Converting to Islam...Question for Christians

[Danus]

As a Christian.......could you convert to Islam for the same or similar reasons this guy gives? Why, and or why not?

[youtube:ilu9i4m4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfmERwdaT5w[/youtube:ilu9i4m4]

 

[jasoncran]

having not watched the video, but knowing islam, i choose death. i hope the lord will give me the strength to endure the slow death.

 

[Danus]

having not watched the video, but knowing islam, i choose death. i hope the lord will give me the strength to endure the slow death.

His name is Joshua Evans. He claims to have been a youth minister/Christian. He has several videos explaining his conversion to Islam, but he contradicts himself in so much as where he started from in his beliefs when you start to go through the videos.

I contend that no one who truly accepts Christ could be drawn into this, or any other religion....key phrase "truly accepts Christ". However, many of his thoughts on why he left Christianity tend to square well with some thoughts I hear from people who claim Christianity as he claims he once did.

 

[jasoncran]

kinda like the athiest who claimed there were a christian beforehand

are ya glad that when we truly repent we get to expercience christ, and once we have then its really impossible to leave him. we may stray but our lives will be so hellish that we will return.

thus hebrews 6. if we did turn from christ we cant come back for that is the same sin as blasphemy of the holy ghost.

 

[Danus]

Exactly.

Interestingly, the reasons he gives for "leaving" the Christian faith are some of the very reasons I am a Christian. Hummm How does one leave something they claim in their heart and turn those foundations around for something far less substantive in it's origin? Unless, they never really understood it, or believed it to begin with.


Here is another video. Same guy, but listen to what he says hear about 9/11. Also he claims to have accepted Islam in 1998, prior to 9/11, but the original video was posted in 2008. In fact I can't find a video among the many he has posted prior to 2008. I can't tell how old he is, but let's say he's in his later 20's from the looks of him. Based on what he claims, he's been a Muslim for 13 years and prior to that he was a Christian Youth Minister. even if he is 30 years old that would have made him 17 at the time he was a Youth Minister. In other videos he talks about converting when he was in college and says that when he was in High School he was a none religious party animal.
[youtube:3h9m77d9]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LxSbfZsZ6w[/youtube:3h9m77d9]

 

[Pard]

No, I'd die. Actually, I think I literally would. You see, I asked God for Him to kill me before I ever walked away from Him.

That and I know people who have become Christians after being raised Muslims. We have talked about this and they have all agreed that Islam is nothing but evil and that anyone who wishes to please God would steer away from it. Keep in mind those are the words of Muslims, not myself.

Actually, one Muslim friend is a Christian and he has to hide his new found faith in Jesus from his parents because they would disown him and kick him out. In fact they have already told him this, because an older sibling of his converted. However, he goes to church every Sunday, and youth group and has been baptized. But he must be a Christian in fear, and in America at that!

 

[JudaicChristian]

He is either not with the program, or he never was a Christian. Some times people make false claims to promote some things.

 

[Mike]

I'm becoming more and more convinced that people, especially on the internet, even more especially here on this board, who claim they were Christians and converted it Islam, are not being truthful. There is probably no way to prove either way, so this is just a gut-feeling of mine.

I could go on a Muslim site and fabricate a story about how I was brought up Muslim and saw the error of my ways. (I'd have to do a lot more research on their faith to pull it off) This would be an effective way to take the back door into evangelism. Have them believe I was in their place once but found a much greater Truth in Christianity. This seems as though it would be more effective in reaching some people. The old "I used to be in your place... I know how you feel... I understand your distrust..." But I could never cloak myself in a lie and deceive people.

So, I have a theory on the agenda of people who claim to have believed what I believe but now are "enlightened". Things are not as they would seem. To truly know Jesus Christ, and to walk away from Him? Completely abandon Him for another faith and leave Him behind after He's dwelt in my soul? Nope. Never. And I don't buy it when people claim it. :gah

 

[jasoncran]

in your own words" i have a standard for prophets, and i felt that islam had that same standard"

looking for your truth, not the truth.

i wasnt looking for god. trust me he was the last thing i wanted to contemplate till one day he allowed me to put myself in a bad situation.

 

[JudaicChristian]

I'm becoming more and more convinced that people, especially on the internet, even more especially here on this board, who claim they were Christians and converted it Islam, are not being truthful. :gah

Muslims are not known for their honesty. As a matter of fact it is part of their religion to lie in order to promote Islam.

