Annointed1980
Member
Hello all!
This is my first post here, so I believe I should give a brief introduction: I am a 31 year old Certified Pastoral Counselor that is active in ministry outreach programs that help apply God's teachings to people suffering from Drug Addictions, Lost Teens, Damaged Marriages, and Broken Homes. Which makes my appearance here pretty ironic. However, it is easy to offer third party suggestions and resolution ideas to others, but it is sometimes difficult to advise oneself.
I will warn you that this post is going to be long; so as to provide one with the most details possible. I will break this into three sections, a brief back story, the current conflict, and questions I have for resolution.
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About 2 years ago I was divorced from my first marriage. My wife (though I loved her dearly, as she was a former best friend of 9 years) was an unbeliever. She claimed Christianity but only went to church 2 or 3 times the whole time I had known her (1 Easter, 2 Christmases). After only a year of marriage (which occurred for the wrong reasons to begin with, which is another story) she began to hallucinate that I was sleeping with every human being under the sun and then forced me out (threatening to lie to police saying I had harmed/was going to harm our children, well technically her children) then she left the state and began dating a man she met online.
After taking quite a long amount of time to recuperate and center myself back on my relationship with God (which became more intimate than ever) I finally decided it could be time to let another in, let's face it, I'm not getting any younger.
Finally, I met a very sweet Christian woman online with a fiery faith (Praise God!), and couldn't help but begin to develop feelings faster than normal. We talk often, discuss God's word, enjoy many similar things, and pray together. We have een discussing a completely church based courtship and marriage. I really feel that God is telling me that this is the one.
Up until last night, everything has been amazing between us! However, last night we had that dreaded "first big fight." I don't really know how it went to where it did honestly, but one moment I was simply discussing that she did something hurtful and left me feeling disrespected, the next thing I know she is running all over the board.
This is what happened:
We were having a typical causal discussion on the phone. Everything seemed fine. She has this thing she does, which she believes is "quick witty humor," where she will sarcastically mock you once in a while. It has never been much of a problem until last night. She did it 3 or 4 times consecutively while I was being serious with her. Finally, I felt the need to speak up. I made sure that I kept my voice gentle, and said, "Sweetie, I know you are trying to be funny, but that last little mocking comment you made left me feeling pretty disrespected. I'm not angry, but I would appreciate it if you didn't disrespect me like."
Her response, in the most mocking of tones was, "blah blah blah - disrespect me like that!"
Then I said, "Look, I don't know how you handle yourself with others, but when we are having a conversation I would appreciate you don't disrespect me. Have I ever said anything to you that was not spoken lovingly or respectfully? (30 seconds of silence here) Then I would take that as a 'no,' and would hope you'll no longer disrespect me, because one thing I do demand of others I care for is their respect."
Her response was, "blah blah blah - care for others demand respect."
My response was, "Wow..."
Her response, "Yeah wow, how am I disrespecting you, I have done the same thing with all my friends and family for years and none of them ever mentioned they felt I was being disrespectful at all?"
I said, "Well I suppose that would be like beauty, it is in the eye of the beholder."
She says, "la de daaa eye of the beholder... maybe you should start looking through the other eye."
My response then was, "I don't know how our conversation went from pleasant to hurtful and disrespectful, but I am withdrawing from this conversation at this time to think about this and pray over it. I hope you will do the same, good night." In which I hanged up my phone.
-----[7 hours pass]-----
This morning she started texting me; this is the entirety of those texts:
She: [6am]So I don't want you to think I am mad at you because I will just tell you that I am. I thought last night you were very rude to me and very angry at me and that is apparent by the way you spoke to me. First of all you did not tell me in a loving manner and I felt you were very harsh and if you plan to continue anything in the ministry please try to have a better plan instead of attacking people in anger. You might think you weren't very harsh or mean but it came off like that. I'm sorry I feel I was disrespecting you but I don't try to be rude, I'm not an *ss like that. I'm sorry if it comes off like that all I can say is that I can work on that but the way you came off last night brought me to tears. I hope these aren't your intentions to make me cry or anything. I know you're older and have more life lessons but you don't have to treat me like a child or talk down to me. I'm just really hurt and sadly closing up to you. You hurt me last night, I don't know how to say it any clearer and when you hung up the phone on me that hurt beyond words can really say. I like you Shane, I think your great but that side of you last night I didn't like that way you came across. How you think you came across and in reality are two different things. When I genuinely asked what I could do, you were so harsh it really hurt. I don't want your apologies I can honestly say I don't. I am just really broken and I feel like I can't trust you right now and that I was going to open up to you I'm afraid you'll be harsh. And do you think with me loving God if I was doing something disrespectful on purpose? No I wasn't aware: all in all not the right way to tell someone they are hurting you. I promise, you'd give more respect to stranger than to me last night. Thank you.
