22 But I have had God's help to this very day, and so I [Paul] stand here and testify to small and great alike. I am saying NOTHING beyond what the prophets and Moses said would happen—

Where in his theology does he mention or hint of a physical resurrection or a paradise earth. I can save you some leg work; he doesn’t. Where does Jesus or the Apostles mention living forever in a paradise earth. He doesn’t! Why is that if living on earth forever in paradise is the theme of Scripture? And were does the NT speak about peace on earth for all humanity in a second chance salvation plan.

Hebrews 11:13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw the mand welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and STRANGERS ON EARTH.

Hebrews 11:16 Instead, they were LONGING FOR A BETTER COUNTRY — A HEAVENLY ONE. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

Philippians 3:20 But OUR CITIZENSHIP IS IN HEAVEN. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,

BTW previous to this post I answer your question concerning spiritual life. If you missed it, it may be better to read that post first

 

[Butch5]

Hi Butch Thanks for the response and the scriptures

Let’s consider the scriptures referenced

Psalms 37:11 And the humble do possess the land, And they have delighted themselves In the abundance of peace. YLT

Matthew 5:5 'Happy the meek — because they shall inherit the land. YLT

We have already established the kingdom of Heavenis spiritual in nature and not something physical or geographical. The following is not my words but the Lord’s and Paul’s. The NT is a commentary ofthe OT promises.

Hi before time,

What exactly is "spiritual" and where have you established this. The statement about it not being here or there doesn't establish that it's spiritual. The fact that it has no boundaries means it's neither here no there. The verse you posted shows that the kingdom was on earth and not in Heaven. It was in their midst because Jesus was in their midst. I am interested in seeing how you've established that the kingdom is not physical.

 

[George Muller]

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
2Co 5:1 ¶ For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

It is hard to understand, but written in clear words.

 

[Butch5]

Jesus said

Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation,

nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20, 21

Paul said

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,

These verses are spiritual in nature; Jesus did come to give a plot of [land] dirt.

How so, please elaborate.

We are speaking of Covenantal promises and inheriting the spiritual kingdom Of God,

Note a few verse prior to the scripture in question concerning the meek

But you've not established this "spiritual" kingdom. All you've provided are inferences.

Matthew 5:3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

Yes, the kingdom of Heaven, not the kingdom in Heaven.

Here is something to consider Butch. Paul said he preached nothing but the hope of Israel.

Acts 26:22 But I have had God's help to this very day, and so I [Paul] stand here and testify to small and great alike. I am saying NOTHING beyond what the prophets and Moses said would happen—

Where in his theology does he mention or hint of a physical resurrection or a paradise earth. I can save you some leg work; he doesn’t. Where does Jesus or the Apostles mention living forever in a paradise earth. He doesn’t! Why is that if living on earth forever in paradise is the theme of Scripture? And were does the NT speak about peace on earth for all humanity in a second chance salvation plan.

You just posted that Paul said he didn't anything beyond what the prophets and Moses said should come. Read the prophets and you'll they take about a renewed earth. There is "NOTHIN" in the OT that teaches people go to Heaven when they die, nothing. If the prophets said there would be a renewed earth and Paul preached what the prophets said then Paul preached a renewed earth.

Please show me where Scripture teaches that believers go to Heaven when they die. I'm not talking about inferences, where does Scripture teach what you claim. I can show you where Scripture teaches that when a person dies, they are dead and remain that way until the resurrection. I have already shown you where Scripture plainly states that the righteous will dwell on the earth forever.

Hebrews 11:13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw the mand welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and STRANGERS ON EARTH.

Hebrews 11:16 Instead, they were LONGING FOR A BETTER COUNTRY — A HEAVENLY ONE. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

Philippians 3:20 But OUR CITIZENSHIP IS IN HEAVEN. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,

BTW previous to this post I answer your question concerning spiritual life. If you missed it, it may be better to read that post first

None of these passages support you claim. These have already been posted. Heavenly is an adjective, it gives the quality of something. Heavenly is "NOT" a location. If I said my ice cream was heavenly I don't think there's a person on this planet that would think for a minute that I meant I was transported into Heaven to eat some ice cream.

Phil 3:20 says our citizenship is in Heaven. Notice it's present tense. Are you in Heaven at this very moment? If not then this passage doesn't support your claim. It says you citizenship is in Heaven not that you are in Heaven. It also doesn't say you will go to Heaven.

