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Chronicles of the Devil
- Thread starter Biblereader
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Biblereader
Member
ha ha! Good one!
Biblereader
Member
a
M
MISFIT
Guest
I love Narnia, and all of C.S Lewis' other book. I don't think its demonic and I think that there are so many better things a christian can do with his/her time than just condemning all forms of entertainment, like oh how about taking cake of the poor and reaching the lost. Now who was it that told us to do these things..... Oh yeah Jesus!
There seem to be far too many here that are just out to condemn rather than love maybe I don't belong here either...
There seem to be far too many here that are just out to condemn rather than love maybe I don't belong here either...
Biblereader
Member
I'm NOT condemning anyone or anything!
I'm TRYING to reach you, and anyone else who has been lured into the subtle magic
and witchcraft of today's popular culture.
Hey, go watch the video I just posted here, it will make you feel better!
Look here:This is a group of people who decided to do something incredibly creative at their church, and they have on white gloves and are performing in front of a black light ... enjoy!
http://www.mychurch.org/blog/30635
I'm TRYING to reach you, and anyone else who has been lured into the subtle magic
and witchcraft of today's popular culture.
Hey, go watch the video I just posted here, it will make you feel better!
Look here:This is a group of people who decided to do something incredibly creative at their church, and they have on white gloves and are performing in front of a black light ... enjoy!
http://www.mychurch.org/blog/30635
Laudate Dominum
Member
I think that the Chronicles of Narnia bring up an interesting point- we aren't necessarily the only universe our all-powerful God has created. In many ways, he was trying to explain our own salvation by offering a parallel scenario in a parallel universe. One could easily see deliberate connections between the Bible and the Narnia books. C.S. Lewis was trying to explain and defend Christianity, not to harm it. I find it hard to believe that the man who wrote Mere Christianity was a tool of the devil :roll:
Laudate Dominum
Member
Unless this thread was meant to be a joke, in which case, rofl.Laudate Dominum said:
M
MISFIT
Guest
Biblereader said:
Thanks for your concern but I'm fine. I know without a doubt that I am saved and I know Jesus loves me no matter if I read Sci-Fi and fantasy novels or not. So what do you think C.S. Lewis was really a devil worshiper pretending to be a devout Christian? Have you ever read mere Christianity? It's one of the best apologetic books I've ever read and it was written by guess who? C.S Lewis.
Biblereader
Member
johnmuise said:
That's just the kind of thinking that gives a man an excuse to watch porn, or violence, or blasphemy.
You say, Oh, I'm too strong to fall.
Then, you watch garbage, and tell OTHERS that it's ok to do so!
Do you see ANY reason why your comment above MIGHT BE WRONG?
Biblereader
Member
MISFIT said:
Yes, and yes. I've read his books, and I am sure he was lost when he died.
Look here: While many of us have been deceived by this man's apparent spiritual insight, he actually believed many doctrines of devils and by the end of his life was rapidly embracing Roman Catholicism and Taoism.
http://www.crossroad.to/Excerpts/books/ ... lition.htm
Personal note: Since C. S. Lewis points readers to this book, The Abolition of Man, in the first chapter of his more familiar book, Mere Christianity, these excerpts should help explain what Lewis meant by "Right and Wrong" and by his many references to a "Law of Human Nature." They show how he merged truth and behavior into a universal package of "good" values found in all major religions. Keep in mind, Lewis was writing this multicultural philosophy in between some of his more "Christian" books.
See also C. S. Lewis Timeline and Lewis, Tolkien and Barfield explore reincarnation and theosophy
Lewis seems to see Chinese Taoism as a universal ethical umbrella -- one that would include Christianity as well as other religions. Symbolized by the Yin Yang, the Tao would be the supreme guide to moral and ethical values:
"The Chinese also speak of a great thing (the greatest thing) called the Tao. It is the reality behind all predicates, the abyss that was before the Creator Himself. It is Nature, it is the Way, the Road. It is the Way the universe goes on, the Way in which things everlastingly emerge... into space and time. It is also the Way which every man should tread in imitation of that cosmic and supercosmic progression, conforming all activities to that great exemplar. [page 30]
Biblereader
Member
You CAN NOT follow Jesus, and believe in other religions,at the same time.
Jesus said you can not serve 2 masters.
