Conscientious Objection

[starbyfar]

I'm active duty military and I will be applying for Conscientious Objector status this year so that I can recieve a discharge from the Air Force. Is anyone here a conscientious objector or does anyone know someone who has been through the process that can offer up advice/support/prayers or some insight on the difficulties I might encounter?

 

[Vic C.]

I would imagine one of the questions you may face is "what is it you object to now that you didn't object to when you enlisted?".

 

[starbyfar]

Well yeah, of course I have to explain my stance and my beliefs. There is actually a whole slew of questions I have to answer in written format and in person. I know the procedures for CO applicants.. but I was hoping to meet people that have either been through it or know someone who has

 

[peace4all]

My brother and I have both studied it logn and hard, incase there is a draft (with this gov't you never know)

One of the best things you can do, is take part in some anti-war protests, while wearing your uniform, or give a speech to a local group, about what you saw and why you want out. If you can document it, they will let you leave.

If you don't have any record besides what you "say" that you disagree, then you are pretty much stuck.

Write letters to congressmen and women. Become an activist. Get anti war bumper stickers (http://www.fcnl.org has a free one if you wish)


Good luck, and great choice :

 

[reznwerks]

I'm active duty military and I will be applying for Conscientious Objector status this year so that I can recieve a discharge from the Air Force. Is anyone here a conscientious objector or does anyone know someone who has been through the process that can offer up advice/support/prayers or some insight on the difficulties I might encounter?

You are on active duty so you should have thought about it before. You agreed to the terms when you raised your right hand. A deal is a deal and you should fulfill it. If you are concerned about having to kill someone and having to answer for it in the hereafter you need look no further than your bible where it says you are bound by your leaders. Look again at how God used war to further his aims so you are not likely to be judged negatively in the hereafter for following orders. However if fear as your motivator then only you can deal with that.

 

[starbyfar]

peace4all,
thank you for your response! I am involved in a couple of antiwar activists organizations and i'm getting letters written from my supervisors at work who can testify to the fact that I definitely am sincere on my beliefs. Going to protests in uniform could get me court martialed.. id rather get out on my own terms.. not through a dishonorable discharge lol. Thats awesome that you're planning ahead for CO status, most people don't even know they have the ability to do so. Good luck!

reznwerks,
when i joined the military i thought it was perfectly fine for christians to kill people, but now that i've grown and stopped allowing the government to spoonfeed me lies i've decided that i will not participate in war. any christian that believes we're suppose to be bound to our leaders has lost their mind. I have ONE leader and that is Christ and he has told me through his word that I should love those that wrong me.. anyone can love those who love him, where is the difficulty in that?? maybe you should read YOUR bible a little harder. Yes, in the OT God allowed war to happen in order to further his aims.. but where is the war used by God in the NT? When did Jesus strap on the armor and join the Romans entrusting their lives to their sovereign leader? This world is not my home and I won't trade humanity for fascist patriotism. You my friend, are lost. Even the OT says thou shall not kill. When 1 or even 2 men kill its murder. But when a nation does it, it becomes a noble action? Please. That is the biggest contradiction ever. Love your neighbor as you love yourself. This doesn't simply apply to the family 2 houses down from me.. this applies to everyone I meet.. and boy, I sure wouldn't want to have my home demolished and my daughter killed in the name of America's backwards idea of freedom.

so you are not likely to be judged negatively in the hereafter for following orders.

Ok I get it. Basically, you're telling me that i'm not responsible for my actions in God's eyes because he's using the military to spread his word? I can go kill people because my superiors tell me its for the safety of the American people.. therefor i'm exempt from God's judgement on my actions. May I ask where do we draw the line? If I was ordered to kill innocent people because it would give us a strategic advantage.. would that order also not be negatively judged if I followed it? Sounds like man's law/ideals has a slightly higher importance in your life then Christs teachings do. So what about the Iraqi people. Were they following biblical principles when they trusted Saddam and his regime and took up arms against Kuwait? They were simply following orders and obeying their leaders. Which country was right in that scenario? Or does this holy government in the bible only exist in America?

 

[Lewis]

Starbyfar, I am a vet but I never went to war, but here is some stuff on Christians and war. Read 1 or 2 and let me know what you think.

http://www.thirdmill.org/newfiles/jac_a ... om.61.html

http://www.carm.org/questions/war.htm

http://www.annointed.net/Article592.html

http://www.leaderu.com/humanities/demy.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/ethics/wa ... nity.shtml

http://www.comereason.org/soc_culture/soc005.asp

http://www.lewrockwell.com/barnwell/barnwell41.html

http://www.orlutheran.com/html/chrwar.html

 

[Vic C.]

I used to be a hardcore pacifist, but slowly became a realist as I got older. So, now I am a passive realist, or is that a real pacifist? :-D

My outlook on the military and war, believe it or not, was changed by two things;

my becoming a born-again believer revealed Evil for what is was; a force to be reckoned with, both spiritually and physically.

The second thing was;

a little speech Jack Nicholson gave at the end of the film "A Few Good Men".

Someone has to defend our nation from invading forces, whether that invasion is from the outside... or inside. 8-)

 

[peace4all]

I am a pacifist, unless its needed otherwise.