This has been my point in this thread, inferences. Christians form doctrines based on inferences, not facts. As I said, there is "NOT" a single passage of Scripture that say Christians go to Heaven when they die. Christians simply misunderstand passages of Scripture and from them draw incorrect inferences.

 

[Butch5]

Christian, why do you believe you'll go to Heaven?

heaven is a promise and a Joy for the Christian.

Of all the bible verses that prove the believer Goes to heaven, Today the proof for heavenly citizenship is that the world and religion wants to take that promise and joy away from the believer in the Church age.

Just the fact that todays trend in this world is to deny a heavenly citizenship, is more proof to me that its true.

Nowhere is heaven promised to the Christian. The promise is the eternal land inheritance.

When protestants sing "Standing on the Promises", what promises are they standing on? The promises to Abraham? Their were two promises, the birthright and the Sceptre. Abraham was promised physical blessings...

Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Gen 17:2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
Gen 17:3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
Gen 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
Gen 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
Gen 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

Gen 17:15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
Gen 17:16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

And just what covenant was this?

Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

And here is where the promises became unconditional...

Gen 22:16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
Gen 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
Gen 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Why? Because Abraham obeyed God. The promises become twofold here, national blessings and in verse 18 spiritual blessings...

Gen 49:8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.
Gen 49:9 Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
Gen 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Gen 49:11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:
Gen 49:12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

See any veiled promise of the Messiah here in this prophecy? As far as the birthright, notice the blessings given to the other tribes, especially Joseph. Now back a chapter...

Gen 48:8 And Israel beheld Joseph's sons, and said, Who are these?
Gen 48:9 And Joseph said unto his father, They are my sons, whom God hath given me in this place. And he said, Bring them, I pray thee, unto me, and I will bless them.

Gen 48:15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
Gen 48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
Gen 48:17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.
Gen 48:18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
Gen 48:19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.
Gen 48:20 And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
Gen 48:21 And Israel said unto Joseph, Behold, I die: but God shall be with you, and bring you again unto the land of your fathers.
Gen 48:22 Moreover I have given to thee one portion above thy brethren, which I took out of the hand of the Amorite with my sword and with my bow.

So Joseph, Ephraim and Manasseh, received a portion more than the rest of sons. Also, in verse 16, notice that the name Israel was to be named on Ephraim and Manasseh, not on Judah. Judah is the tribe of the Jews, Israel is composed of Ephraim and Manasseh. Ever notice that quite often Judah and Israel are mentioned separately?

1Ki_12:21 And when Rehoboam was come to Jerusalem, he assembled all the house of Judah, with the tribe of Benjamin, an hundred and fourscore thousand chosen men, which were warriors, to fight against the house of Israel, to bring the kingdom again to Rehoboam the son of Solomon.

First time in the Bible the word Jew is used...

2Ki 16:1 In the seventeenth year of Pekah the son of Remaliah Ahaz the son of Jotham king of Judah began to reign.
2Ki 16:2 Twenty years old was Ahaz when he began to reign, and reigned sixteen years in Jerusalem, and did not that which was right in the sight of the LORD his God, like David his father.
2Ki 16:3 But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, yea, and made his son to pass through the fire, according to the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel.
2Ki 16:4 And he sacrificed and burnt incense in the high places, and on the hills, and under every green tree.
2Ki 16:5 Then Rezin king of Syria and Pekah son of Remaliah king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to war: and they besieged Ahaz, but could not overcome him.

Ahaz was the king of Judah.

2Ki 16:6 At that time Rezin king of Syria recovered Elath to Syria, and drave the Jews from Elath: and the Syrians came to Elath, and dwelt there unto this day.
2Ki 16:7 So Ahaz sent messengers to Tiglathpileser king of Assyria, saying, I am thy servant and thy son: come up, and save me out of the hand of the king of Syria, and out of the hand of the king of Israel, which rise up against me.

Now, notice the context, Israel is at war with the Jews.

The promises were separated, Judah received the blessing of the Sceptre, the Messiah would come through him but the majority of the promises were given to Joseph and Joseph was to carry the name of Israel. Both of these promises are tied to and fulfilled on the earth.

Hi John,

I would add the land promise to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. These have not yet inherited the Land. In order for God to fulfill His promise to them it has to be on a renewed earth.

 

[Butch5]

Hi BeforeTime,

Hi Butch

What is spirituallife?