By the way, for the guy who loved LOTR, Tolkien was NOT a Christian, no matter how much
you white wash him.
http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/spiritua ... -lewis.htm
Please see and KNOW that what I'm telling you to avoid is SIN, and sinful reading.
Please avoid even the appearance of evil.
Tolkien and C.S. Lewis were NOT born again Christians.
Jesus said you can not serve 2 masters.
By the way, for the guy who loved LOTR, Tolkien was NOT a Christian, no matter how much
you white wash him.
http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/spiritua ... -lewis.htm
Please see and KNOW that what I'm telling you to avoid is SIN, and sinful reading.
Please avoid even the appearance of evil.
Tolkien and C.S. Lewis were NOT born again Christians.
Biblereader
Member
Instead of the Christian's hope of eternal life, Tolkien's world offers re-incarnation -- but only for a select group. This popular notion defies the Scriptures that tell us that "it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment..." [Heb 9:27] Concerned about this contradiction, the manager of a Catholic bookstore asked Tolkien if he might have "over-stepped the mark in metaphysical matters." Tolkien wrote this response,
"'Reincarnation' may be bad theology (that surely, rather than metaphysics) as applied to Humanity... But I do not see how even in the Primary world any theologian or philosopher, unless very much better informed about the relation of spirit and body than I believe anyone to be, could deny the possibility of re-incarnation as a mode of existence, prescribed for certain kinds of rational incarnate creatures."[10]
Since Tolkien denies any supposed allegorical link between his myth and Biblical truth, it's not fair to hold his stories accountable to that truth. Nor is it wise to continue claiming that they teach us God's truth. Those who do could easily be tempted to lower their guard, set aside discernment, internalize the fascinating suggestions and be drawn to occult images -- the opposite of God's warning in Romans 12:9: "Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good."
The movie version of The Lord of the Rings idealizes occultism and cheers the pagan practices used by "good" characters. Like Star Wars, Harry Potter and the world's pagan cultures, it seduces its fans into an imaginary world that pits "white" or benevolent magic against dark, evil magic. Both sides of this imagined "battle between good and evil" use occult practices that God forbids. [Deut 18:9-12]. Those who walk with Him, cannot delight in what He calls evil.
"'Reincarnation' may be bad theology (that surely, rather than metaphysics) as applied to Humanity... But I do not see how even in the Primary world any theologian or philosopher, unless very much better informed about the relation of spirit and body than I believe anyone to be, could deny the possibility of re-incarnation as a mode of existence, prescribed for certain kinds of rational incarnate creatures."[10]
Since Tolkien denies any supposed allegorical link between his myth and Biblical truth, it's not fair to hold his stories accountable to that truth. Nor is it wise to continue claiming that they teach us God's truth. Those who do could easily be tempted to lower their guard, set aside discernment, internalize the fascinating suggestions and be drawn to occult images -- the opposite of God's warning in Romans 12:9: "Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good."
The movie version of The Lord of the Rings idealizes occultism and cheers the pagan practices used by "good" characters. Like Star Wars, Harry Potter and the world's pagan cultures, it seduces its fans into an imaginary world that pits "white" or benevolent magic against dark, evil magic. Both sides of this imagined "battle between good and evil" use occult practices that God forbids. [Deut 18:9-12]. Those who walk with Him, cannot delight in what He calls evil.
M
MISFIT
Guest
So biblereader, do you just walk around condemning people to hell if they are don't act, dress and worship your way? It seems to me that you need to do bit less condemning and a lot more loving. Tell me how did Jesus handle the woman that was caught in the act of adultery? Did he say," You sinning whore! I condemn you to HELL!!!!!!!!!!" Or did he say," your sins are forgiven and I do not condemn you."? Yes Jesus warned of hell, but that was not the only thing he talked about, he was all about love and compassion, and we need to be all about love and compassion. The hell fire and brimstone thing is just plain worthless, you will not help anyone with that approach it is far more damaging that helpful. I can tell you right now before I was saved anyone using your approach of hell fire, I just b]got {angry} at them usually threw a few profanities at them and walked away. Now if someone where to approach me with the Love of Jesus I would give them a chance, and that was ultimately what led to my salvation.
So look I'm not trying to fight with you, I just really don't get why so many Christians are more interested in "fighting the good fight" going out and telling everyone believed or not how to live, what to watch, what to listen to, what to eat, how to dress etc etc etc.... Instead of going out and taking care of the poor and spreading the love of the true gospel of Christ, just like Jesus told us to. Go back and read Acts, the early church was not out condemning, they where out there helping one another and anyone else in need, they fed people, healed them and loved them.
