Denominations worth it?

[A-Christian]

Those were two very thoughful post Imagican, and so much pleasent to read without all the caps.
I am curious as to how many different denominational churches you have attended services at. Please list only those that you attended services at more than once or twice.

Also, I ask this seperately as Catholicism is not a denomination. Have you ever attended a Mass?
How many times?

Peace

 

[Imagican]

A-Christian,

Fair question. Here's your answer. While I have not actually attended a Catholic Mass per se, I have witnessed a number of them. I once worked for a 'flower shop' and we did weddings and such. Due to the need to 'set up' there were a number of times that we were there when Mass was being conducted. I'll say that I found it 'strange'. For each time I witnessed a 'similar' event. I can only describe it and then you or someone Catholic can identify it. The participants were 'chanting'? something about Mary, Mother of God. And they did this over and over again.

I have attended many Baptist Churches from here to the Carolinas, (I am in Orlando Florida). I have attended a number of 'different' non-denominational Churches. I have attended Methodist Churches from here to the Carolinas. I have attended a number of 'different' Pentacostal Churches. I have YET to even encounter UR, but I have been invited to JW's and Mormon gatherings, (but have yet to attend one). I have been to a number of SDA's gatherings.

This would pretty much 'sum it up' so far as actual 'denominations' are concerned. I have also been to group meetings conducted at 'individuals houses', prayer meetings etc.........

And I have YET to experience one that was not totally infiltrated with 'man-made tradition and pagentry' that had absolutely no relevance to The Word.

Some of these have communion each week. Some do not. Some have 'rock n roll' bands playing to the audience like a 'concert'. Some don't. Some spend most of a sermon on 'one or two lines of scripture' with the speaker mostly telling their own cute 'stories', (or someone elses). Some don't even spend that much time on scripture. Some have Yoga lessons, Superbowl Parties, and gift shops bigger than most Christian Book Stores.

I could go on and on with this list of 'commercialism' that has invaded what was 'once' something 'serious', (and in past threads I have). For i am a 'firm' believer that we have enough time to 'play' day to day without a 'gathering' for that purpose. And you know what? In 'general', from my experience, the churches have almost 'all' become 'generic clones' of what they have found that 'works' to 'bring in the masses'. Bending to the will of a 'congregation' and forsaking 'most' of what is 'holy'.

No, I have certainly not been to every church in Orlando or anywhere else. But what I have experienced in the ones that I have been to is enough for me to 'see' what is going on.

Oh, and let me add one more little tid-bit of my experience with the 'churches'. Most that I have attended were full of people that lend the appearance of being 'rich' as compared to what I would consider 'poor'. And I have YET to attend EVEN ONE that would 'end their begging' by offering this:
"If there is anyone in need of anything, you know, shoes for the kids, food, medical etc..........., just get with me or one of the deacons after the service and we'll see what we can do to help out". Not ONCE have I personally heard any such offering from any of the denominations that I have attended. After all their 'begging for money' and poor mouthing how 'bad' the church was doing financially. Not one word about helping those that are TRULY in need. Hmmmmm..........

So PLEASE do not believe that I come here full of ignorance and am simply ranting and raving to hear my own voice. What I have tried to do is point out the state of the churches and what I believe to be a 'major reason' for their condition. That those that attend these 'people pleasers' would disagree with my understanding only stands to reason. For the main reason that the churches have fallen so far IS that they have simply followed the will of the 'people' rather than that of God.

I have been to churches where I waited to speak to the pastor and when given the chance asked them if they were aware that what they were practicing was in direct opposition to The Word. And have had them answer, "Yeah I know. And perhaps you should attend somewhere else".

So, for followers; I guess any denomination or church would suffice. But we are NOT suppose to be 'people followers' but follows of God through His Son.

And I am not pointing these things out to cause division of The Body. I offer what I offer in the hopes that there will be some, (if not only ONE), that are able to 'see' that what we 'follow' IS of monumental import.

So, I'm still waiting on THE answer: Which denomination has it 'figured out'. Which one has chosen 'truth' over tradition? Which one is there to 'give' rather than 'receive'? Someone? Anyone? Step right up and 'give it to me'. For I AM most certainly a 'seeker' of the 'truth'.

MEC

 

[Veritas]

So, I'm still waiting on THE answer: Which denomination has it 'figured out'. Which one has chosen 'truth' over tradition? Which one is there to 'give' rather than 'receive'? Someone? Anyone? Step right up and 'give it to me'. For I AM most certainly a 'seeker' of the 'truth'.

