Christian Worship "Rockstars"

[DarkWalker]

I grew up on Steven Curtis Chapman, Oldies, and the Baptist Hymnal. It wasn't until I reached my teens that I found bands like DC Talk or Jars of Clay, and it wasn't until my twenties that I discovered bands like Skillet. I discovered bands like Theocracy in my late twenties.

My introduction to what I call Cruddy Christian Music (CCM, and yes, I know what it's supposed to stand for) was with Sonicflood and that horrendous song, "In the Secret" or "I Want to Know You (More)." I am not a fan of songs that repeat themselves ad nauseum, regardless of the genre, but when it's in Christian music, I find that to be a waste of time and talent.

Unfortunately, some of the biggest names in Christian music are guilty of bad theology, wasted lyrics, poor musical talent, and other errors. You will find all of these things in secular music as well (Seether is one such example, as is Metallica). What bothers me about people like Chris Tomlin, the Paul Coleman Trio, and others is they are more than just artists. They are supposed to be representative of a faith.

Think of it this way: James Hetfield of Metallica gets on stage, yells, "God wants you to demand what you want of Him, because He wants to give it to you!" People will laugh, people will scoff ('cause it's a secular band), but people will also listen to what he has to say. I guarantee that if Hetfield says he eats Lucky Charms, sales will go up for Lucky Charms.

The same would happen if Michael Tait of the Newsboys said something. Back when Peter Furler was the frontman for the Newsboys, I had to stop listening to them. They got into some horrid, horrid theology that made God into a cosmic bellboy from whom we could demand what we wanted, and because He loves us, He has to comply.

However, all of this pales in comparison to the king of overhyped talent and bad theology. The one, the original, and dear God could he please be the only...Chris Tomlin.

You do not get to steal a song written by John Newton, slap your own verse in it, and call it your song that you can profit from ("Amazing Grace"). You should not get to write songs using the same dead-as-a-dead-horse-hackneyed metaphors and analogies. You should not be able to rip off album concepts that a billion people have ripped off before you and get to hold onto your self-respect. What's sick and wrong to me is Tomlin and others like him are filling up stadiums based on bad theology, tired lyrics, (barely) catchy tunes, and emotional hype.

As I said, yes, you will find this all in secular music, but the difference is that people will look to Tomlin's songs for spiritual guidance. It's like picking up a toothpick to defend yourself and deluding yourself into thinking it's a lance.

(Excerpt from Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes)

Just then they came in sight of thirty or forty windmills that rise from that plain. And no sooner did Don Quixote see them that he said to his squire, "Fortune is guiding our affairs better than we ourselves could have wished. Do you see over yonder, friend Sancho, thirty or forty hulking giants? I intend to do battle with them and slay them. With their spoils we shall begin to be rich for this is a righteous war and the removal of so foul a brood from off the face of the earth is a service God will bless."

"What giants?" asked Sancho Panza.

"Those you see over there," replied his master, "with their long arms. Some of them have arms well nigh two leagues in length."

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills. Those things that seem to be their arms are sails which, when they are whirled around by the wind, turn the millstone."

 

[Knotical]

Skillet, I have found, is a prime example of a band with songs with both bad theology and wasted lyrics. Which is sad really, as it is one of the few bands I know of with a female drummer, who also sings. Great talent there, but the voice of the lead singer kind of grates on me.

 

[DarkWalker]

Skillet, I have found, is a prime example of a band with songs with both bad theology and wasted lyrics. Which is sad really, as it is one of the few bands I know of with a female drummer, who also sings. Great talent there, but the voice of the lead singer kind of grates on me.

I love Skillet's sound (including the vocalist), but I'm afraid I have to agree about the theology. I like a few of their songs because I can relate, but a lot of their songs aren't solid. Great people, from when I talked to them at Heavenfest a few years ago, but the theology is something I do take exception with.

 

[Knotical]

I like their sound too, I just can't get past the voice of the lead singer.

I do like the current iteration of the Newsboys, and really enjoy MercyMe. Have you checked out there "CoverTunes Grab Bag" on Youtube? A must see.

 

[DarkWalker]

I like their sound too, I just can't get past the voice of the lead singer.

I do like the current iteration of the Newsboys, and really enjoy MercyMe. Have you checked out there "CoverTunes Grab Bag" on Youtube? A must see.

I like Tait better than Furler, but I'm still shy about embracing the Newsboys wholly. I did see the Grab Bag, and it's decently entertaining. I've never been overly impressed with MercyMe's talent, but their theology is solid, which gives them a gold star in my book. I wouldn't care if everyone sang like Scuttle from The Little Mermaid if their theology was solid. Unfortunately, CCM is plagued by "positive and encouraging" music that waters down the theology. Meanwhile, if Todd Agnew had to edit the word "sluts" out of "My Jesus" to get any airtime, and songs about the facts of abortion, racism, or abuse within the Church will never seen the light of day as far as Christian radio is concerned.