So look I'm not trying to fight with you, I just really don't get why so many Christians are more interested in "fighting the good fight" going out and telling everyone believed or not how to live, what to watch, what to listen to, what to eat, how to dress etc etc etc.... Instead of going out and taking care of the poor and spreading the love of the true gospel of Christ, just like Jesus told us to. Go back and read Acts, the early church was not out condemning, they where out there helping one another and anyone else in need, they fed people, healed them and loved them.
handy
Member
OK, guys, let's settle down. Biblereader has obviously done some research and desires to share what she's found with us. While some might reject her findings and still find great theological truths in the works of Lewis and Tolkien, others might rethink their positions on these men. Whatever, let's keep from getting involved in personal attacks.
Myself, I've never heard of anything that would convince me that Lewis would have died a non-Christian. Even the quotes you've provided Biblereader, can be looked at in several ways. For instance, this one by Lewis on Taoism:
So this is what the Chinese believe about the Tao. However, in what context is Lewis is telling us what the Chinese believe about the Tao? Is it because he is convinced of the truth of Taoism? Or is he merely telling us what Taoist's believe and then fit their beliefs in with the common thread of religion throughout all the world. In this quote, I see no 'promotion' of Taoism, just a definintion. For example, I can put this definition into this post:
"Tao literally means "path" or "way"(and also means "say" or "be said"), and can figuratively mean "essential nature", "destiny", "principle", or "true path". The philosophical and religious "Tao" is infinite, without limitation. One view states that the paradoxical opening is intended to prepare the reader for teachings about the unteachable Tao. Tao is believed to be transcendent, indistinct and without form. Hence, it cannot be named or categorized. Even the word "Tao" can be considered a dangerous temptation to make Tao a limiting "name". (Wikipedia)"
and someone can come along and pull this out of my writing here and claim that I cannot be a born again Christian because this is what I believe about Taoism. It is what I believe about Taoism, but the thing is, I don't actually follow Taoism. I follow Christ.
Keep in mind, Biblereader, that I am in no way accusing you of deliberately twisting Lewis' or Tolkien's beliefs. But, I am questioning the sources that you are using. Just as I tend to question the source of just about everything.
Myself, I've never heard of anything that would convince me that Lewis would have died a non-Christian. Even the quotes you've provided Biblereader, can be looked at in several ways. For instance, this one by Lewis on Taoism:
So this is what the Chinese believe about the Tao. However, in what context is Lewis is telling us what the Chinese believe about the Tao? Is it because he is convinced of the truth of Taoism? Or is he merely telling us what Taoist's believe and then fit their beliefs in with the common thread of religion throughout all the world. In this quote, I see no 'promotion' of Taoism, just a definintion. For example, I can put this definition into this post:
"Tao literally means "path" or "way"(and also means "say" or "be said"), and can figuratively mean "essential nature", "destiny", "principle", or "true path". The philosophical and religious "Tao" is infinite, without limitation. One view states that the paradoxical opening is intended to prepare the reader for teachings about the unteachable Tao. Tao is believed to be transcendent, indistinct and without form. Hence, it cannot be named or categorized. Even the word "Tao" can be considered a dangerous temptation to make Tao a limiting "name". (Wikipedia)"
and someone can come along and pull this out of my writing here and claim that I cannot be a born again Christian because this is what I believe about Taoism. It is what I believe about Taoism, but the thing is, I don't actually follow Taoism. I follow Christ.
Keep in mind, Biblereader, that I am in no way accusing you of deliberately twisting Lewis' or Tolkien's beliefs. But, I am questioning the sources that you are using. Just as I tend to question the source of just about everything.
Laudate Dominum
Member
Whatreally suprises me about many evangelical Christians is that they insist that every work of fiction must be limited by what is true. If the author draws on myths or any source other than the Bible, then his (or her) works are condemned as the work of Satan! :roll:
Lewis and Tolkein did well in their efforts to present theological ideas in different contexts. Perhaps Gandalf did not reincarnate, but resurrect. In order to understand Tolkein's uiverse, one must read his "creation story" in the Silmarillion. In Lewis' universe, Aslan is very similar to Jesus in many ways. Anyone who reads the novels in that context could see it. And yet Lewis was not trying to induce anyone to worship Aslan; neither is that hard to see in his writings.