Myself: [8:30am]Apology accepted. Sorry for my delayed response, my phone was still silenced from last night. If requesting that you speak to me with some respect during intimate conversations, and not hurt my feelings, is mean..? Then I am mean I guess, so be it. How, may I ask, did I talk to you like a child? It would seem you're scolding me like one now. It would also seem your are attempting to manipulate me into forgetting what you did, blatantly might I add, while trying to get me to believe I did something I did not. I also will not take part in any head games. I'm not stupid. I do remember what happened, I was there. There is a gigantic difference between anger, emotional response, and simply not willing to be disrespected.
She: I didn't disrespect you, you took it that way. I felt like you were attacking me in anger. All I am saying is if you really felt like that you should have approached it in a different way. I don't think you handled it like an adult.
Myself: I was not attacking you, nor was I angry. I prayed on it, and sought the counsel of our associate pastor and another brother already. I believe I handled myself well in respect to feeling hurt. I did not use harsh words or slander and merely explained how I felt and why. This is simply mature communication among spiritually mature people. [Psalm 46:10, Proverbs 3:30, Matthew 18:15, Luke 17:3-4, 1 timothy 5:1-2, 1 Peter 3:8] Your apologies have sharp thorns.
She: I thought you could have handled it better. Seriously you want to be a minister you can't railroad people and I felt you didn't do any of it out of love.
Myself: 1 Peter 2:1-2; and now I fear you are judging my heart.
She: I am not apologizing and I told you not to apologize to me.
So I am rude and disrespectful, but you are mean and railroad people I could get kinder words from strangers off the street!
Myself: Sometimes, truth, spoken out of love seems hash because we may not want to hear it. That does not make it any less loving or true for that matter. Every one of God's prophets and disciples, even Christ Himself, rebuked or chastised one or many people, who in their arrogance or fleshly pursuits, took great offense. Does this mean their words were any less loving or true? If truth or love was based upon audience response the Bible never would have been written... or would at least be halved in size and content.
A brother chastised me about a week or two ago. My first response was haughty and offended, but I prayed and meditated on his counsel. In the end I realized he was right and asked his forgiveness and God's. He and I are closer now because he dared to tell me something about myself that no other had. It showed he loved me, though my first emotional response was the opposite.
It takes more love to accuse a friend than to smile at them when they've wronged. Any hypocrite or backstabber can do that.
She: yeah the way you accuse me you might have had good intentions but your delivery was wrong.
Myself: Again I withdraw, I won't say any more on the subject since you think I am "railroading" you. Take more time to think about it. Right now this is what the sum of your responses say to me:
"I wasn't disrespecting you because I say so. I can speak to you abusively and put you down all I want while trying to make this point. Mocking others is not disrespectful when I do it, your just taking it that way. You didn't point this out to me because you care about me/us, you did it because you're mean and coercive. You should quit your ministry because your to mean and coercive."
That about sum up your viewpoint?
She: I don't know who belittled you or put you down in the past but you just let out all your anger on me. But I apologize for my actions and you don't have to worry about about me ever saying anything else to you.
Myself: I have no anger for you or anyone of the past either. I would have to volley said accusation right back. Your words not mine. If you wish to no longer speak to me that would be your choice I could not change such.
She: I can take criticism just fine, that's not the case. If you think that then what you want? But I am saying is the way you went about it I don't agree with.
-----[About 4 hours later 1pm-ish]-----
Myself: If you choose to see things that are not and lie to yourself, I cannot stop that. I will pray for us and for you. I have no anger towards you at all. Only the request that you don't disrespect me. If that is to much to ask I don't know what to say to you. It seems not even my point of view or argument is respected.
She: I was wrong, I guess I'm a b****; I have nothing left to say and you won't have to worry about me saying anything.
Idk, maybe you should go find someone else that's not as b****y as me then you'll be happy k?
Cause maybe I am just to rude for you and all.
Myself: I still don't understand, and I never called you that. What part of the way I went about this is wrong? I spoke respectfully with concern for your thoughts and feelings. I spoke from the heart. I prayed for guidance, I didn't involve my emotions. I was as compassionate and forgiving as I could be... What more do you want?
