Cigarette Smoking Christians

[Nathan Kendall]

I love how this is debatable, but when it comes down to it... try imagining this.

Imagine if someone made a cigarette ad and it had Jesus lighting a cigar.

I don't know about you, but I'd be offended by that ad.

After you have thought about that, remember that you must follow his example. Carry your cross and follow him.

Instantly, it seems pretty obvious to me that I shouldn't smoke.
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[Hitch]

I love how this is debatable, but when it comes down to it... try imagining this.

Imagine if someone made a cigarette ad and it had Jesus lighting a cigar.

I don't know about you, but I'd be offended by that ad.

After you have thought about that, remember that you must follow his example. Carry your cross and follow him.

Instantly, it seems pretty obvious to me that I shouldn't smoke.
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Actually it is the making of the image of Christ that is strictly prohibited in scripture.

 

[Nathan Kendall]

*cough*

Luke 9:23 (New King James Version)

Take Up the Cross and Follow Him

<sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-25321">23</sup> Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily,<sup class="footnote" value="[<a href=&quot;#fen-NKJV-25321a&quot; title=&quot;See footnote a&quot;>a</a>]">[a]</sup> and follow Me.

The verse says we are supposed to be imitators of Christ, as in his example.
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[pjt]

I love how this is debatable, but when it comes down to it... try imagining this.

Imagine if someone made a cigarette ad and it had Jesus lighting a cigar.

I don't know about you, but I'd be offended by that ad.

After you have thought about that, remember that you must follow his example. Carry your cross and follow him.

Instantly, it seems pretty obvious to me that I shouldn't smoke.
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If I saw an ad with Jesus in swimming trunks at the beach, I`d be offended. If I saw an ad with Jesus in a bookstore selecting a book on how to speak a foreign language, I`d be offended. If I saw an ad with Jesus selling oranges, I`d be offended. I`d be offended in just about any ad someone stuck Jesus face on for marketing purposes.

 

[Mike]

Sometimes - and yes I would agree it is "sin" to use an elevator if you need the exercise (which I don't by the way - I get more than enough exercize) or are simply being lazy (sometimes the case for me).

Absolutely not - I eat red meat at most twice a month.

I spend a fair bit of time sitting, but I am aware of the health problems with that and am taking steps to try to work in a standing position. And no, I am not making this up - I have experimented with working while standing, but have gone back to the chair.

Rarely, and always using the speaker to reduce radiation to the head.

Not quite - but I would say that I consistently exercise vigorously at least one hour each and every day in the winter and 1.5 hours each and every day in spring, summer, and fall.

Yes, and I eat way more than the average North American, and am aiming for 50 grams per day.

Now this may sound snotty, but, as you can see, I "walk the walk" - no reasonable person could say that I am hypocritical in respect to matters of health. Now, to be fair, I am not as "successful" in some other areas of life, but in respect to matters of health, I will quote Paul and suggest that I am, for all intents and purposes, "blameless".

Drew, Drew, Drew...

In reading through these points in your response, I can't believe you don't see how you're coming off.

You eat red meat a few times a month. Good, but someone who eats it once a month or not at all could say you are abusing your body. Is twice a month the threshold?

You are physically active enough to be holy with your "temple". No doubt some Christians are more active than you. Do they have the right to say you are not treating your body well enough?

You use speakers that reduce radiation to your head. Could someone who doesn't use any determine you are sinning by receiving any radiation?

You aim at 50 grams of fiber/day which is way more than the average American. (Why aren't you making the comparison to the average Canadian? ) Can the person who aims at 51 grams/day look down on your lifestyle as abusive?

I can't explain it, but for some reason right now, a passage from Luke is coming to mind...

Luke 18
"<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-25700">11</sup> The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-25701">12</sup> I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’"

 

[farouk]

Since when did red meat and potatoes become sinful.

Gee, I'm a cattle rancher in Idaho...wow, who knew I was walking on the dark side!

handy:

Do you smoke, btw, or did you give up maybe?

I quit long ago, actually.

 

[handy]

Do you smoke, btw, or did you give up maybe?

No, I've never smoked a cigarette but...