 

[jasoncran]

baptist and non charmistics on the gifts :bigfrown

i have operated in the gift in prohecy, and its a very serious thing,not to be taken lightly.

 

[Danus]

I kinda think that post was a little swipe at me? I may be wrong because Ive never seen Mike swipe at me like that.

I realy was christian at one point, I can accept that you guys say I never REALY accepted christ, even though I thought I did. That argument is realy unprovable because you cant see what was in my heart, as I cant see whats in yours, but I think that argument makes you guys feel better when you see a former christian renounce christianity and choose Islam.

My agenda has never been to convert you guys, I originally came to the site and just watched, I didnt post for a while. My honest business here is 1) try and fathom why you guys beleive things that I find so unbeleivable (and you all have helped me with this understanding) 2) many non-Muslims on this forum speak of Islam as experts, and I wish to clarify some misconceptions regarding Islam - not to draw you in - but to show you we too are people like you. I had a very difficult time walking away from Jesus(AS) as my lord and saviour, I did feel bad for a while for even questioning it. but in the end I felt I was truly following him by accepting Islam, I felt that if he was standing in front of me, he would tell me to stop worshipping him and follow God alone and worship God in His Uniquness and Oneness.

After joing this site I have felt very welcomed and have learned a great deal on christianity from a christian perpective. I dont know how I could prove that I was once a christian, I also dont know why my backstory is suspect (I can understand the guy in the videos back story being suspect, I thought the same thing about his age and him being a youth pastor).

I hope Im still welcome here, and maybe I have been a litle debateful latly with the trinity talk, so Ill back off of that and I apologize. If my oppinions and comments are not welcome on this board anymore I will not post again.

As far as the comments by the guy in the video, there the same comments Ive heard from Muslims converts, as well as people who left christianity but did not choose Islam.

Mujahid Abdullah, the OP was intended as a question for other Christians, but I'm glad your here. It's just a discussion, however you do fit the bill for topic of Christian turned Muslim......I find that odd.

I don't have a problem with you claiming Islam, but I do question your previous Christian faith. In fact your own words lend to my suspicion of your claim to Christianity.

My honest business here is 1) try and fathom why you guys beleive things that I find so unbeleivable (and you all have helped me with this understanding)

If you find it so unbelievable then how did you ever claim it in the first place? Did you claim it then read the Quran and all the sudden think the Quran made more seance than the bible, or is it possible that you did not truly believe the bible to begin with and so the Quran sort of validated your suspicions? Also, why do you feel the need to even say you where once "Christian"? Why not just say your Muslim?

I can't help but think that you, and other Muslims like you and Joshua in the video, feel that by saying you where once Christian that, that lends some sort of credibility to your decision to turn to Islam, or that such a statement allows you to discuss your religion with Christians in an attempt to sway them to your faith, which your free to do. After all religion is a good topic for debate. Truth exist on it own and people should be free to make such choices. At least that's what God himself would agree with. After all we do have free will.

Joshua, in the video, is deceptive to me. He's all over the internet. Got his own web site and tons of videos where he points out that he was once a Christian, but if you watch enough of them you'll find where he contradicts himself about his conversion, age, time-line of events and such. Nothing adds up.

 

[Mike]

I kinda think that post was a little swipe at me? I may be wrong because Ive never seen Mike swipe at me like that.

I realy was christian at one point, I can accept that you guys say I never REALY accepted christ, even though I thought I did. That argument is realy unprovable because you cant see what was in my heart, as I cant see whats in yours, but I think that argument makes you guys feel better when you see a former christian renounce christianity and choose Islam.

My agenda has never been to convert you guys, I originally came to the site and just watched, I didnt post for a while. My honest business here is 1) try and fathom why you guys beleive things that I find so unbeleivable (and you all have helped me with this understanding)

MA, I did have you and others in mind when I made this post. If you want to call it a swipe at you, okay, but I wouldn't say "swipe". As I said of those who claim to have converted, and Danus somewhat echoed my thought, my gut feeling is that you were never a Christian, and that you are using this experienced "conversion" as a way to be more impactful with Christians here. In fact, my gut feeling is that you are not much of what you say. Looking back at one of your original posts,

I converted form Christianity,I was a devout christian, but I had some issues with the Trinity and other issues I dont wish to go into (so as not to cause a debate).

I studied Judaism for a while, but rejected it after reading the talmud and seeing the depiction of gentiles as sub human.

