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Christians vs. Non-christians

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j791

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The bible, word of God, states that good deeds alone are not enough and that you must believe. This means the majority of the world is not going to be saved since the majority are not Christians. I asked several people about this and they all had differing views. Some say only God can make that decision while others say he already did since the bible is the word of God.

Any thoughts?
 
The bible, word of God, states that good deeds alone are not enough and that you must believe. This means the majority of the world is not going to be saved since the majority are not Christians. I asked several people about this and they all had differing views. Some say only God can make that decision while others say he already did since the bible is the word of God.

Any thoughts?

j791 -

Greeting in love with our Lord Jesus Christ.

If I may, what are your thoughts to this? This seems to be the fundamental truths about the Bible regarding salvation.

Scripture(s) of reference

James 2:18
Matthew 7:13

Hope you have a blessed day

LJ
 
The bible, word of God, states that good deeds alone are not enough and that you must believe. This means the majority of the world is not going to be saved since the majority are not Christians. I asked several people about this and they all had differing views. Some say only God can make that decision while others say he already did since the bible is the word of God.

Any thoughts?

My personal belief is that not all are going to be saved now. This is not the only season (age). Presently, those called now are the church. Their purpose is to rule and reign in the millennium as Christ will--- to teach and bring salvation to all under the perfect government of God aka the millennium.

Then after that, there will be a Great White Throne Judgement --- another "mini-millennium" time slot of sorts, where Revelation teaches the resurrection of everyone else who never had the chance, never had the understanding to walk in God's ways. Many more will be saved then.

I believe it will be far better than all the crooked, lying governments and institutions of today which God is proving to mankind that in his own, sinful way cannot do in spite of the millennia of time we had "to get it right" but still don't. And the height of such arrogance is any new generation that thinks they will get it right. A prime example is my generation, the baby boomers, particularly those in the "hippy generation" who imagined the utopias and were critical of establishments. Now that they are in power, look at what we have --- something far more screwed up than ever.

After the Great White Throne Judgement, it is my belief that comparatively few will rebel and be sent to the lake of fire. Eternal fire means judgement, i.e. the person is destroyed eternally and never to be raised again.

Once the fires of hell burn out, God will create a new heaven and earth --- the old ways will be gone, never to be remembered.

I think the important thing to understand is that God (had) has different ages of revelation and execution of His plan, and the so-called "church age" is just one of them where it does not end here. There's more (and better) things to come.

Contrary to what you've been taught or probably heard, Christianity is not about "dying and going to heaven". This hedonistic philosophy that crept in has its roots in paganism.
 
:eeeekkk nevermind i wont derail this into another anti-rapture thread.

but i will start one showing that if one is a futurists its likely that conclusion does happen.
 
Greetings to you all.

The bible, word of God, states that good deeds alone are not enough and that you must believe. This means the majority of the world is not going to be saved since the majority are not Christians

I'm trying to follow these responses you guys have made, but they basically are about an ever-lasting punishment, the Great White Throne judgement, the fires of Hell burning out and then another response about an anti-rapture.. Whew, some deep insights for such a fundamental question about salvation!

I want to understand and maybe if j791 can weigh in on this so we can narrow this back down to his original question. I don't know (he could) be looking for these type of answers, but the answer just seems so much simpler.. Am I wrong by suggesting this? Please forgive my ill-knowledge on such an issue.

If I'm out of place please tell me? I want to learn and grow in Christ everyday!

God bless you all

-LJ
 
We are saved by grace.

But faith without works if dead...if someone is really saved, it will show through their works. If our works don't reflect our hearts then how can we really be new creatures in Christ?
 
God is the final arbiter regarding salvation.

I can say that I believe that those that lived before Jesus, that were looking forward to the Messiah, will be saved. Those that haven't reached the age of accountability will be saved. I think those without the mental capacity to decide would be included. Those Jews that never had the opportunity to hear the good news of Jesus, would be saved.

And I believe that God's grace can extend to people that live in tribes that have never heard of Jesus, but believe in a single God who created the universe.

There will be Christians and Jews who will unfortunately not gain entrance to the Kingdom of God. Ultimately, it's a personal relationship with the Creator.

If you've heard the good news, and reject the Messiah, you're not getting into heaven.
 
j791, Hi. In order for you to get a definative answer you must ask a definative question. You say that you "asked several people"; from what perspective were each of them? Your sentence "Some say..." says that only God can make that decision and then says He made that decison. What are you looking for? Are you trying to start an argument or really get an answer? If the later is the case, please refine your question so that it is more definative about exactly which you seek. Thank you very much. Seek the Truth and you will find it.

JimJib -

I agree, it's such a broad question considering that he has already questioned some Christians. This is why in my original post to him here - I asked him what his thoughts were; because it sounds more argumentative then genuine. I hope I'm wrong by stating that and if I am I ask for forgiveness from j791.