I was a "passive smoker" meaning that I had the joy of growing up with two very heavy smokers who smoked in the house, car, etc. I spent the first 17 years of my life breathing in cigarette smoke on a daily basis.

And, yes, I have chronic respiratory problems, and just was diagnosed with asthma two weeks ago as a matter of fact.

The first thing the doctor asked was, "Do you smoke" and I told him "No, but...

He was training a doctor and he turned to the her and said to always be sure to ask about passive smoke with chronic respiratory patients. For the last 33 years, I've managed to avoid most smoke, but nonetheless, it had it's impact.

 

[farouk]

No, I've never smoked a cigarette but...

I was a "passive smoker" meaning that I had the joy of growing up with two very heavy smokers who smoked in the house, car, etc. I spent the first 17 years of my life breathing in cigarette smoke on a daily basis.

And, yes, I have chronic respiratory problems, and just was diagnosed with asthma two weeks ago as a matter of fact.

The first thing the doctor asked was, "Do you smoke" and I told him "No, but...

He was training a doctor and he turned to the her and said to always be sure to ask about passive smoke with chronic respiratory patients. For the last 33 years, I've managed to avoid most smoke, but nonetheless, it had it's impact.

handy:

So sorry to hear about your asthma.

Hope you can get a good inhaler.

(I reckon you'll strongly encourage your kids not to start smoking, either...)

 

[Drew]

Well, sometimes if people get too caught up in counting fiber, calories, and obcessing over what they eat and how they exerise, this could be an addiction too or OCD. Perhaps in this case it is just as bad if not worse than smoking because instead of not being overly concerned about what goes in the body, the person is obcessing over their body which makes their own body an idol.

I would suggest that for every such person overly obsessed with their health, there are 100 who err in the other direction. The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. This means we should take care of it.

 

[Drew]

“So to agree that smoking cigarettes is clearly a sin for every Christian is something I cannot do. I can accept that perhaps it has become one for you. But me? I haven’t received that revelation; and even if I did, I don’t think I could put that strong a personal conviction on someone else. Especially when not addressed in His written word.â€

Worth repeating, he said ,packing the evenings final bowl...

No actual case has been made to this effect, but you are all free to believe whatever you like.

The "personal revelation" argument is a dodge - we no more need "personal revelation" to tell us that smoking is sin than we need "personal revelation" to tell us we should not sleep with another man's wife.

1. Smoking damages the body and, in no case, has any benefits;
2. The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit;
3. Therefore, the smoker is damaging the home of the Holy Spirit

Do you really need a "personal revelation" to tell you this otherwise obvious truth?

 

[Drew]

Drew, Drew, Drew...

In reading through these points in your response, I can't believe you don't see how you're coming off.

Well, I suggest that you read the sequence of posts carefully. I was asked specific questions. So I answered. You are unfairly implying that I am "setting myself others. I was asked questions - I simply answered those questions.

You eat red meat a few times a month. Good, but someone who eats it once a month or not at all could say you are abusing your body. Is twice a month the threshold?

I was asked a question - I answered. What more do you expect?

You are physically active enough to be holy with your "temple". No doubt some Christians are more active than you. Do they have the right to say you are not treating your body well enough?

You are being entirely unfair - you presume, with no evidence at all, that I am "boasting". I was asked a question I answered it.

You aim at 50 grams of fiber/day which is way more than the average American. (Why aren't you making the comparison to the average Canadian? ) Can the person who aims at 51 grams/day look down on your lifestyle as abusive?

I use "American" since I believe most posters are Americans. Again, you have no evidence at all that I am "looking down" - I was asked a question. And I answered it. What do you want me to do? Lie?

Luke 18
"<SUP class=versenum id=en-NIV-25700>11</SUP> The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NIV-25701>12</SUP> I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’"

Your rebuke of me is entirely innappropriate - I was asked to answer a set of questions. If you do not like those answers, too bad.

 

[Who Says]

I"m a southern baptist - that means that anything that is considered a "gray area" is a sin - IF it is something that I, myself, don't do.

If it IS something that I do, I just cite the fact that it is not specifically called out in the bible, so therefore, it is NOT a sin.



oops, had the sarcasm switch on again....