She: You can't even understand my point of view because in your head your right... okay your right YOUR RIGHT
My feelings huh? Those went out the window along a lot of other things.
Myself: I'm trying to understand your point of view but it seems to keep changing. It seems you're just ranting and blaming me for your actions though. What is it I am supposed to understand? Am I supposed to be convinced I felt things I didn't or meant things I didn't?
She: I'm not blaming you at all.
Myself: If we were nearby I'd suggest we seek spiritual mediation right now, but unfortunately we aren't. I guess it's up to you. I suppose if you can't or simply refuse to respect me, and seek a man you can walk all over, I am not he.
She: Idk maybe you should go find someone else that's not as b****y as me then you'll be happy k?
Myself: These are all your words not mine.
She: You are not at all who I thought you were and I guess I'm sorry that I'm not who you thought I was.
Myself: I am going to politely step back from this argument again. I am very sorry you feel this way. I hope you know and understand I do not mean to hurt or offend you, but it seems that you are quite hurt and offended. I don't know how it got to this. I'm withdrawing again to get some prayer and counsel on this matter. I'll not so easily give up on you, but I don't know what to do if the things I am saying are being received in an unintended manner. I still believe in you even if you don't believe in me. Allow me to speak for myself please. I don't need anyone else speaking or thinking for me. Maybe I'll talk to you later, maybe not. We'll see I'll leave it in God's hands.
-----[About 1 1/2hrs later 3:00pm-ish]-----
She: I'm sorry it got this far.
I'm really sad now
Well next time I won't worry cause we aren't together so it doesn't really matter if we stop talking or not.
Myself: Seriously? Don't you think you're blowing this a little out of proportion? We didn't talk for maybe two hours... Another thorny apology it would seem.
She: Why would I try to make you forget the whole respect issue... I'm not trying to play head games or anything... HAHA you don't understand at all.
Wow you accuse me of so much.
Myself: Huh, what is this in response to?
She: Playing head games trying to make you forget.
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That is where I stopped interacting with this conversation because I feel completely lost with what to do or how to respond anymore. Any advice would be appreciated, if I haven't tried it, I'll give it a try.
This is my first post here, so I believe I should give a brief introduction: I am a 31 year old Certified Pastoral Counselor that is active in ministry outreach programs that help apply God's teachings to people suffering from Drug Addictions, Lost Teens, Damaged Marriages, and Broken Homes. Which makes my appearance here pretty ironic. However, it is easy to offer third party suggestions and resolution ideas to others, but it is sometimes difficult to advise oneself.
I will warn you that this post is going to be long; so as to provide one with the most details possible. I will break this into three sections, a brief back story, the current conflict, and questions I have for resolution.
------------------------------------------------------------
About 2 years ago I was divorced from my first marriage. My wife (though I loved her dearly, as she was a former best friend of 9 years) was an unbeliever. She claimed Christianity but only went to church 2 or 3 times the whole time I had known her (1 Easter, 2 Christmases). After only a year of marriage (which occurred for the wrong reasons to begin with, which is another story) she began to hallucinate that I was sleeping with every human being under the sun and then forced me out (threatening to lie to police saying I had harmed/was going to harm our children, well technically her children) then she left the state and began dating a man she met online.
After taking quite a long amount of time to recuperate and center myself back on my relationship with God (which became more intimate than ever) I finally decided it could be time to let another in, let's face it, I'm not getting any younger.
Finally, I met a very sweet Christian woman online with a fiery faith (Praise God!), and couldn't help but begin to develop feelings faster than normal. We talk often, discuss God's word, enjoy many similar things, and pray together. We have een discussing a completely church based courtship and marriage. I really feel that God is telling me that this is the one.
Up until last night, everything has been amazing between us! However, last night we had that dreaded "first big fight." I don't really know how it went to where it did honestly, but one moment I was simply discussing that she did something hurtful and left me feeling disrespected, the next thing I know she is running all over the board.
This is what happened:
We were having a typical causal discussion on the phone. Everything seemed fine. She has this thing she does, which she believes is "quick witty humor," where she will sarcastically mock you once in a while. It has never been much of a problem until last night. She did it 3 or 4 times consecutively while I was being serious with her. Finally, I felt the need to speak up. I made sure that I kept my voice gentle, and said, "Sweetie, I know you are trying to be funny, but that last little mocking comment you made left me feeling pretty disrespected. I'm not angry, but I would appreciate it if you didn't disrespect me like."