Finally I studied Islam, and it called to me, made sence to me.

You're right. There's no way I can confirm my suspicion, and there's no way for you to prove the history you claim you have, so as I say, it's a gut feeling. So back in the beginning you stated that you were not only a Christian, but a "devout" Christian. If I were a "devout" anything prior to accepting Christ, I don't see myself engaging in a discussion board to "try and fathom why" people on that board believe what I used to be devout about. This just doesn't wash with me.

I wasn't combative with my previous post, and I purposefully didn't point the finger at anyone. I'll continue to avoid being combative or abusive. And I won't chase you around the board and make an issue of this. I might bring it up if I see you using a story of conversion to justify your faith, but even then, I'll try not to be combative.

 

[Danus]

Mujahid Abdullah, the OP was intended as a question for other Christians, but I'm glad your here. It's just a discussion, however you do fit the bill for topic of Christian turned Muslim......I find that odd.

I didnt intend to post here, I was pretty intrigued by the OPs questin though, I only posted because it seemed that Mike was refering to me in his post regarding his "suspicion".

I don't have a problem with you claiming Islam, but I do question your previous Christian faith. In fact your own words lend to my suspicion of your claim to Christianity.

Do you suspect I was ever christian (at least in name), or do you suspect I was never a christian, and always a Muslim, as if I am lying about my life?

[quote:1nuh0qq4]If you find it so unbelievable then how did you ever claim it in the first place? Did you claim it then read the Quran and all the sudden think the Quran made more seance than the bible, or is it possible that you did not truly believe the bible to begin with and so the Quran sort of validated your suspicions? Also, why do you feel the need to even say you where once "Christian"? Why not just say your Muslim?

I found it unbelivable because I had questioned christianity, and from my perspective, things were so incorrect. I was young when I converted (16) and prior to that age, I had simply accepted what I was taught. At around 15 I started my adult education in christianity, I began to dutifuly study and learn christian docterine an beleifs. At this point I began to wonder if christianity was false, and endeavored to research the other major religions, focusing on the Abrahamic faiths. I admit that I had some preconceived beleifs, taught to me by christians, but not held by all christians (The idea of Prophethood, not speaking in tongues, and others). I may have been drawn to Islam initially because it upheld my pre-conceived notions. But this was not my only reason for choosing Isalm, and did not justify me abandoning Christ. Before my conversion I did not feel any special feeling towards the Quran over the Bible, I was looking at both with skepticism.

I usually dont tell people I was christian before (most just assume when they meet me in person), but many times on this forum, I was talked to as if i was an Arab or a foreigner. So I clarified that I used to be a christian to put a context on our conversations, also it is a major aspect of my life and I find no reason to hide it from you guys. I mention the same thing on Islamic forums, so it wasnt a strategical move on my part stating my previous beleif.

I can't help but think that you, and other Muslims like you and Joshua in the video, feel that by saying you where once Christian that, that lends some sort of credibility to your decision to turn to Islam, or that such a statement allows you to discuss your religion with Christians in an attempt to sway them to your faith, which your free to do. After all religion is a good topic for debate. Truth exist on it own and people should be free to make such choices. At least that's what God himself would agree with. After all we do have free will.

I never realy saw my announcement of my previous faith that way. I actually do not feel that my words on a christian forum will sway any christian members, just as if you came on an Islamic forum, I wouldnt be afraid some people may adopt christianity. The enviroment of a christian forum is not the place for dawah. However, I can see why you look at me with a skeptics eye it makes sense, and I never realy even thought my actions would be construed this way.

Joshua, in the video, is deceptive to me. He's all over the internet. Got his own web site and tons of videos where he points out that he was once a Christian, but if you watch enough of them you'll find where he contradicts himself about his conversion, age, time-line of events and such. Nothing adds up

The guy in the video , even from my point of view, is clearly using his former beleifs as a tool to gain the trust of christians. I wouldnt do this, only because, as a former christian, I met Muslim converts who did the same to me. And when they did it, I stoped listening to the words they were saying because I saw it as an afront to my religion, much like you guys may be feeling, and I am just realizing this.