Just like the term trinity or rapture is not used in scriptures; so it is with spiritual life. What Adam suffered in the Garden of Eden when he ate the forbidden fruit was spiritual death. I use the term spiritual dead in place of the expression “separation from Godâ€

“Adam and Eve died spiritually because they were cast out of the presence of God.†So the death I am referring to is separation, not annihilation.

Spiritual life is restoration through our Lord Jesus that gives us peace with God. This is not a worldly peace, paradise on earth, the New Testament speaks about. It is something much greater, spiritual life. In short this life is in the eyes of God. There is no complicated theology here; I believe all true Christians would agree with this effortless analogy. Do you concur!

Romans 5:1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have PEACE WITH GOD through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, PEACE and joy in the Holy Spirit,

If this is not clear there is more to the story concerning the resurrection and the after life. Did I answer the question or said to much on the soap box. J

BTW I read some of the link you posted. Did you know Butch that Irenaeus believed according to the gospels and apostolic tradition, Jesus was in his fifties when he died?

No I don't follow you here. You have given the word Spiritual a meaning that is not in it's definition.

Yes, I am aware of what Irenaeus thought on the subject. Do modern Scholars know more about Jesus' age than a man who has a direct link to the Apostles John? Let's suppose for argument sake that he was wrong, does that mean we disregard everything he said? if so, then we need to disregard every commentary and Christian work today because none of are without error. That would mean you have to disregard your own theology also. Regardless of whether he was right or wrong about Jesus' age, it doesn't negate the fact that all of those other writers said the same thing.

 

[Larry H]

Hi Butch

None ofthese passages support you claim. These have already been posted. Heavenly isan adjective,

According toWebster’s dictionary the word HEAVEN is not an adjective, it’s a noun.Check it out

heav·en noun \ˈhe-vən\

Philippians3:20 But OUR CITIZENSHIP IS IN HEAVEN. And we eagerly await a Savior fromthere, the Lord Jesus Christ,

I’ll fill in the rest soon, just got a chance to look at your stuff

 

[Larry H]

Hi Butch

Your quote to John

Hi John

I would add the land promise to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. These have not yet inherited the Land. In order for God to fulfill His promise to them it has to be on a renewed earth.

According to the scriptures the land promise to the forefather, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ARE ALREADY FULFILLED.

Nehemiah 9:7 "You are the Lord God, who chose Abram and brought him out of Ur of the Chaldeans and named him Abraham.

8 You found his heart faithful to you, and you made acovenant with him to give to his descendants the land of the Canaanites,Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Jebusites and Girga++++es. YOU HAVE KEPT YOUR PROMISE because you are righteous.

Joshua 21:43 So the Lord gave Israel all the land he had sworn togive their forefathers, and they took possession of it AND SETTLED THERE.

I’ll take your quotes a little at a time to stay one the same page.

 

[Larry H]

Hi Butch

Jesus, quoting Psalm 37 said, "the meek shall inherit theearth"

The scripture doesn’t say anything about a paradise sinless earth, let alone man never dying.

“God is the owner of the earth†and it belongs to Him and His children! Psalms 24:1

The children of God, true believers, present tense are the meek Jesus was referring to in the Matthew 5:5 Ephesians 5:5

They inherit the Spiritual Kingdom not a new car or a patch of land. It is an intimate family relationship with the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. Romans 8:28

God’s kingdom is now, and the world and everything in it belongs to His offspring.

So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours,whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future — all are yours, and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God. 1Corinthians 3:21-23

The meek trust in the Lord; true! Zephaniah 3:12

Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. Matthew5:12

 

[George Muller]

There is no life in Heaven, that's why no one has posted any Scripture saying there is.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Not only that but Paul teaches this same truth thoughout his epistle;

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 ¶ And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Col 3:1 ¶ If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

The Word of God endureth forever, it cannot be challenged, these scriptures place the believer in Christ, seated with Him in heaven. Now some cannot understand how Spiritual truth works, but they cannot contend with the clear intention of these scriptures.

Lets see, has Gods Word changed today? nope still stands!

 

[Larry H]

Hi BeforeTime,

Hi Butch

What is spirituallife?

Just like the term trinity or rapture is not used in scriptures; so it is with spiritual life. What Adam suffered in the Garden of Eden when he ate the forbidden fruit was spiritual death. I use the term spiritual dead in place of the expression “separation from God”

“Adam and Eve died spiritually because they were cast out of the presence of God.” So the death I am referring to is separation, not annihilation.