 

[Edward]

I like Skillet, and think that the way they work in Jens singing (the drummer) was almost genius and she boosted the singing overall. I haven't really noticed any bad theology in their songs, but admittedly, listen to about 4 or 5 of their songs more than others and largely leave the rest alone, except when I'm really bored or tired of those few songs.

What I have noticed about them, is that, they flash that el-diablo sign a lot, like other bands do so much. Now I think it is that el-diablo sign at least. I know that the sign language for "I love you" is very very similar to the el-diablo sign, and I find it hard to tell which sign they are actually flashing.

Bush is flashing the El-Diablo sign, and to the right is the "I love you" sign, in sign language. ??
His thumb seems to be in instead of out is the difference.

 

[DarkWalker]

I like Skillet, and think that the way they work in Jens singing (the drummer) was almost genius and she boosted the singing overall. I haven't really noticed any bad theology in their songs, but admittedly, listen to about 4 or 5 of their songs more than others and largely leave the rest alone, except when I'm really bored or tired of those few songs.

What I have noticed about them, is that, they flash that el-diablo sign a lot, like other bands do so much. Now I think it is that el-diablo sign at least. I know that the sign language for "I love you" is very very similar to the el-diablo sign, and I find it hard to tell which sign they are actually flashing.

The so-called "Devil's Horns" were started by Dio and his fans, I believe. Many Christian rockers, having grown up around the symbol, use it. Where some use it as a sign of devotion to the Devil, many use it simply to say, "this rocks." That having been said, I know some Christians who use the ASL symbol for "I love you" in place of the Devil's Horns, which is fine. It's a personal preference. Most of our symbolism could be linked to something evil, but it's what we use it for that matters. The middle finger, for instance, started out as a non-sexual gesture of defiance during wartime ("I've still got my trigger finger," essentially). Now it's become a sexual suggestion.

 

[Knotical]

What would be truly epic is if someone did a really good rock rendition of the Nicene Creed. Newsboys' "We Believe" is the only one that I know of that comes close.

 

[evenifigoalone]

In Skillet's case, I'd say they're not so much a Christian band as they are a band made up of Christians that play on the secular scene and sometimes produce songs that are relevant to faith and issues Christians face. That describes a lot of the bands I listen to, actually.

 

[Knotical]

In Skillet's case, I'd say they're not so much a Christian band as they are a band made up of Christians that play on the secular scene and sometimes produce songs that are relevant to faith and issues Christians face. That describes a lot of the bands I listen to, actually.

A band that I have recently come across seems to be this way as well. Has anyone heard anything by Bastille? Their big hit that is on secular radio right now is "Pompeii," which has a rather odd video, but then what video isn't even a little odd.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Haven't heard of that one.

I like Newsboys okay, though I don't listen to the typical Christian radio music all that much (I do like some of it). (No specific reason, mostly to do with genres.) Though someone pointed out that their song from recent years, "God's Not Dead", was originally by the David Crowder Band. They even released an album with that song as the title. I assume they had permission? The David Crowder Band broke up, but to my understanding they more recently came back together as Crowder.

 

[DarkWalker]

Crowder is the mononym David Crowder has chosen as a solo act (though I forget if any of his former band mates are backing him up). He was one I appreciated "back in the day," because he didn't revert to the old formulas of, "God's ____ is like a ____, praise Him, praise Him, ooh yeah." One thing I love about Christian metal is, well, this:

Chris Tomlin - Waterfall

Oh God, my God I seek You
I wanna move when You move
You're more than I could long for
I thirst for You

You're an ocean to my soul
To my soul

Your love is like a waterfall, waterfall
Running wild and free
You hear my heart when I call, when I call
Deep calls, too deep
Your love is like a waterfall, waterfall
Raining down on me

Waterfall, waterfall

Oh God, my God I seek You
In this dry and desert land
You lead me to streams of mercy
Once again

You're an ocean to my soul
To my soul

Your love is like a waterfall, waterfall
Running wild and free
You hear my heart when I call, when I call
Deep calls, too deep
Your love is like a waterfall, waterfall
Raining down on me

Waterfall, waterfall

It's coming like a flood
I'm dancing in the rain
Everything I've done
Is covered in rivers of grace, amazing

It's coming like a flood
I'm dancing in the rain
I lift up my hands
Your love never changes, amazing

Your love is like a waterfall, waterfall
Running wild and free
You hear my heart when I call, when I call
Deep calls, too deep
Your love is like a waterfall, waterfall
Raining down on me