Her response, in the most mocking of tones was, "blah blah blah - disrespect me like that!"
Then I said, "Look, I don't know how you handle yourself with others, but when we are having a conversation I would appreciate you don't disrespect me. Have I ever said anything to you that was not spoken lovingly or respectfully? (30 seconds of silence here) Then I would take that as a 'no,' and would hope you'll no longer disrespect me, because one thing I do demand of others I care for is their respect."
Her response was, "blah blah blah - care for others demand respect."
My response was, "Wow..."
Her response, "Yeah wow, how am I disrespecting you, I have done the same thing with all my friends and family for years and none of them ever mentioned they felt I was being disrespectful at all?"
I said, "Well I suppose that would be like beauty, it is in the eye of the beholder."
She says, "la de daaa eye of the beholder... maybe you should start looking through the other eye."
My response then was, "I don't know how our conversation went from pleasant to hurtful and disrespectful, but I am withdrawing from this conversation at this time to think about this and pray over it. I hope you will do the same, good night." In which I hanged up my phone.
-----[7 hours pass]-----
This morning she started texting me; this is the entirety of those texts:
She: [6am]So I don't want you to think I am mad at you because I will just tell you that I am. I thought last night you were very rude to me and very angry at me and that is apparent by the way you spoke to me. First of all you did not tell me in a loving manner and I felt you were very harsh and if you plan to continue anything in the ministry please try to have a better plan instead of attacking people in anger. You might think you weren't very harsh or mean but it came off like that. I'm sorry I feel I was disrespecting you but I don't try to be rude, I'm not an *ss like that. I'm sorry if it comes off like that all I can say is that I can work on that but the way you came off last night brought me to tears. I hope these aren't your intentions to make me cry or anything. I know you're older and have more life lessons but you don't have to treat me like a child or talk down to me. I'm just really hurt and sadly closing up to you. You hurt me last night, I don't know how to say it any clearer and when you hung up the phone on me that hurt beyond words can really say. I like you Shane, I think your great but that side of you last night I didn't like that way you came across. How you think you came across and in reality are two different things. When I genuinely asked what I could do, you were so harsh it really hurt. I don't want your apologies I can honestly say I don't. I am just really broken and I feel like I can't trust you right now and that I was going to open up to you I'm afraid you'll be harsh. And do you think with me loving God if I was doing something disrespectful on purpose? No I wasn't aware: all in all not the right way to tell someone they are hurting you. I promise, you'd give more respect to stranger than to me last night. Thank you.
Myself: [8:30am]Apology accepted. Sorry for my delayed response, my phone was still silenced from last night. If requesting that you speak to me with some respect during intimate conversations, and not hurt my feelings, is mean..? Then I am mean I guess, so be it. How, may I ask, did I talk to you like a child? It would seem you're scolding me like one now. It would also seem your are attempting to manipulate me into forgetting what you did, blatantly might I add, while trying to get me to believe I did something I did not. I also will not take part in any head games. I'm not stupid. I do remember what happened, I was there. There is a gigantic difference between anger, emotional response, and simply not willing to be disrespected.
She: I didn't disrespect you, you took it that way. I felt like you were attacking me in anger. All I am saying is if you really felt like that you should have approached it in a different way. I don't think you handled it like an adult.
Myself: I was not attacking you, nor was I angry. I prayed on it, and sought the counsel of our associate pastor and another brother already. I believe I handled myself well in respect to feeling hurt. I did not use harsh words or slander and merely explained how I felt and why. This is simply mature communication among spiritually mature people. [Psalm 46:10, Proverbs 3:30, Matthew 18:15, Luke 17:3-4, 1 timothy 5:1-2, 1 Peter 3:8] Your apologies have sharp thorns.
She: I thought you could have handled it better. Seriously you want to be a minister you can't railroad people and I felt you didn't do any of it out of love.
Myself: 1 Peter 2:1-2; and now I fear you are judging my heart.
She: I am not apologizing and I told you not to apologize to me.
So I am rude and disrespectful, but you are mean and railroad people I could get kinder words from strangers off the street!
Myself: Sometimes, truth, spoken out of love seems hash because we may not want to hear it. That does not make it any less loving or true for that matter. Every one of God's prophets and disciples, even Christ Himself, rebuked or chastised one or many people, who in their arrogance or fleshly pursuits, took great offense. Does this mean their words were any less loving or true? If truth or love was based upon audience response the Bible never would have been written... or would at least be halved in size and content.