Spiritual life is restoration through our Lord Jesus that gives us peace with God. This is not a worldly peace, paradise on earth, the New Testament speaks about. It is something much greater, spiritual life. In short this life is in the eyes of God. There is no complicated theology here; I believe all true Christians would agree with this effortless analogy. Do you concur!

Romans 5:1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have PEACE WITH GOD through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, PEACE and joy in the Holy Spirit,

If this is not clear there is more to the story concerning the resurrection and the after life. Did I answer the question or said to much on the soap box. J

BTW I read some of the link you posted. Did you know Butch that Irenaeus believed according to the gospels and apostolic tradition, Jesus was in his fifties when he died?

No I don't follow you here. You have given the word Spiritual a meaning that is not in it's definition.

Yes, I am aware of what Irenaeus thought on the subject. Do modern Scholars know more about Jesus' age than a man who has a direct link to the Apostles John? Let's suppose for argument sake that he was wrong, does that mean we disregard everything he said? if so, then we need to disregard every commentary and Christian work today because none of are without error. That would mean you have to disregard your own theology also. Regardless of whether he was right or wrong about Jesus' age, it doesn't negate the fact that all of those other writers said the same thing.

Everyone knows the story of Hymenaeus and Philetus. Who had, like gangrene convinced some in the faith the resurrection had already taken place.

2 Timothy 2:17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene.Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus,

18 who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.

If the early Christians believed in a bodily resurrection of corpse out of their graves, how come some of them lost their faith?

In other words how did Hymenaeus and Philetus convince anyone if the early Christians believed in a physical resurrection? Possible proof the believers considered the resurrection was spiritual in nature.

 

[Larry H]

Hi before time,

What exactly is "spiritual" and where have you established this. The statement about it not being here or there doesn't establish that it' sspiritual. The fact that it has no boundaries means it's neither here no there.The verse you posted shows that the kingdom was on earth and not in Heaven. It was in their midst because Jesus was in their midst. I am interested in seeinghow you've established that the kingdom is not physical.

spir·it·u·al spiriCHo͞oəl

Adjective Of, relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.

Yes I did post the kingdom is on earth, and I believe Christ is ruling now. However, it may be interesting to see first what the kingdom is not before explaining in more detail how it is ruling on earth. Nevertheless it is spiritual in nature. Many have a hard time with that because there is evil in the world.

“It is not a government as we know it, a ruling class of men ruling over territory on earth under God. Some dictionaries say it is a government purporting to be of God, and ruling through a high hierarchy of a priest.

There is a commentator named Lensky who gives us sought of a good description of the kingdom, he says, "God's kingdom must not be taken in the sense of an earthly kingdom, thinking of land and people. The kingdom of the heavens centers in the king Jesus Christ, and in the power of his grace, might and glories that go out from him. Where he is - there the kingdom is, because there he exercises his grace, and power" Ed Dunlap

Luke 17:20 And being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of Godcometh, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21 neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, there! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.[ in your midst.]

If it was physical with observation everyone would believe.

To be continued

 

[John 8:32]

Nowhere is heaven promised to the Christian. The promise is the eternal land inheritance.

When protestants sing "Standing on the Promises", what promises are they standing on? The promises to Abraham? Their were two promises, the birthright and the Sceptre. Abraham was promised physical blessings...

Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Gen 17:2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
Gen 17:3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
Gen 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
Gen 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
Gen 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

Gen 17:15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
Gen 17:16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

And just what covenant was this?

Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

And here is where the promises became unconditional...

Gen 22:16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
Gen 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
Gen 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Why? Because Abraham obeyed God. The promises become twofold here, national blessings and in verse 18 spiritual blessings...

Gen 49:8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.
Gen 49:9 Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
Gen 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Gen 49:11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:
Gen 49:12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

See any veiled promise of the Messiah here in this prophecy? As far as the birthright, notice the blessings given to the other tribes, especially Joseph. Now back a chapter...

Gen 48:8 And Israel beheld Joseph's sons, and said, Who are these?
Gen 48:9 And Joseph said unto his father, They are my sons, whom God hath given me in this place. And he said, Bring them, I pray thee, unto me, and I will bless them.

Gen 48:15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
Gen 48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
Gen 48:17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.
Gen 48:18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
Gen 48:19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.
Gen 48:20 And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
Gen 48:21 And Israel said unto Joseph, Behold, I die: but God shall be with you, and bring you again unto the land of your fathers.
Gen 48:22 Moreover I have given to thee one portion above thy brethren, which I took out of the hand of the Amorite with my sword and with my bow.