I look at this way, if a former Muslim christian convert came and spoke to me about christianity, and use our shared islamic experience as a way to buddy up to me or gain my trust, I would see him as a apostate and a fool for renouncing Islam. I have actually experienced this so im speaking from experience. I wouldnt trust his words, and I am sure he wouldnt have anything to tell me that I havent already heard and rebutted, so it would be fruitless. I feel the same way here, I am trying to convert anyone, I do chalenge some of your beleifs, and maybe I should stop and go back to simply learning, which is what Im going to do.[/quote:1nuh0qq4]

I appreciate your cantor. I welcome your presents here and any challenges to belief, or desire to learn from each other.

I have to say that I can not accept that you where once a Christian in the sense that you ever really embraced the faith. I feel especially stronger in that sense about Joshua in the videos.

It is difficult to fathom a westerner raised in a Judeo-Christian culture embracing Islam, but it's not improbable. I've known few Muslims personally, but of the ones I have known all where/are of middle-eastern decent, so it's only natural that someone would assume the same of you in a forum such as this.

I just think you might gain more respect from Christians if you dropped that you where once Christian and replace it with the fact that you come from a judeo-Christian background or home or raised as such. Otherwise the implication is that you once accepted Christ in heart, but dropped that for Islam. It does not pass the test for those of us who have accepted Christ in full measure.

In any case, glade your hear and i look forward to more discussions with you.

 

[Ahuli]

I'm becoming more and more convinced that people, especially on the internet, even more especially here on this board, who claim they were Christians and converted it Islam, are not being truthful. There is probably no way to prove either way, so this is just a gut-feeling of mine.

I could go on a Muslim site and fabricate a story about how I was brought up Muslim and saw the error of my ways. (I'd have to do a lot more research on their faith to pull it off) This would be an effective way to take the back door into evangelism. Have them believe I was in their place once but found a much greater Truth in Christianity. This seems as though it would be more effective in reaching some people. The old "I used to be in your place... I know how you feel... I understand your distrust..." But I could never cloak myself in a lie and deceive people.

So, I have a theory on the agenda of people who claim to have believed what I believe but now are "enlightened". Things are not as they would seem. To truly know Jesus Christ, and to walk away from Him? Completely abandon Him for another faith and leave Him behind after He's dwelt in my soul? Nope. Never. And I don't buy it when people claim it. :gah

Congratulations, this is 100% on target. Anyone who could leave the Christ for a scoundrel like mahomet and a nameless god like allah, was never in the least involved with Christ or knew HIM.

Now I understand why Majumid ???? cannot answer the questions in the thread "I'm Curious". He does not know the answers, because he has not taken the time to educate himself in islam.

 

[Cheyenne K]

I could never convert to Islam, even for all of the reasons this man has listed. It was not Allah who answered my prayers or loved me when I strayed into sin. It is not Allah who has provided me with miracle after miracle, or done any remote thing. It is not Allah whose Spirit I can feel inside of me and it is not Allah to who I am here to glorify. However, the Lord has provided me with this and more.

And while he may have come from a Christian background, I do not believe he was ever a Christian. To be Christian is to accept Christ as Savior, God as Lord, and to be filled with the Holy Spirit. This alone would be enough evidence that the faith is correct; he would have had no need to search for truth in Islam or any other religion.

 

[jasoncran]

ma. you on a jewish forum. the jews have a saying that you should have known.

i wont say that one here. the animosity between arabs and jews will be around for some time. though some may agree to peace.

i wasnt raised to hate arabs by my dad, actually he believes in two state solution, i think.

 

[jasoncran]

who said jews actually practice the real thing, they seldom do, if they did, the liberal left wouldnt be soo big in america.
nor would they support abortion or gay rights.

 

[Ahuli]

I could never convert to Islam, even for all of the reasons this man has listed. It was not Allah who answered my prayers or loved me when I strayed into sin. It is not Allah who has provided me with miracle after miracle, or done any remote thing. It is not Allah whose Spirit I can feel inside of me and it is not Allah to who I am here to glorify. However, the Lord has provided me with this and more.

And while he may have come from a Christian background, I do not believe he was ever a Christian. To be Christian is to accept Christ as Savior, God as Lord, and to be filled with the Holy Spirit. This alone would be enough evidence that the faith is correct; he would have had no need to search for truth in Islam or any other religion.

God bless you!

 

[7ruth]

No.

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

These verses are mostly open-ended, meaning that the historical context is not embedded within the surrounding text - as are nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Qur'an.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. This proclivity toward violence - and Muhammad's own martial legacy - has left a trail of blood and tears across world history.

Qur'an (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

I just find it hard to believe in a God that promotes any verse like that.