If they were generous in terms of who they thought might be saved, then they were generous. But is not our God generous? Does he not want us all to get to Heaven? Would he not want to reward the efforts of men like Tolkein and Lewis for their efforts to spread and defend belief in Christ?
If Lewsi seemed to be very close to being Catholic, it is because he was rather close. He was once an atheist, but became Christian again and traced his conversion to reading a book by a Catholic theologian. His theology is very similar to Catholic theology, but (from a certain point of view), that is only logical.
Lewis and Tolkein did well in their efforts to present theological ideas in different contexts. Perhaps Gandalf did not reincarnate, but resurrect. In order to understand Tolkein's uiverse, one must read his "creation story" in the Silmarillion. In Lewis' universe, Aslan is very similar to Jesus in many ways. Anyone who reads the novels in that context could see it. And yet Lewis was not trying to induce anyone to worship Aslan; neither is that hard to see in his writings.
If they were generous in terms of who they thought might be saved, then they were generous. But is not our God generous? Does he not want us all to get to Heaven? Would he not want to reward the efforts of men like Tolkein and Lewis for their efforts to spread and defend belief in Christ?
If Lewsi seemed to be very close to being Catholic, it is because he was rather close. He was once an atheist, but became Christian again and traced his conversion to reading a book by a Catholic theologian. His theology is very similar to Catholic theology, but (from a certain point of view), that is only logical.
Vic C.
Member
Hi Misfit. You said:
I suggest we all read 1 Cor 13. 8-)
It's this way; some choose the path of least resistance. It's much easier to condemn that it is to help convert. Witnessing is a thankless task sometimes. We don't always see immediately the fruits of our witness ans testimony, but we often do get some sort of immediate gratification out of condemning. It's Man's pride, more often than not.
I suggest we all read 1 Cor 13. 8-)
Biblereader
Member
I didn't write those articles.
You are angry at the wrong person.
You are angry at the wrong person.
Biblereader
Member
To all of you who believe Jesus never said anything that might be considered "mean", or condemnatory....Please read these direct quotes from the bible. Jesus said them.
43: Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45: And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
O generation of vipers"
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34: Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
36: Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
they themselves are the servants of corruption:
Revelation 21:8 - But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign."
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it:
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
5: And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28: Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
14: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15: For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7: And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
as natural brute beasts,
No one enjoys receiving a tongue lashing. Especially when those being lashed consider themselves respectable, law-abiding, upright citizens. I'm NOT condeming anyone, I am simply standing up to the false religion of such books as Harry Potter, Narnia, Lord of the Rings, and yes, even C.S. Lewis. Jesus said we are supposed to grow up, be spiritually mature.
We are supposed to stop drinking milk, and EAT MEAT.
Study to shew thyself approved !!
Growing up causes pains, sometimes. It hurts to grow up. It feels bad to find out Santa Claus was a lie, and the tooth fairy doesn't exist.
It's harder to feed yourself, than to let someone spoon feed you, but, would you rather remain spiritually immature? What will you tell Jesus, when He asks you why you chose to remain
childish in spiritual matters?
Learn how to pick up the Sword of the Spirit, and FIGHT back!
Fight the good fight of faith.
43: Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45: And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
O generation of vipers"
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34: Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
36: Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
they themselves are the servants of corruption:
Revelation 21:8 - But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign."
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it:
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
5: And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28: Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
14: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15: For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7: And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
as natural brute beasts,
No one enjoys receiving a tongue lashing. Especially when those being lashed consider themselves respectable, law-abiding, upright citizens. I'm NOT condeming anyone, I am simply standing up to the false religion of such books as Harry Potter, Narnia, Lord of the Rings, and yes, even C.S. Lewis. Jesus said we are supposed to grow up, be spiritually mature.
We are supposed to stop drinking milk, and EAT MEAT.
Study to shew thyself approved !!
Growing up causes pains, sometimes. It hurts to grow up. It feels bad to find out Santa Claus was a lie, and the tooth fairy doesn't exist.
It's harder to feed yourself, than to let someone spoon feed you, but, would you rather remain spiritually immature? What will you tell Jesus, when He asks you why you chose to remain
childish in spiritual matters?
Learn how to pick up the Sword of the Spirit, and FIGHT back!
Fight the good fight of faith.