So Joseph, Ephraim and Manasseh, received a portion more than the rest of sons. Also, in verse 16, notice that the name Israel was to be named on Ephraim and Manasseh, not on Judah. Judah is the tribe of the Jews, Israel is composed of Ephraim and Manasseh. Ever notice that quite often Judah and Israel are mentioned separately?

1Ki_12:21 And when Rehoboam was come to Jerusalem, he assembled all the house of Judah, with the tribe of Benjamin, an hundred and fourscore thousand chosen men, which were warriors, to fight against the house of Israel, to bring the kingdom again to Rehoboam the son of Solomon.

First time in the Bible the word Jew is used...

2Ki 16:1 In the seventeenth year of Pekah the son of Remaliah Ahaz the son of Jotham king of Judah began to reign.
2Ki 16:2 Twenty years old was Ahaz when he began to reign, and reigned sixteen years in Jerusalem, and did not that which was right in the sight of the LORD his God, like David his father.
2Ki 16:3 But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, yea, and made his son to pass through the fire, according to the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel.
2Ki 16:4 And he sacrificed and burnt incense in the high places, and on the hills, and under every green tree.
2Ki 16:5 Then Rezin king of Syria and Pekah son of Remaliah king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to war: and they besieged Ahaz, but could not overcome him.

Ahaz was the king of Judah.

2Ki 16:6 At that time Rezin king of Syria recovered Elath to Syria, and drave the Jews from Elath: and the Syrians came to Elath, and dwelt there unto this day.
2Ki 16:7 So Ahaz sent messengers to Tiglathpileser king of Assyria, saying, I am thy servant and thy son: come up, and save me out of the hand of the king of Syria, and out of the hand of the king of Israel, which rise up against me.

Now, notice the context, Israel is at war with the Jews.

The promises were separated, Judah received the blessing of the Sceptre, the Messiah would come through him but the majority of the promises were given to Joseph and Joseph was to carry the name of Israel. Both of these promises are tied to and fulfilled on the earth.

Hi John,

I would add the land promise to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. These have not yet inherited the Land. In order for God to fulfill His promise to them it has to be on a renewed earth.

Also, for them to receive the promise of inheriting the land forever, they must be alive forever. A resurrection to eternal life.

 

[Larry H]

Nowhere is heaven promised to the Christian. The promise is the eternal land inheritance.

When protestants sing "Standing on the Promises", what promises are they standing on? The promises to Abraham? Their were two promises, the birthright and the Sceptre. Abraham was promised physical blessings...

Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Gen 17:2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
Gen 17:3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
Gen 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
Gen 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
Gen 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

Gen 17:15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
Gen 17:16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

And just what covenant was this?

Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

And here is where the promises became unconditional...

Gen 22:16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
Gen 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
Gen 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Why? Because Abraham obeyed God. The promises become twofold here, national blessings and in verse 18 spiritual blessings...

Gen 49:8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.
Gen 49:9 Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
Gen 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Gen 49:11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:
Gen 49:12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

See any veiled promise of the Messiah here in this prophecy? As far as the birthright, notice the blessings given to the other tribes, especially Joseph. Now back a chapter...

Gen 48:8 And Israel beheld Joseph's sons, and said, Who are these?
Gen 48:9 And Joseph said unto his father, They are my sons, whom God hath given me in this place. And he said, Bring them, I pray thee, unto me, and I will bless them.

Gen 48:15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
Gen 48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
Gen 48:17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.
Gen 48:18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
Gen 48:19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.
Gen 48:20 And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
Gen 48:21 And Israel said unto Joseph, Behold, I die: but God shall be with you, and bring you again unto the land of your fathers.
Gen 48:22 Moreover I have given to thee one portion above thy brethren, which I took out of the hand of the Amorite with my sword and with my bow.

So Joseph, Ephraim and Manasseh, received a portion more than the rest of sons. Also, in verse 16, notice that the name Israel was to be named on Ephraim and Manasseh, not on Judah. Judah is the tribe of the Jews, Israel is composed of Ephraim and Manasseh. Ever notice that quite often Judah and Israel are mentioned separately?

1Ki_12:21 And when Rehoboam was come to Jerusalem, he assembled all the house of Judah, with the tribe of Benjamin, an hundred and fourscore thousand chosen men, which were warriors, to fight against the house of Israel, to bring the kingdom again to Rehoboam the son of Solomon.

First time in the Bible the word Jew is used...