You lure me to like you with the thought of pizza. I like pizza!!! I am not so sure it always likes me. LOL. Just kidding. I could not resist.

But on the subject: The problem is in how we humans approach things. Jesus told the Pharisees to first clean the inside of the cup and platter that the outside would also become clean. And in our critiquing of others we often put the emphasis on the outside rather than looking to who the person is on the inside, compassionately allowing them their struggles, even as we have our own struggles though they may be different ones.

Is cigarette smoking wrong? The answer to that is in whether or not it hurts anyone. Does second hand smoke hurt others? Then we are violating the second greatest commandment that is like the first.

Are there not also many ways we do that? Yes. Certainly so.

David asked God to pronounce him innocent of "concealed sins". By that David meant sins of his own lack of awareness. With that in mind ponder what James told us, James 4:17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." (KJV)

By now most know that cigarette smoking is bad. That does not mean that they yet know how to stop doing it.

Is it a sin for them to do it in their helplessness knowing it is bad?

Paul said that anything not done out of faith is sin. (Romans 14:23)

What are we able to judge of others? But we ought to judge ourselves.

It is difficult for us.

 

[Mike]

Your rebuke of me is entirely innappropriate - I was asked to answer a set of questions. If you do not like those answers, too bad.

Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute... You spend 10 pages rebuking smokers (I've never smoked), and then... this?

 

[pjt]

I would suggest that for every such person overly obsessed with their health, there are 100 who err in the other direction. The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. This means we should take care of it.

It does not matter how many people do a certain thing, if we say for every person that commits armed robbery there are 100 that do shoplifting. Because there is only one in a 100 who commit armed robbery that means it is okay since there are a lot more doing shop lifting?

I would agree that we need to take care of our temple but we have to remember that this body from the moment we were born has been on the path of death and decay. If we pour all our energy into taking care of this physical body, then ultimately it is a great waste because this body is dying and will eventually return to dust. No amount of exercise or nutrition is going to stop that. The reason we take care of our physical bodies is to care for our spiritual. If we are starving, we don`t have the energy to be all we can be for God. If we are sick, disabled, etc. it limits our abilities but it does not stop our abilities. Sometimes sickness and disability actually make us shine more, but when we can avoid these things we do. So our main focus should never be on the physical things of this world and that includes our bodies. Our focus should be on the eternal.

 

[jasoncran]

It does not matter how many people do a certain thing, if we say for every person that commits armed robbery there are 100 that do shoplifting. Because there is only one in a 100 who commit armed robbery that means it is okay since there are a lot more doing shop lifting?

I would agree that we need to take care of our temple but we have to remember that this body from the moment we were born has been on the path of death and decay. If we pour all our energy into taking care of this physical body, then ultimately it is a great waste because this body is dying and will eventually return to dust. No amount of exercise or nutrition is going to stop that. The reason we take care of our physical bodies is to care for our spiritual. If we are starving, we don`t have the energy to be all we can be for God. If we are sick, disabled, etc. it limits our abilities but it does not stop our abilities. Sometimes sickness and disability actually make us shine more, but when we can avoid these things we do. So our main focus should never be on the physical things of this world and that includes our bodies. Our focus should be on the eternal.

drew, you need to come to my hometown. i know plenty of the opposite of what you say.so much so that they will almost kill themselves or hurt themselves by working out too much or taking too much supplements.

 

[Drew]

Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute... You spend 10 pages rebuking smokers (I've never smoked), and then... this?

Mike, please read the thread carefully and treat others with appropriate respect. You took me to task - comparing me to a hypocritical Pharisee no less - when all I was doing was answering questions truthfully.

Now please - show some respect and treat posters fairly -you have no right to rebuke people who simply answer questions they have been posed. Suppose you have a Phd from Harvard. Now suppose you never mention this until someone asks you what educational background you have. Now its too bad if others do not have Phds from Harvard, but if you are asked where you went to school, and what degree, you have, you need to tell the truth.

That's all I did - if my dietary and health regimen happens to be more "serious"
than other posters, so be it. But to answer questions truthfully is not remotely analogous to the behaviour of the Pharisee.

I have never suggested that smokers should be smitten down. I have repeatedly agreed that smoking is an addiction and that smokers need our encouragement.

