Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Christian Zionism
- Thread starter P31Woman
- Start date
farouk
Member
This is what the Bible seems to say about it:
............
(Unless someone can correct me from Scripture, anyway.)
jasoncran
Member
well being that im a jew, its an allusion to the hatred of my ethnicity. replace Zionism with jew and you get the same thing. the Zionists are the bane of the world, evil international bankers etc yada yada.
Zionism as in the idea of that isreal was to be reoccupied by Jews did indeed influence Christianity, but that doesn't mean that the jews of today that believe in the eretz isreal agree with Christianity. Just glad that we agree with them.
Zionism as in the idea of that isreal was to be reoccupied by Jews did indeed influence Christianity, but that doesn't mean that the jews of today that believe in the eretz isreal agree with Christianity. Just glad that we agree with them.
Agape
Member
Zionism, simply a political movement at its inception, has today become more of an ideology than anything else. Zionism is an international movement for the return of the Jewish people to Zion, the land of Israel, while exercising the right to retain authority of government over the state of Israel, which was promised to them in the Hebrew Scriptures. The roots for Zionism lie in Genesis chapters 12 and 15, in which God makes a covenant with Abraham promising him that his descendants would inherit the land between Egypt and the Euphrates River.
Due to the fact that Zionism was begun as a politically motivated movement, there exists among secular Gentiles and non-religious Jews a line of thought stating that the religious background of the Jewish people had nothing to do with Zionism. It is argued that Zionism was instead a reaction of the Jewish people to worldwide persecution during World Wars I and II. No nation would take them in, so they were forced to create their own nation, the land of their ancestry being the most opportune place.
Regardless, the Zionist movement, begun in the late 1890s, found fulfillment in 1948 when Israel was officially recognized as a state and granted sovereignty as a nation within Palestine by the United Nations. This is when, technically, the political Zionist movement ended and the ideology of Zionism began, and as such, has become a much-debated topic. Some would say that Zionism has become a motivation for racism, or a reaction against anti-Semitism. Others believe that Zionism as it currently exists is merely Jewish patriotism.
Associated with Jewish Zionism is Christian Zionism. Christian Zionism is simply Gentile support of Jewish Zionism as based on the promises to Israel found in the Bible, passages such as Jeremiah 32 and Ezekiel 34. Christian Zionists are primarily evangelical and give support in any way possible to the Jewish state of Israel. The return of the Jews to the Promised Land is the fulfillment of prophecy and is seen, especially by dispensationalists, as a sign that the world has entered the end times.
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Zionism-Christian.html#ixzz2MWXiY6V1
Thanks folks. I know the only time I hear that type of language it's as if we are from differant planets. I know Rev. Wright, Fred Phelps and Louis Farrahkan (and some others in that boat) love to use those terms yet in Church we sing about the "beatiful city of Zion, We are marching onward to Zion the beautiful city of God"
You have helped clear that one up!
You have helped clear that one up!
Skrumpelnubb
Member
Anyone who believes that the proclamation of the state of Israel 1948 was a fulfillment of biblical prophecies are a christian zionist. And that makes up a big part of christianity.
Ryan
Member
Was it not prophecied?
Ryan
Member
Deuteronomy 29:27 Therefore, the anger of the Lord burned against that land, to bring upon it every curse which is written in this book; 28 and the Lord uprooted them from their land in anger and in fury and in great wrath, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.’
Deuteronomy 30:1-5 So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind in all nations where the Lord your God has banished you, 2 and you return to the Lord your God and obey Him with all your heart and soul according to all that I command you today, you and your sons, 3 then the Lord your God will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you. 4 If your outcasts are at the ends of the earth, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you back. 5 The Lord your God will bring you into the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it; and He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers.
This hasn't even left Deuteronomy, and God is already speaking about restoring Israel. How could they not be secular if he is talking about circumcising their hearts once more.
Deuteronomy 30:6-8 6 “Moreover the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live. 7 The Lord your God will inflict all these curses on your enemies and on those who hate you, who persecuted you. 8 And you shall again obey the Lord, and observe all His commandments which I command you today.
Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
Ryan
Member
This is not speaking about Deuteronomy 29 and 30 though. Israel had still not been cursed and banished to the ends of the earth. Deuteronomy 29 and 30 were speaking of a time much, much further then Joshua's time.
thisnumbersdisconnected
Member
Jason (and others here) ...
To be dealt with as a spiritual state, Israel had to again become a political state, otherwise there was no entity by which the Jewish people could be referenced as a "nation" among secular thinking peoples. The Jewish people have always thought of themselves as a nation, regardless of whether they had a physical state with borders or not. But the rest of the world, in it's boxed-in non-spiritual thinking, couldn't recognize a borderless state or deal with it on an international stage. Moreover, they wouldn't have felt they needed to "deal with it" if it wasn't a physical state occupying real estate somewhere in the world.
Perhaps more importantly, without a physical presence in the Mideast, the conflict that must be set up between the world and Israel during the Tribulation couldn't happen.
So, to say that the creation of Israel as a physical state in 1948 was not the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy is (forgive me, Jason) very shortsighted.
To be dealt with as a spiritual state, Israel had to again become a political state, otherwise there was no entity by which the Jewish people could be referenced as a "nation" among secular thinking peoples. The Jewish people have always thought of themselves as a nation, regardless of whether they had a physical state with borders or not. But the rest of the world, in it's boxed-in non-spiritual thinking, couldn't recognize a borderless state or deal with it on an international stage. Moreover, they wouldn't have felt they needed to "deal with it" if it wasn't a physical state occupying real estate somewhere in the world.
Perhaps more importantly, without a physical presence in the Mideast, the conflict that must be set up between the world and Israel during the Tribulation couldn't happen.