2Ki 16:1 In the seventeenth year of Pekah the son of Remaliah Ahaz the son of Jotham king of Judah began to reign.
2Ki 16:2 Twenty years old was Ahaz when he began to reign, and reigned sixteen years in Jerusalem, and did not that which was right in the sight of the LORD his God, like David his father.
2Ki 16:3 But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, yea, and made his son to pass through the fire, according to the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel.
2Ki 16:4 And he sacrificed and burnt incense in the high places, and on the hills, and under every green tree.
2Ki 16:5 Then Rezin king of Syria and Pekah son of Remaliah king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to war: and they besieged Ahaz, but could not overcome him.

Ahaz was the king of Judah.

2Ki 16:6 At that time Rezin king of Syria recovered Elath to Syria, and drave the Jews from Elath: and the Syrians came to Elath, and dwelt there unto this day.
2Ki 16:7 So Ahaz sent messengers to Tiglathpileser king of Assyria, saying, I am thy servant and thy son: come up, and save me out of the hand of the king of Syria, and out of the hand of the king of Israel, which rise up against me.

Now, notice the context, Israel is at war with the Jews.

The promises were separated, Judah received the blessing of the Sceptre, the Messiah would come through him but the majority of the promises were given to Joseph and Joseph was to carry the name of Israel. Both of these promises are tied to and fulfilled on the earth.

I would add the land promise to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. These have not yet inherited the Land. In order for God to fulfill His promise to them it has to be on a renewed earth.

Also, for them to receive the promise of inheriting the land forever, they must be alive forever. A resurrection to eternal life.

Not so fast there is more to the story in the bible. In other word the quote is not genuine.

According to the scriptures the land promise to the forefather,
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ARE ALREADY FULFILLED.

Nehemiah 9:7 "You are the Lord God, who chose Abram and brought him out of Ur of the Chaldeans and named him Abraham.

8 You found his heart faithful to you, and you made acovenant with him to give to his descendants the land of the Canaanites,Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Jebusites and Girga++++es. YOU HAVE KEPT YOUR PROMISE because you are righteous.

Joshua 21:43 So the Lord gave Israel all the land he had sworn togive their forefathers, and they took possession of it AND SETTLED THERE

 

[theword]

We already exist in the heavenly kingdom as energy.

 

[Larry H]

@Danus You missed the question completely. That's ok, but the question was when the Bible says the meek shall inherit the earth. Are they talking about us inheriting this old earth as we live our lives now or inherit the new earth after judgment day in the afterlife? Blessings.

I believe biblically it's referring to the "new" heaven & earth.

If you are of Christ, and if I told you the world belonged to you now, the meek, would that surprise you? Note the following in the present tense.

1 Corinthians 3:21 So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours,

22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future — all are yours,

23 and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.

This is speaking in God's eye which are the only ones that count.

I'm not sure to what context you are referring in connecting 1 Corinthian 3:21 to the beatitude of the meek inheriting the earth. Paul and Jesus are not referring to the same Idea exactly within the context of those to recorded verses. Paul's talking about the present, Christ it talking about something more specific.

What makes the beatitude more appropriate to the OP is that it's referring to the kingdom of heaven. Paul is talking about the church and its leadership heaven. Paul is talking about the church and its leadership.

I think the meek will inherit the earth is appropriate with Paul’s theology. Do we consider Christians meek? If the answer is yes I believe it fits just fine. One does not have to read into the text and say those meek Jesus was referring to are future true believers. Barnes kind of gives a good interpretation of 1 Corinthians3:22

[Or the world] This word is doubtless used, in its common signification, to denote the things which God has made; the universe, the things which pertain to this life. And the meaning ofthe apostle probably is, that all things pertaining to this world which God has made-all the events which are occurring in his providence were so far THEIRS,that they would contribute to their advantage, and their enjoyment. This general idea may be thus expressed: Barnes

There is only one scripture in the NT describing the kingdom, and it has nothing to do with physicality.

Romans 14:17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but ofrighteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,

compare

phys·i·cal
adj. Of or relating to the body as distinguished from the mind or spirit.

Matthew 5:6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.

Matthew 5:5 Jesus Christpoints out that abundance of spiritual good, which was provided for men in the Gospel. Adam Clarke's Commentary

A child of God doesn’t have to go into a complicated theology to understand these simple truths. The question is are we now living in the promise Gospel land, or a one a patch of dirt.

Colossians 3:2 Set your mind son things above, not on earthly things.