But as I said in my previous post, I think we need to hear back from him first in order to narrow this back into perspective.
 
Greetings to you all.



I'm trying to follow these responses you guys have made, but they basically are about an ever-lasting punishment, the Great White Throne judgement, the fires of Hell burning out and then another response about an anti-rapture.. Whew, some deep insights for such a fundamental question about salvation!

I want to understand and maybe if j791 can weigh in on this so we can narrow this back down to his original question. I don't know (he could) be looking for these type of answers, but the answer just seems so much simpler.. Am I wrong by suggesting this? Please forgive my ill-knowledge on such an issue.

If I'm out of place please tell me? I want to learn and grow in Christ everyday!

God bless you all

-LJ

I'll tell you where I'm coming from, then it will make sense. I believe God's prophetic plan for man's redemption was laid out in the Hebrew feast days of Leviticus 23. Passover was his sacrifice on the cross, Unleavened Bread the sinless lamb of God was buried and also symbolizes coming out of sin to a new life in Christ. Firstfruits was His resurrection. The first harvest of salvation was Pentecost, aka the birthday of the church. But that's not the last harvest. Then there's a harvest in the autumn feasts --- Trumpets (the second Coming) Atonement (putting away of Satan and at-one-ment with His people) and Tabernacles (the millennial reign of Christ). These, too, will be saved at that time. Then there is a separate feast closely connected with Tabernacles called the "Last Great Day" (see John 7:37 regarding what Jesus said about this day). It represents the Great White Throne Judgement when the rest of humanity will be resurrected and given a chance mentioned in Revelation.

The whole of prophecy in the feasts is all about man's salvation which was the subject of the OP, but in all fairness the OP also asked about the conditions of it --- the implication the poster believed that it is all here and now, today. Well, it is for some people, but I wanted to point out there's other harvests to come for other people.

This is why we have to ditch our Lenten-Easter-Epiphany-Christmas season calendar and adopt God's calendar which are shadows of things to come and not some pious invention of man that has nothing to do with Christ other than to attach his name to it.
 
We are saved by grace.

But faith without works if dead...if someone is really saved, it will show through their works. If our works don't reflect our hearts then how can we really be new creatures in Christ?
....born again. Can we count the trillions of lives before us that rejected God/Jesus? But can we also count the trillions that will be saved? I'm working on a new attitude.
 
I'll tell you where I'm coming from, then it will make sense. I believe God's prophetic plan for man's redemption was laid out in the Hebrew feast days of Leviticus 23. Passover was his sacrifice on the cross, Unleavened Bread the sinless lamb of God was buried and also symbolizes coming out of sin to a new life in Christ. Firstfruits was His resurrection. The first harvest of salvation was Pentecost, aka the birthday of the church. But that's not the last harvest. Then there's a harvest in the autumn feasts --- Trumpets (the second Coming) Atonement (putting away of Satan and at-one-ment with His people) and Tabernacles (the millennial reign of Christ). These, too, will be saved at that time. Then there is a separate feast closely connected with Tabernacles called the "Last Great Day" (see John 7:37 regarding what Jesus said about this day). It represents the Great White Throne Judgement when the rest of humanity will be resurrected and given a chance mentioned in Revelation.

The whole of prophecy in the feasts is all about man's salvation which was the subject of the OP, but in all fairness the OP also asked about the conditions of it --- the implication the poster believed that it is all here and now, today. Well, it is for some people, but I wanted to point out there's other harvests to come for other people.

This is why we have to ditch our Lenten-Easter-Epiphany-Christmas season calendar and adopt God's calendar which are shadows of things to come and not some pious invention of man that has nothing to do with Christ other than to attach his name to it.

tim-from-pa -

Greetings in the love of our Lord Jesus Christ

So I know about the Spring feast and the Fall feast and their meanings. But where you lost me was this "Last Great Day" in which the " Great White Throne Judgement when the rest of humanity will be resurrected and given a chance". A chance for what?

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment..

What chance are you referring to, and in what Scripture(s) can this be located so I may read and study on this subject..

Thank you
 
A chance for what?
A chance for salvation. The scripture I was alluding to was mentioned earlier in John 7:37 --- what Jesus proclaimed was related to the Last Day. He always had the perfect timing to relate what he said to that which was given in the Law of Moses. After the GWT Judgement, we know that there will be a new heaven and new earth. Everything will be settled forever then.
 
I wonder about this, too. What do we say about people who reject Christ...because of Christians? Because they're too crazy, too poor, too gay, too traumatized/repulsed by what they see Christians doing? The Catholic Church allows for the (potential) salvation of non-Christians.