So, to say that the creation of Israel as a physical state in 1948 was not the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy is (forgive me, Jason) very shortsighted.
jasoncran
Member
really so when they start following the torah then what? God wont mind them killing Christians for the idea of the messiah.
Isreal had to repent, the founders of modern secular isreal were athiests, not in anywise followers of judiasm. whenever isreal was banished they had to repent first then they were restored.
there are more jews in America then isreal. sorry. that is the facts.
yet we tell America, better repent for abortion and gay rights, as god will judge thee. and yet with isreal whom does the exact same. God bless Isreal and chai isreal.so what does a christen Hebrew state do these days to please God?
can I as a jew and member of that state if I so choose( in order to qualify for the jewish land fund) I would have to renounce CHRIST.
.
http://www.israellandfund.com/en-us/index.htm
sorry that cant be the case for me. I choose Christ as the most Jewish apostle did. he counted all that pharisitical and judiasm stuff as dung.I have yet to met a jew who said I believe because of isreal is here. funny that the cross and the sin revalation is the reason all peoples come to Christ. not the prophecy of 1948. I didn't for me and nor my brother no my great uncle. and wont likely for my aunt who just started attending a Baptist church. I refuse to mention the sages and etc to here. she is too young in Christ if she is at all.it would confuse her.
Isreal had to repent, the founders of modern secular isreal were athiests, not in anywise followers of judiasm. whenever isreal was banished they had to repent first then they were restored.
there are more jews in America then isreal. sorry. that is the facts.
yet we tell America, better repent for abortion and gay rights, as god will judge thee. and yet with isreal whom does the exact same. God bless Isreal and chai isreal.so what does a christen Hebrew state do these days to please God?
can I as a jew and member of that state if I so choose( in order to qualify for the jewish land fund) I would have to renounce CHRIST.
.
http://www.israellandfund.com/en-us/index.htm
sorry that cant be the case for me. I choose Christ as the most Jewish apostle did. he counted all that pharisitical and judiasm stuff as dung.I have yet to met a jew who said I believe because of isreal is here. funny that the cross and the sin revalation is the reason all peoples come to Christ. not the prophecy of 1948. I didn't for me and nor my brother no my great uncle. and wont likely for my aunt who just started attending a Baptist church. I refuse to mention the sages and etc to here. she is too young in Christ if she is at all.it would confuse her.
jasoncran
Member
no that is incorrect. the jews were always there in palenstine. they never left.the jews wanted that state so they could be protected from the European hatred.you futurists also forget that if you get a jew saved before the rapture then he isn't off isreal. for a jew must leave isreal as he knows it to get saved. if you don't know that then you really don't know about jewry.
isreal is as such.
1) the 613 commands by moses to be followed
2) the sacrificial system
3) the kosher laws
4) the kingdom of isreal and its legal system with a Sanhedrin and kings and princes.
5) the reading of the tanach
the orthodox jews believe this all will come back and isreal will be doing what they were called to do. be a light unto the gentiles. so wait a minute if the church is doing that light then why do we teach that the church fails when Christ said it wont fail?
isreal is as such.
1) the 613 commands by moses to be followed
2) the sacrificial system
3) the kosher laws
4) the kingdom of isreal and its legal system with a Sanhedrin and kings and princes.
5) the reading of the tanach
the orthodox jews believe this all will come back and isreal will be doing what they were called to do. be a light unto the gentiles. so wait a minute if the church is doing that light then why do we teach that the church fails when Christ said it wont fail?
Arch Angle
Member
one thing is clear, the fool that created a state right in the middle ofanother country set force a mechanism for the devil.
It would be like putting a Chinese communist country right in the middle of Texasand expecting no hard feelings.
Oh wait, we did it in the name of god, so we must be correct. silly me.
It would be like putting a Chinese communist country right in the middle of Texasand expecting no hard feelings.
Oh wait, we did it in the name of god, so we must be correct. silly me.
thisnumbersdisconnected
Member
But it is part of the Land, and that part is sufficient to restore the physical Israel that must be in place prior to the Rapture and Tribulation. The Ezekiel 39 prophecy of the attack on Israel being struck down by the hand of God is not a spiritual, euphemistic event. It is an attack on the physical nation of Israel. There has to be such a place for that to happen. Ezekiel indicates this miraculous defeat of Israel's enemies will lead to the revival of spiritual Israel.
Ryan
Member
Jason: Nobody is arguing that Israel is a secular, and by and large, a Jesus rejecting nation. I do not think for one second that Israel in its current state of secularism, will not face extreme trials and tribulations before the end of the age. It has been prophecied. That is how they will come to accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. Not by wins on the battlefield, but by struggles and hardship. Israel is in for a rude awakening before the coming of Jesus on the Mount of Olives.
Zechariah 14:1-3 "Behold, a day is coming for the Lord when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you. 2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. 4 In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.
And the Lord makes it clear about why he is doing this.
Ezekiel 36:21 But I had concern for My holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations where they went.
Ezekiel 36:22-25 22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. 23 I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord,†declares the Lord God, “when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight. 24 For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols
Ezekiel 36:31-32 31 Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and your abominations. 32I am not doing this for your sake,†declares the Lord God, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel!â€
He is using Israel to declare his Holy Name amongst the nations.
Zechariah 14:1-3 "Behold, a day is coming for the Lord when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you. 2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. 4 In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.
And the Lord makes it clear about why he is doing this.
Ezekiel 36:21 But I had concern for My holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations where they went.
Ezekiel 36:22-25 22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. 23 I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord,†declares the Lord God, “when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight. 24 For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols
Ezekiel 36:31-32 31 Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and your abominations. 32I am not doing this for your sake,†declares the Lord God, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel!â€
He is using Israel to declare his Holy Name amongst the nations.