3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

 

[Danus]

If you are of Christ, and if I told you the world belonged to you now, the meek, would that surprise you? Note the following in the present tense.

1 Corinthians 3:21 So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours,

22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future — all are yours,

23 and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.

This is speaking in God's eye which are the only ones that count.

I'm not sure to what context you are referring in connecting 1 Corinthian 3:21 to the beatitude of the meek inheriting the earth. Paul and Jesus are not referring to the same Idea exactly within the context of those to recorded verses. Paul's talking about the present, Christ it talking about something more specific.

What makes the beatitude more appropriate to the OP is that it's referring to the kingdom of heaven. Paul is talking about the church and its leadership heaven. Paul is talking about the church and its leadership.

I think the meek will inherit the earth is appropriate with Paul’s theology. Do we consider Christians meek? If the answer is yes I believe it fits just fine. One does not have to read into the text and say those meek Jesus was referring to are future true believers. Barnes kind of gives a good interpretation of 1 Corinthians3:22

[Or the world] This word is doubtless used, in its common signification, to denote the things which God has made; the universe, the things which pertain to this life. And the meaning ofthe apostle probably is, that all things pertaining to this world which God has made-all the events which are occurring in his providence were so far THEIRS,that they would contribute to their advantage, and their enjoyment. This general idea may be thus expressed: Barnes

There is only one scripture in the NT describing the kingdom, and it has nothing to do with physicality.

Romans 14:17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but ofrighteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,

compare

phys·i·cal
adj. Of or relating to the body as distinguished from the mind or spirit.

Matthew 5:6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.

Matthew 5:5 Jesus Christpoints out that abundance of spiritual good, which was provided for men in the Gospel. Adam Clarke's Commentary

A child of God doesn’t have to go into a complicated theology to understand these simple truths. The question is are we now living in the promise Gospel land, or a one a patch of dirt.

Colossians 3:2 Set your mind son things above, not on earthly things.

3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

Hello Before Time.

I'm not sure we're all talking, or addressing the same thing.

My original post is addressing the context of the beatitudes, specifically what Jesus was referring to in using the term "meek", and what that means in relation to inheriting the earth.

You interjected another verse, 1 Corinthians 3:21, which is a fine verse, but is not a verse speaking on the beatitudes, or addressing the meek specifically. It's a verse recording Paul speaking on church leadership, but as all scripture is connected in some way I would relent that is somewhat.

However, this thread is not one I'd involve myself with simply because I've yet to explore or define what the argument is. The Op ask; "Christian, why do you believe you go to Heaven?" On the surface it might be an argument for soul sleep, I've no idea. Put simply, I believe the bible clearly explains that believers in Christ, when they pass away are present with the Lord, and are consciously aware of that presents in some way. Furthermore, there will be a time to come when all will be united with their resurrected bodies, and heaven and earth will be one.

Is this your understanding as well? or do you believe something else?

 

[Larry H]

If you are of Christ, and if I told you the world belonged to you now, the meek, would that surprise you? Note the following in the present tense.

1 Corinthians 3:21 So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours,

22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future — all are yours,

23 and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.

This is speaking in God's eye which are the only ones that count.

I'm not sure to what context you are referring in connecting 1 Corinthian 3:21 to the beatitude of the meek inheriting the earth. Paul and Jesus are not referring to the same Idea exactly within the context of those to recorded verses. Paul's talking about the present, Christ it talking about something more specific.

What makes the beatitude more appropriate to the OP is that it's referring to the kingdom of heaven. Paul is talking about the church and its leadership heaven. Paul is talking about the church and its leadership.

I think the meek will inherit the earth is appropriate with Paul’s theology. Do we consider Christians meek? If the answer is yes I believe it fits just fine. One does not have to read into the text and say those meek Jesus was referring to are future true believers. Barnes kind of gives a good interpretation of 1 Corinthians3:22

[Or the world] This word is doubtless used, in its common signification, to denote the things which God has made; the universe, the things which pertain to this life. And the meaning ofthe apostle probably is, that all things pertaining to this world which God has made-all the events which are occurring in his providence were so far THEIRS,that they would contribute to their advantage, and their enjoyment. This general idea may be thus expressed: Barnes

There is only one scripture in the NT describing the kingdom, and it has nothing to do with physicality.

Romans 14:17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but ofrighteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,

compare

phys·i·cal
adj. Of or relating to the body as distinguished from the mind or spirit.