What if you were abused by a Christian parent or, even worse, a priest or minister? What if your only experience of Christianity was judgment and hypocrisy? Will God send you to Hell because of some psychological block that kept The Truth out? What if you're one of those terrible "Christians" who lives worse than 99% of non-believers? What then?
 
A chance for salvation. The scripture I was alluding to was mentioned earlier in John 7:37 --- what Jesus proclaimed was related to the Last Day. He always had the perfect timing to relate what he said to that which was given in the Law of Moses. After the GWT Judgement, we know that there will be a new heaven and new earth. Everything will be settled forever then.

tim-from-pa -

Thank you for replying to this message.

You base this belief off only one Scripture?
 
I will believe wold of god which have all person history about whole work.
 
There are millions of people in the world who have never even heard of Jesus.:nod

Would a caring God reject non-Christians if they had never heard of Christianity?:tongueuppydogeyes
 
Not everyone will be saved and be with God in the new creation though, the Bible is pretty clear on that

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
 
Grazer, I never said or implied that. But ALL have the opportunity somehow if you go by Ephes 1: 4-10 and 2Pt 3:9 and understand God to be in control.

By the way, it would give credibility to anyone's postion if they would cite God's Word which substaniates their position. One certainly doesn't HAVE to here, but it is just heresay or conjecture, until one does.

Oh we all have the opportunity but not everyone will take that opportunity, accept the gift on offer.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
 
There are millions of people in the world who have never even heard of Jesus.:nod

Would a caring God reject non-Christians if they had never heard of Christianity?:tongueuppydogeyes

If you look at my earlier posts about the feasts, you will see this is not the case where God rejects anyone. However, people are saved in their own time when God calls them in their proper order. Things can be simplified if we take these following scriptural facts into consideration:

1) No man can come to Christ except the Spirit draws him (commonly misconstrued as predestination is only that of sorts at the time of the calling, not as a final outcome)
2) When Christ is lifted up, he will draw ALL men unto him (so there will be a time that everyone who ever lived will have that opportunity contingent on Christ's work at the cross).
3) He is not willing any should perish (hence everyone will be given a chance)

If we look at Ezekiel chapter 37, we find an interesting view of the resurrection of all Israel. But when are they raised? We can look to Revelation first:

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. <sup class="versenum">5 </sup>But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
<sup class="versenum">6 </sup>Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Ancient Israel that said, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts, cannot be part of that first resurrection as they were exiled due to their sins. But the promise in that passage is:


Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
<sup class="versenum">13 </sup>And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
<sup class="versenum">14 </sup>And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.


So, besides a national restoration which this can include if we take it symbolically, also has a literal application to those Israelites raised again (as Revelation says there will be a resurrection after the 1000 years) and these people will be saved.


Let's now look closer at the resurrection after the 1000 years:


And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
<sup class="versenum">12 </sup>And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


In the feasts of the Lord, this event, a judgement (not sentencing yet), is where people not in the first resurrection (which the bible makes it clear only those who rule and reign with Christ, not all of humanity) will be raised (see John 5:28-29, as a matter of fact that while chapter is good).


The books that will be opened will be the bible. The fact that the book of life is there shows there's those whose name will be written in the book of life, despite not being raised until then. Already, I've shown scripture about the Israelites raised again.


Jesus made an interesting proclamation that I already addressed in John 7:37 regarding this great day.


But, after this age, after the millennium, and even after the Great White Throne Judgement, there's those who knew the truth but refused to follow it. Revelation answers the fate of those in their resurrection:



And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
<sup class="versenum">14 </sup>And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
<sup class="versenum">15 </sup>And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Eternal fire represents judgement: these people are burned up, being incorrigibly wicked (they were resurrected in physical bodies--- e.g. Lazarus was raised physically whereas Paul speaks of the believer as having a spiritual body, so there are different ways). They become ashes and are forever destroyed, thus eternal fire. As Malachi 4 states they will become ashes under the feet of the righteous.



I think it's then fitting after such a lake of fire that the earth will need a little renovating from this. Don't you? :lol That's where the new heavens and new earth come in.


I told the story the way I believe the bible teaches. In all this, is there anyone that can honestly say that God is unfair or reject anyone? So, if everyone is not called now, why preach the gospel? Simple (these are my reasons I found in the bible)


1) To proclaim the coming Kingdom of God as a witness.

2) For God to call and prepare those who heard that proclamation to be rulers and priests with Him
3) And a corollary to #2, by virtue of the fact that we were born into this age and have the capacity to hear the gospel shows that perhaps God does want more called than we realize, in spite we are called a "little flock"--- just so as not to sound too lazy I don't want to be misconstrued as saying, "We'll get saved tomorrow". We all have one chance. If God gives another, then great, but he is not required to. Today may be yours. However, that's also contingent on hearing the true gospel. Nothing personal, but much of mainline Christianity is a false gospel, and as such I do not believe God would judge a person who has been deceived.
 
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