A brother chastised me about a week or two ago. My first response was haughty and offended, but I prayed and meditated on his counsel. In the end I realized he was right and asked his forgiveness and God's. He and I are closer now because he dared to tell me something about myself that no other had. It showed he loved me, though my first emotional response was the opposite.
It takes more love to accuse a friend than to smile at them when they've wronged. Any hypocrite or backstabber can do that.
She: yeah the way you accuse me you might have had good intentions but your delivery was wrong.
Myself: Again I withdraw, I won't say any more on the subject since you think I am "railroading" you. Take more time to think about it. Right now this is what the sum of your responses say to me:
"I wasn't disrespecting you because I say so. I can speak to you abusively and put you down all I want while trying to make this point. Mocking others is not disrespectful when I do it, your just taking it that way. You didn't point this out to me because you care about me/us, you did it because you're mean and coercive. You should quit your ministry because your to mean and coercive."
That about sum up your viewpoint?
She: I don't know who belittled you or put you down in the past but you just let out all your anger on me. But I apologize for my actions and you don't have to worry about about me ever saying anything else to you.
Myself: I have no anger for you or anyone of the past either. I would have to volley said accusation right back. Your words not mine. If you wish to no longer speak to me that would be your choice I could not change such.
She: I can take criticism just fine, that's not the case. If you think that then what you want? But I am saying is the way you went about it I don't agree with.
-----[About 4 hours later 1pm-ish]-----
Myself: If you choose to see things that are not and lie to yourself, I cannot stop that. I will pray for us and for you. I have no anger towards you at all. Only the request that you don't disrespect me. If that is to much to ask I don't know what to say to you. It seems not even my point of view or argument is respected.
She: I was wrong, I guess I'm a b****; I have nothing left to say and you won't have to worry about me saying anything.
Idk, maybe you should go find someone else that's not as b****y as me then you'll be happy k?
Cause maybe I am just to rude for you and all.
Myself: I still don't understand, and I never called you that. What part of the way I went about this is wrong? I spoke respectfully with concern for your thoughts and feelings. I spoke from the heart. I prayed for guidance, I didn't involve my emotions. I was as compassionate and forgiving as I could be... What more do you want?
She: You can't even understand my point of view because in your head your right... okay your right YOUR RIGHT
My feelings huh? Those went out the window along a lot of other things.
Myself: I'm trying to understand your point of view but it seems to keep changing. It seems you're just ranting and blaming me for your actions though. What is it I am supposed to understand? Am I supposed to be convinced I felt things I didn't or meant things I didn't?
She: I'm not blaming you at all.
Myself: If we were nearby I'd suggest we seek spiritual mediation right now, but unfortunately we aren't. I guess it's up to you. I suppose if you can't or simply refuse to respect me, and seek a man you can walk all over, I am not he.
She: Idk maybe you should go find someone else that's not as b****y as me then you'll be happy k?
Myself: These are all your words not mine.
She: You are not at all who I thought you were and I guess I'm sorry that I'm not who you thought I was.
Myself: I am going to politely step back from this argument again. I am very sorry you feel this way. I hope you know and understand I do not mean to hurt or offend you, but it seems that you are quite hurt and offended. I don't know how it got to this. I'm withdrawing again to get some prayer and counsel on this matter. I'll not so easily give up on you, but I don't know what to do if the things I am saying are being received in an unintended manner. I still believe in you even if you don't believe in me. Allow me to speak for myself please. I don't need anyone else speaking or thinking for me. Maybe I'll talk to you later, maybe not. We'll see I'll leave it in God's hands.
-----[About 1 1/2hrs later 3:00pm-ish]-----
She: I'm sorry it got this far.
I'm really sad now
Well next time I won't worry cause we aren't together so it doesn't really matter if we stop talking or not.
Myself: Seriously? Don't you think you're blowing this a little out of proportion? We didn't talk for maybe two hours... Another thorny apology it would seem.
She: Why would I try to make you forget the whole respect issue... I'm not trying to play head games or anything... HAHA you don't understand at all.
Wow you accuse me of so much.
Myself: Huh, what is this in response to?
She: Playing head games trying to make you forget.
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That is where I stopped interacting with this conversation because I feel completely lost with what to do or how to respond anymore. Any advice would be appreciated, if I haven't tried it, I'll give it a try.