Matthew 5:6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.

Matthew 5:5 Jesus Christpoints out that abundance of spiritual good, which was provided for men in the Gospel. Adam Clarke's Commentary

A child of God doesn’t have to go into a complicated theology to understand these simple truths. The question is are we now living in the promise Gospel land, or a one a patch of dirt.

Colossians 3:2 Set your mind son things above, not on earthly things.

3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

Hello Before Time.

I'm not sure we're all talking, or addressing the same thing.

My original post is addressing the context of the beatitudes, specifically what Jesus was referring to in using the term "meek", and what that means in relation to inheriting the earth.

You interjected another verse, 1 Corinthians 3:21, which is a fine verse, but is not a verse speaking on the beatitudes, or addressing the meek specifically. It's a verse recording Paul speaking on church leadership, but as all scripture is connected in some way I would relent that is somewhat.

However, this thread is not one I'd involve myself with simply because I've yet to explore or define what the argument is. The Op ask; "Christian, why do you believe you go to Heaven?" On the surface it might be an argument for soul sleep, I've no idea. Put simply, I believe the bible clearly explains that believers in Christ, when they pass away are present with the Lord, and are consciously aware of that presents in some way. Furthermore, there will be a time to come when all will be united with their resurrected bodies, and heaven and earth will be one.

Is this your understanding as well? or do you believe something else?

Hi Danus

I believe something else to some degree Danus; however I am of the same mind when you said, “that believers in Christ, when they pass away are present with the Lord.â€

It would seem logical they are consciously aware, just as they are now excluding the physical body. I see this life as a preparation, a bus stop to the next. However through my research the buck stops there for the meek, humble. They live in God's family forever in heaven.. The purpose he planned before time began. Romans 8:28-30

Ok, what does 1 Corinthians 3:21 have to do with Matthew5:5. Like I said this life is a preparation to the next. “And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been calleda ccording to his purposeâ€. Romans 8:28

The meek children of God have inherited everything they need to keep their this relationship with the Father and His Son Jesus Christ intact.What can be greater than that, certainly not a patch of dirt? Jesus did not suffer and die to give the true believer some land! This is where 1 Corinthians3:21 comes in! This is where trials and suffering comes in! Whether we like it or not they provide Christian attribute. Many scripture prove it!

The general picture is that Jesus or the Apostles never mentioned a sinless paradise earth I think it’s a speculative theory arriving from a wooden literalism of Revelation 21:1-4. The bible is restoration not of earth to heaven, but man to God. This is already accomplished if one has faith Christ brought this about.Romans 5:1

 

[Butch5]

Hi Butch

None ofthese passages support you claim. These have already been posted. Heavenly isan adjective,

According toWebster’s dictionary the word HEAVEN is not an adjective, it’s a noun.Check it out

heav·en noun \ˈhe-vən\

Philippians3:20 But OUR CITIZENSHIP IS IN HEAVEN. And we eagerly await a Savior fromthere, the Lord Jesus Christ,

I’ll fill in the rest soon, just got a chance to look at your stuff

Hi before time,

I said heavenly is an adjective, not Heaven. The passage you quoted says our citizenship is in Heaven, not we are in Heaven.

 

[Butch5]

Hi Butch

Your quote to John

Hi John

I would add the land promise to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. These have not yet inherited the Land. In order for God to fulfill His promise to them it has to be on a renewed earth.

According to the scriptures the land promise to the forefather, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ARE ALREADY FULFILLED.

Nehemiah 9:7 "You are the Lord God, who chose Abram and brought him out of Ur of the Chaldeans and named him Abraham.

8 You found his heart faithful to you, and you made acovenant with him to give to his descendants the land of the Canaanites,Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Jebusites and Girga++++es. YOU HAVE KEPT YOUR PROMISE because you are righteous.

Joshua 21:43 So the Lord gave Israel all the land he had sworn togive their forefathers, and they took possession of it AND SETTLED THERE.

I’ll take your quotes a little at a time to stay one the same page.

That is only part of the promise. The land was promised to Abraham personally. I was also promised to Isaac and Jacob. None of them ever received the land. Their offspring did but they tenmselves did not. Stephen states plainly that Abraham never received that land.

2 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,
3 And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.
4 Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell.
5 And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.
(Act 7:2-5 KJV)

The land was promised to Abraham himself.

14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
17 Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee. (Gen 13:14-17 KJV)

As Stephen said Abraham never received it. The only way he can receive it is through the resurrection.