Waterfall, waterfall

Theocracy - Hide in the Fairytale

A child in sweet duplicity
For innocence? Or slavery to nature
And the bents that haunt him straight out of the womb?
He doesn’t have to learn the things unseemly that his instinct brings
To carry like a burden from the cradle to the tomb
You’ll never have to teach him how to lie
If we are born in innocence, well, don’t you wonder why?
For selfishness already dwells inside
The birthright of Adam, the curse of the old man

Day and night
Jekyll and Hyde in the fairytale
This is much more frightening
Darkness and light
Feed the new man and tear the veil
See the old man dying

Behold the loving family man
Who tries to do the best he can
And loves his wife and children even more than his own life
But just like that, a wandering eye leads to a suffocating lie
And selfishness and deep betrayal cuts them like a knife
If mankind doesn’t have a sinful drive
Then tell me why he’d wreck his life to get some on the side?
The warring of two natures deep inside
Starving the new keeps the old man alive

Soulsickness nailed to a cross

Humankind in innocence, a lie so thinly veiled
Man born without Soulsickness: this is the fairytale
Hide in the fairytale

In Tomlin's song, we learn about Tomlin's desire to be like God because God's love is like a waterfall.

In Theocracy's song, we learn about the nature of sin, the nature of mankind, and the dangers of sin, all with practical examples, biblical theology, and flourishes of poetic wordplay.

I'd rather eat theological meat than have to nibble on the simple, pretty bone.

 

[Knotical]

Crowder is the mononym David Crowder has chosen as a solo act (though I forget if any of his former band mates are backing him up). He was one I appreciated "back in the day," because he didn't revert to the old formulas of, "God's ____ is like a ____, praise Him, praise Him, ooh yeah." One thing I love about Christian metal is, well, this:





In Tomlin's song, we learn about Tomlin's desire to be like God because God's love is like a waterfall.

In Theocracy's song, we learn about the nature of sin, the nature of mankind, and the dangers of sin, all with practical examples, biblical theology, and flourishes of poetic wordplay.

I'd rather eat theological meat than have to nibble on the simple, pretty bone.

You sound like a poet. Ever thought of writing your own songs?

 

[jasonc]

good, somebody is seeing what I have been seeing. yes I listen to skillet but they aren't along with others the most theological sound. its about $$$ most of the time. to many times Christian want to imitate the world we have Christian talent searches for the next ccm hit. the dove award.

 

[DarkWalker]

You sound like a poet. Ever thought of writing your own songs?

I don't write songs, but I do write poetry.

 

[turnorburn]

Say DarkWalker what are "dead-as-a-dead-horse-hackneyed metaphors and analogies"

Thanks.

tob

 

[DarkWalker]

Say DarkWalker what are "dead-as-a-dead-horse-hackneyed metaphors and analogies"

Thanks.

tob

They usually come in the form of: "God's _____ is like _____." There are usually comparisons to water or, occasionally, fire. Saying that freedom in Christ makes you feel like you could fly. There are also the non-sensible metaphors: "The mercy of God's grace," "the love of God's power," and so on. These things sound really catchy and good, but in the long run, no one takes the time to understand what they're singing. There's also imagery. One of my favorite songs used to be David Crowder Band's "Here is Our King," which says:

From wherever spring arrives to heal the ground
From wherever searching comes
(The look itself a trace of what we're looking for)
So be quiet now...and wait
The ocean is growing
The tide is coming in
Here it is...

To which my response is:

"The look itself a trace of what we're looking for?"

It sounds snazzy, but do people know what it means? Do people stop to consider what it means for themselves? I'm sure some do. I'm sure some can pull meaning out of just about anything. I've done that. However, the majority--from what I've seen--do not. I have quoted lines from popular Christian songs in conversation, and people look at me like I'm stupid. "Man, that doesn't even mean anything." "But that's what you said that song represented when we talked about it two weeks ago." "But--that--I did?" "Yep." I wasn't doing it to "one up" anyone, but trying to prove the point that many of our favorite popular artists are lazy, and when you mix lazy with theology, that's dangerous.

 

[turnorburn]

Then you consider Gods grace and freedom in Christ non-sensible metaphors?

tob

 

[DarkWalker]

Then you consider Gods grace and freedom in Christ non-sensible metaphors?

tob

I didn't say that.

I consider the same overly used metaphors to be bad music. We serve an infinite God, and different people see grace, freedom in Christ, and other facets of Christian life in different ways. Therefore, there should be more than a handful of slightly reworded comparisons we can make. I consider Christian music to be often tired, non-sensible (at times), and a poor representation of the talent God has given. As a poet, if I were to use the same metaphors over and over again, people would grow tired of my poetry, and it would be considered a poor use of the gift God has given me.

 

[jasonc]

okay you haven't read some of the psalms or revalation where that really doesn't make sense.