 

[Drew]

I would agree that we need to take care of our temple but we have to remember that this body from the moment we were born has been on the path of death and decay. If we pour all our energy into taking care of this physical body, then ultimately it is a great waste because this body is dying and will eventually return to dust. No amount of exercise or nutrition is going to stop that. The reason we take care of our physical bodies is to care for our spiritual.

You draw a distinction that is to be found nowhere in the Bible - the Bible never suggests that the physical is in any sense of a lesser importance than the "spiritual" - whatever you take that word to mean.

Yes, we will all decay and die. But God made creation "very good" and is in the process of redeeming it. God cares very much about his creation, so we should not behave as though the physical is not important - remember our final state is in bodies like the one Jesus had after resurrection.

It is very difficult for people to see this. Western Christians are so influenced by Greek ideas about how the "immaterial" is of higher order than the "physical".

This is simply not a Biblical idea.

 

[pjt]

You draw a distinction that is to be found nowhere in the Bible - the Bible never suggests that the physical is in any sense of a lesser importance than the "spiritual" - whatever you take that word to mean.

Yes, we will all decay and die. But God made creation "very good" and is in the process of redeeming it. God cares very much about his creation, so we should not behave as though the physical is not important - remember our final state is in bodies like the one Jesus had after resurrection.

It is very difficult for people to see this. Western Christians are so influenced by Greek ideas about how the "immaterial" is of higher order than the "physical".

This is simply not a Biblical idea.

1 Tim. 4:8 "For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come." If the physical were equal to the spiritual or inseparable from the spiritual then the physical would would be emphasized and we would be told to take care of it just the same as our spiritual well beings but that simply is not what is found in the Bible. In fact, the Bible illustrates the disposability of the body and the insignificance of the body compared to the spiritual by saying if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. If you hand causes you to sin, cut it off.

 

[Mike]

Mike, please read the thread carefully and treat others with appropriate respect. You took me to task - comparing me to a hypocritical Pharisee no less - when all I was doing was answering questions truthfully.

Now please - show some respect and treat posters fairly -you have no right to rebuke people who simply answer questions they have been posed. Suppose you have a Phd from Harvard. Now suppose you never mention this until someone asks you what educational background you have. Now its too bad if others do not have Phds from Harvard, but if you are asked where you went to school, and what degree, you have, you need to tell the truth.

That's all I did - if my dietary and health regimen happens to be more "serious"
than other posters, so be it. But to answer questions truthfully is not remotely analogous to the behaviour of the Pharisee.

I have never suggested that smokers should be smitten down. I have repeatedly agreed that smoking is an addiction and that smokers need our encouragement.

Drew, you were answering questions. Great. But my point in bringing up the Luke 18 was to compare how you look at what you're doing and feel that you're doing it "right enough". We've gone round and round in other threads where you did the same thing. The car you own isn't too big, your dwelling place is not too extravagant, etc. In answering the questions the way you did, you were drawing your own interpretation of treating your body as God would have us treat them AND say others do not.

This wasn't a slam. Don't read anything more personal into it than was intended. It served my purpose to demonstrate how you are coming off throughout this thread; not how you are. Whenever someone says they are living righteously because they do this and only have that, there are people who do more than this and have less than that.

I was just urging you not to come off as "that guy".

 

[Drew]

1 Tim. 4:8 "For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come."

I suspected you would post this text. All the writer is saying that being physically fit is relatively unimportant. I have never even talked about the issue of physical fitness. I have been talking about not abusing the body - a different matter altogether.

There is no Biblical warrant for presuming that the "physical" world is less important than what you would call the "spiritual" world. In fact, the Bible does not even support such a distinction in the first place. When people read the word "flesh", they read it is a reference to "physical". This is an error - the term instead refers to the "old nature". I can make the relevant Biblical case for this if you like.

I repeat - the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. How can smoking - which only does harm and does no good - not be sin?

In fact, the Bible illustrates the disposability of the body and the insignificance of the body compared to the spiritual by saying if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. If you hand causes you to sin, cut it off.

This is clearly a metaphor, not to be understood in any sense as suggesting that anyone damage their own body.