David Platt - What Happens to Those Who Never Hear the Gospel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laA18HejfYg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laA18HejfYg
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David Platt - What Happens to Those Who Never Hear the Gospel
- Thread starter P31Woman
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V
VirginShallConceive
Guest
Well, you have Thomas the Disciple. Here is a man who got to hang around with our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus fed a multitude of people with only five loaves of bread and two fish. He walked on water. He turned water into wine. He made the lame walk. He made the blind see. He rose Lazarus from the dead four days after he was buried. Jesus also performed many other miracles.
After all that, you get this:
"But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe." -John 20:24-25
This guy had the privilege of hanging out with the Son of God who also is God, and witnessed miracle after miracle including a raising of a dead man four days after he was buried. There should have been no surprise whatsoever that his Lord had risen. There are people in some of these churches today who would like to see a miracle so badly that they pretend to cause their own "miracles".
So, in conclusion:
Do the Aztecs get into Heaven?
Of course they do, if Thomas was let in.
After all that, you get this:
"But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe." -John 20:24-25
This guy had the privilege of hanging out with the Son of God who also is God, and witnessed miracle after miracle including a raising of a dead man four days after he was buried. There should have been no surprise whatsoever that his Lord had risen. There are people in some of these churches today who would like to see a miracle so badly that they pretend to cause their own "miracles".
So, in conclusion:
Do the Aztecs get into Heaven?
Of course they do, if Thomas was let in.
G
Guest
Guest
David Platt is right, and he also makes sense. John 3:18
J
JCitoL
Guest
it is more dangerous for a human if it believes in a false god/lord than if it doesn't believe in anyone, the spiritual/religious iniquity is more an unbelief/disbelief than the absence of faith
Blessings
Blessings
Jesus said: "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:15,16. Connect with this Rom.10:13-16. If one can be saved without hearing, believing and obeying the gospel then why go anywhere to preach the gospel, just stay home by the tv, enjoy the fireplace and the world will all be saved.
G
Guest
Guest
Here's my question. How many times can you tell someone about the gospel before they turn you away for good. "Oh wait a minute, i told that person about the gospel last week, so I don't have to remind them this week". As a Christian, do i have to keep reminding them over and over, or do I just tell them once and that's good enough for God. How does that work? What does God say about annoying Christians?
Such passages as Gal.6:10 and Jas.4:17 etc., seem to cover that. Do you have the opportunity? Do you know to do good? Is what Jesus said to do in Mk.16:15,16 good? Someone once said: "every man has the right to hear the gospel once before every man hears it twice. As for me, I'll continue to look for opportunities. Paul said we are to plant and water and then leave God to give the increase, I Cor.3:6.
God bless
God bless
Danus
Member
This is an often asked question, and one offended kicked around in the hearts and minds of many. I've heard atheist use it to vilify God, and Christians use it to justify missions work as well, to include institutionalizing the Gospel into a secular culture; prayer in school and such.
Certanily we are told to spread the Gospel some way as webb pointed out
Does God NEED us to spread the Gospel? Nowhere in the bible does is say He needs us to; that otherwise He can't spread it. God could write it in the sky if He wanted, or chisel it on creation in some way. My point is, God does not NEED us to do what He could do, BUT He does command us to. Why? Why if He could do it does He command us to?
I think the answer to that is that it is less of a command to the believer than it is a privilege.
Think of the privileges you've earned in life. Just the ones in this world; like driving a car, getting your first Job; Those rights of passages bestowed upon you for coming of age, or acquiring knowledge, or work you've done; something that earns you a right to do something that you look forward to. That's how I see this command. I see it as permission to eagerly do something with the something I have because I desperately want to, in fact I need to. It will not further me, or earn me any more than I have. It's simply a privilege.
So what about the person cut off from others who has never heard the Gospel? What happens to them and why doesn't God just write it on a rock? Let's take this question further. What about babies? They can't really hear the Gospel. They can't make sense of it. What about the mute, the severely mentally ill, or otherwise incapacitated people? What about the people who've died before Christ? How does one get the Gospel to them if they need that to be saved? "for Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. 14 How then shall they call upon Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him whom they have not heard?" (Rom. 10:13-14).......Surly if all are guilty, this includes those. What about them?
Many Christians have reconciled this in several ways. One is to simply count the children and incapacitated, or the ones who have not heard as innocent.
While Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation, God has had more than one means. I reconcile this because God's justice and mercy are perfect; the bible says so. It is God's nature. The bible does not say to preach the Gospel to all because if you don't they will not be saved. It does not say that. It just says to spread the Gospel. There is no "or else" in that command. Why? because it's a privilege.
None of us fully understand Gods Mercy and Justice. We are not equip to do so, but if we have faith in Him, we know it's perfect. Perfect Love, prefect Justice. This is illustrated in 2 Samuel 12:20-23. David's child dies. .....20 Then David got up from the ground. After he had washed, put on lotions and changed his clothes, he went into the house of the Lord and worshiped. Then he went to his own house, and at his request they served him food, and he ate. 21 His attendants asked him, “Why are you acting this way? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept, but now that the child is dead, you get up and eat!” 22 He answered, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, ‘Who knows? The Lord may be gracious to me and let the child live.’ 23 But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”
If we think about it, this question of what happens to people who have never heard the Gospel?, is a faithless question to ask. It's not a question that faith would ask at all. So, why are we asking it?
Certanily we are told to spread the Gospel some way as webb pointed out
But dose God need us to do this? Stick with me on this for just a second.
Does God NEED us to spread the Gospel? Nowhere in the bible does is say He needs us to; that otherwise He can't spread it. God could write it in the sky if He wanted, or chisel it on creation in some way. My point is, God does not NEED us to do what He could do, BUT He does command us to. Why? Why if He could do it does He command us to?
I think the answer to that is that it is less of a command to the believer than it is a privilege.
Think of the privileges you've earned in life. Just the ones in this world; like driving a car, getting your first Job; Those rights of passages bestowed upon you for coming of age, or acquiring knowledge, or work you've done; something that earns you a right to do something that you look forward to. That's how I see this command. I see it as permission to eagerly do something with the something I have because I desperately want to, in fact I need to. It will not further me, or earn me any more than I have. It's simply a privilege.
So what about the person cut off from others who has never heard the Gospel? What happens to them and why doesn't God just write it on a rock? Let's take this question further. What about babies? They can't really hear the Gospel. They can't make sense of it. What about the mute, the severely mentally ill, or otherwise incapacitated people? What about the people who've died before Christ? How does one get the Gospel to them if they need that to be saved? "for Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. 14 How then shall they call upon Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him whom they have not heard?" (Rom. 10:13-14).......Surly if all are guilty, this includes those. What about them?
Many Christians have reconciled this in several ways. One is to simply count the children and incapacitated, or the ones who have not heard as innocent.
While Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation, God has had more than one means. I reconcile this because God's justice and mercy are perfect; the bible says so. It is God's nature. The bible does not say to preach the Gospel to all because if you don't they will not be saved. It does not say that. It just says to spread the Gospel. There is no "or else" in that command. Why? because it's a privilege.
None of us fully understand Gods Mercy and Justice. We are not equip to do so, but if we have faith in Him, we know it's perfect. Perfect Love, prefect Justice. This is illustrated in 2 Samuel 12:20-23. David's child dies. .....20 Then David got up from the ground. After he had washed, put on lotions and changed his clothes, he went into the house of the Lord and worshiped. Then he went to his own house, and at his request they served him food, and he ate. 21 His attendants asked him, “Why are you acting this way? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept, but now that the child is dead, you get up and eat!” 22 He answered, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, ‘Who knows? The Lord may be gracious to me and let the child live.’ 23 But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”
If we think about it, this question of what happens to people who have never heard the Gospel?, is a faithless question to ask. It's not a question that faith would ask at all. So, why are we asking it?
Danus
Member
In the reply window you'll notice some icons. next to the image Icon you'll notice a "film strip" icon. Use that to insert video. It has the tags built in and all you have to do is copy and paste the web address for the video between the tags, or in the space provided. Try it.
[video=youtube;laA18HejfYg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laA18HejfYg [/video]
Edit added:
It worked It worked! Thanks! This could be as much fun as copy and paste!
Reply to Danus post 9
But the scripture does say they will be lost if not reached, read Mk.16:15,16 again: "--he that believeth not shall be damned." Yes God could save man in any fashion He wanted to. He is omnipotent, omnipresent and omnicient. The fact remains he has put the gospel in our hands. Further it is more than a "privilege", its a command, see again Mk.16:15,16 and Matt.29:19-20. "Go" is a command, its imperitive. I accept and commit.