THe day someoen attacks the USA and invades, is the day I will fight. Until then, I am just going to keep explainig why invading countries for no good reason, Is stupid, immoral, anti-Jesus-like-christian and downright illogical.

 

[reznwerks]

render

reznwerks,
when i joined the military i thought it was perfectly fine for christians to kill people, but now that i've grown and stopped allowing the government to spoonfeed me lies i've decided that i will not participate in war.
Who said they were lies? The media? You don't know what goes on behind closed doors and that is as it should be. You will never know and the masses will never know what really transpires.


any christian that believes we're suppose to be bound to our leaders has lost their mind.
Did Jesus lose his mind? Look at what he said of a Centurian soldier.
“I have not seen so great faith in all Israel†(Mt 8:10). Did Jesus tell the soldier to leave and get out of the military? NO! Jesus advocated violence when he said “It would have been proper for his disciples to defend His kingdom with a sword if it was an earthly kingdom†(Jn 18:36).


I have ONE leader and that is Christ and he has told me through his word that I should love those that wrong me..
This is an impossibility from both a psychological and practical point of view. If you allow someone that hates you to kill you then you will be no more, end of story. If all Christians did this throughout the years there would be no Christians left.


anyone can love those who love him, where is the difficulty in that?? maybe you should read YOUR bible a little harder.
I've read it more than you have.

Yes, in the OT God allowed war to happen in order to further his aims.. but where is the war used by God in the NT?
The bible says the God puts rulers in place. Governments are God appointed. Romans 13:1-7 1Peter 2:13-14


When did Jesus strap on the armor and join the Romans entrusting their lives to their sovereign leader? This world is not my home and I won't trade humanity for fascist patriotism.

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesars. That is what Jesus said. As a citizen of the US you joined the military and made a contract. You weren't drafted you joined. You probably weren't honest with yourself in the first place. You probably joined for the benefits and cash figuring you wouldn't ever have to kill. Would Jesus back out of a contract? Do you think Jesus would be proud of you for not fulfilling your obligation?

You my friend, are lost. Even the OT says thou shall not kill.
The original meaning is not to kill in anger. Even God used war to further his aim as you said. "I change not saith the Lord" . So you don't have to worry about him changing punishment from the N/T forward.

When 1 or even 2 men kill its murder. But when a nation does it, it becomes a noble action? Please.
Thats exactly what the bible says.
"The legitamate object of war is a more perfect peace" General Sherman.
Peace has NEVER been achieved until one side vanquished the other. You can't find one example of nations that finally called it quits without one side beating the other. Who do you trust to keep the peace, the US or some other country?
God calls men who rule by evil and "abomination" .
That is the biggest contradiction ever. Love your neighbor as you love yourself. This doesn't simply apply to the family 2 houses down from me.. this applies to everyone I meet.. and boy, I sure wouldn't want to have my home demolished and my daughter killed in the name of America's backwards idea of freedom.
God uses armies for judgement on wicked nations and that is what is referred to as the "Lords" battle . 1 Sa 18:25

so you are not likely to be judged negatively in the hereafter for following orders.

Ok I get it. Basically, you're telling me that i'm not responsible for my actions in God's eyes because he's using the military to spread his word?
Thats pretty much it and I referred you to the biblical verses to back it up.

I can go kill people because my superiors tell me its for the safety of the American people.. therefor i'm exempt from God's judgement on my actions.

YEP
May I ask where do we draw the line?
When your superiors tell you to cease fire.

If I was ordered to kill innocent people because it would give us a strategic advantage.. would that order also not be negatively judged if I followed it?
This is the military and you are in a need to know information position only. Who are you to decide who is innocent or not. You don't know squat of what goes on and what information is known to those higher up. It is not for you to know. You joined and it is up to you to follow orders unless it is so grossly unreal for you to follow through. These instances are extremely rare and isolated as to almost guarantee that this would not be an issue for you.

Sounds like man's law/ideals has a slightly higher importance in your life then Christs teachings do.
Thats what the bible says about war. It's real you joined you made a promise. As I said do you think Jesus would be proud of you for backing out? I can see him now when you are in heaven. Jesus introduces you as so and so who backed out of the promise he made to his country while those that went , served and died are standing alongside looking at you. Will you be proud of yourself?

So what about the Iraqi people.
What about the Iraqi people? There are a lot of people in the world that are in dire straits because of their political leaders. It's not our fault.

Were they following biblical principles when they trusted Saddam and his regime and took up arms against Kuwait?
They don't follow the bible. They follow the Quran which said it was a holy war etc. They had their reasons for invading Kuwait one of which was Kuwait was originally part of Iraq. I can follow that line of reasoning can't you?

They were simply following orders and obeying their leaders. Which country was right in that scenario?
Well hindsight is always 20/20. What if the US didn't object? Then Iraq would be owner of a new country and the US wouldn't be fighting Iraq II.

Or does this holy government in the bible only exist in America?

There isn't a whole lot of Christians in Iraq. So I guess your beef is with the US. You claim to be a Christian and follow the bible . I showed where you are in error from a biblical standpoint. More and more I feel you are using the bible as an excuse for something more personal.