God bless
But the scripture does say they will be lost if not reached, read Mk.16:15,16 again: "--he that believeth not shall be damned." Yes God could save man in any fashion He wanted to. He is omnipotent, omnipresent and omnicient. The fact remains he has put the gospel in our hands. Further it is more than a "privilege", its a command, see again Mk.16:15,16 and Matt.29:19-20. "Go" is a command, its imperitive. I accept and commit.
God bless
Danus
Member
It worked It worked! Thanks! This could be as much fun as copy and paste!
Now your a video monster.
They are already lost. If that's the only way they can be saved by hearing the Gospel. Then not only is our ability to spread it the road to the salvation, but also others ability to receive it. That then suggest that God has no other way to spread it, and it dooms those who are incapable of receiving it. Babies, the dead before Christ and anyone who can not take in the story of Christ. How might you reconcile that?
I agree Webb. We are to spread the Gospel.
But I believe that God still supernaturally gets His message to some. His Church(Christians), I believe is His primary way though.
Luke 19:38-40 38 shouting: "BLESSED IS THE KING WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD; Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!"
39 Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Him, "Teacher, rebuke Your disciples." 40 But Jesus answered, "I tell you, if these become silent, the stones will cry out!"
Jonah 4:11~~"Should I not have compassion on Nineveh, the great city in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know the difference between their right and left hand, as well as many animals?"
Now your a video monster.
They are already lost. If that's the only way they can be saved by hearing the Gospel. Then not only is our ability to spread it the road to the salvation, but also others ability to receive it. That then suggest that God has no other way to spread it, and it dooms those who are incapable of receiving it. Babies, the dead before Christ and anyone who can not take in the story of Christ. How might you reconcile that?
Yes I am!
Hollywood Style!See the part in bold. Why are you leaving God out on both ends?
BTW, David Platt is a SBC Calvinist.
EDIT ADDED: Just reread your posts on this thread. I get it. I agree. I believe when someone in Africa is desiring to know God he will allow a plane to have a door open and bibles fall from the sky in a language they can undersand if need be. He may have a missionary family murdered and their story go around the village until it is heard by that one individual who was seeking to know God and he hears about the Jesus they were teaching.
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Danus
Member
Yes I am!
See the part in bold. Why are you leaving God out on both ends?
BTW, David Platt is a SBC Calvinist.
EDIT ADDED: Just reread your posts on this thread. I get it. I agree. I believe when someone in Africa is desiring to know God he will allow a plane to have a door open and bibles fall from the sky in a language they can undersand if need be. He may have a missionary family murdered and their story go around the village until it is heard by that one individual who was seeking to know God and he hears about the Jesus they were teaching.
Yes. I'm not saying that Christ is not the way; He is. ...This is one of those issues we are not allowed to fully know i think. Like why God does not just save everyone? There are mysteries of Gods that He does not fully reveal in this way.
While I agree that we are to spread the Gospel, I do not agree that our doing that is the only way God reaches His people. In saying that one might beg me for an alternative, and while I don't have one, I feel we can gleam from scripture, a nature of God that simply says His Love and justice is perfect without our help, even if we can not fully fathom it. So, in this, we can't just say that all who have not heard are lost; ie babies, and the inept in some way. In a broader sense I think Christ saves those who can not save themselves, and that being true anyway, can and does include the former. How? I don't know.
However, this idea of "duty" bothers me deeply. Anyone can simply do something, but to desire it, that's another thing. I desire to spread the Gospel, or I'm duty bound to spread it? In the end it's both, but while you can have both desire bound and duty bound, you can not just have duty bound, with out the desire. That is why I focus on the privilege God has given us, not so much the duty.
G
Guest
Guest
But isn't that all of humanity. If we could save ourselves, there would be no need for the blood of Christ. Everybody is lost until they find Christ.
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Little children, babies, are not gospel subjects as they are already of the "kingdom of heaven": ''But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven" Matt.19:14. Babies and the "inept" (as you call them) are unteachable and in such state cannot believe, yet the Bible says in MK. 16:15,16 and Matt. 28:19-20 that the subjects of the Great Commission of Jesus Christ are to be taught and believe what they were taught.