Well, I hope you do find a denomination that has 'figured much of it out', Imagician... I hope you find brothers and sisters in Christ to fellowship with. Is there any denomination or group of people that you have found that in?

I would agree with you that ALL denominations have fallen short (I include the CC as a denomination too...sorry CC guys, I know you may disagree). It only makes sense in that ALL of us as individuals have fallen short. I hope that the body of Christ that is in God's view is a pure reflection of Him (I believe that), but I think even we believers may lack the discernment in ourselves to completely see that. I think believers are sprinkled everywhere in every denomination, and yeah, it might seem convienient to us that they should be all in one spot as to be easily seen, but maybe God is making a wonderful good out of the unfortunate fact that denominations fall short. His Word is being spread around as much as possible through those true believers who are sprinkled everywhere.

 

[Imagican]

Veritas,

I have certainly found 'groups', (denominations), that would accept me in with open arms, so long as I 'agree' to their teachings.

But let me ask this: You refer to there 'being a sprinkling' of 'true believers' in ALL denominations. I ask you, how could this BE? For there are many differents 'truths' to be found in each. How could one 'truly' BE in a relationship with Christ through The Spirit and NOT be able to discern the 'truth'? For if these exsited, (the ones that are 'true believers'), wouldn't these, by necessity, separate themselves from those that had been lured by 'falsehood'? And HOW could one of the 'true believers' sit each week and listen to 'untruth' and then return again the next week to listen to it some more?

Wouldn't these be out 'warning' their brothers and sisters of the dangers of following ANYTHING other than The Truth?

MEC

 

[stovebolts]

Hey Mike,
Thanks for adjusting your writing style. It really makes it easier for me to read and causes less eye strain. Thanks!

I’m not sure if I’m going to be able to follow this, or any other threads closely until after the new year due to the holidays, but if you have time, how do you believe is the best way to reunite all of the different denominations?

You mentioned earlier traditions and I also believe you mentioned communion each week. If these traditions were designed for the purpose of bringing individuals to a deeper understanding or relationship with Christ while at the same time uniting the community together, would that tradition be wrong?

Every church has it's traditions, just like every household or family should have traditions. Perhaps your tradition is simply putting up a Christmas tree every year and on Christmas morning, your whole family comes together. Maybe it's just every time your in the mall you stop by Cinnabon :-D . Maybe your tradition is to have your preacher give a three point sermon. Regardless, the tradition is supposed to serve the better good of the community.

Does this mean that traditions can't be taken advantage of? If your kids think that Christmas morning is about what they can get, do we take away the tree and the presents? Or, do we try to teach them the value of the tradition? Well, what if your of another religion and all you can see is a few selfish brats... who are you to correct your neighbor simply because their children are.. well.. children? Perhaps it might be wiser to speak the parents to find out what is trying to be taught... and this is purely metaphorical.

 

[Veritas]

Veritas,

I have certainly found 'groups', (denominations), that would accept me in with open arms, so long as I 'agree' to their teachings.

And so you have no one to fellowship with at the moment? Are you still looking I hope?

But let me ask this: You refer to there 'being a sprinkling' of 'true believers' in ALL denominations. I ask you, how could this BE? For there are many differents 'truths' to be found in each. How could one 'truly' BE in a relationship with Christ through The Spirit and NOT be able to discern the 'truth'?

Not all of us who are believers are able to discern well.

Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good... to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits.... 1 Corinthians 12:7-10

For if these exsited, (the ones that are 'true believers'), wouldn't these, by necessity, separate themselves from those that had been lured by 'falsehood'? And HOW could one of the 'true believers' sit each week and listen to 'untruth' and then return again the next week to listen to it some more?

Well, to tell you the truth I don't exactly know why but I'm guessing part of it is because no one is perfect, so everyone is lured by falsehood to some degree. But the fact is they/we (the true believers) haven't separated and I don't expect them/us to until the Harvester comes back to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

I suppose there could be no true believers in almost all the denominations and churches around the world but I don't believe that is true considering I see the fruits in many of them. Yeah, some of the theology might be messed up, but do you think the shepards or the theif on the cross next to Jesus were theologians?

Wouldn't these be out 'warning' their brothers and sisters of the dangers of following ANYTHING other than The Truth?

Yes, and I think they do.

 

[Imagican]

Stove,

I believe that the 'prudent way' to deal with issues such as the ones you raised would be to abandon any tradition that 'takes away' from the truth.

Here's my point: How many 'good Christians' do you reacon out there have taught their children about Santa Claus? I have a number of aquintances that are regular church members and actually 'track' Santa on his yearly pilgrimage to bring their children presents. Now I ask you: what is your take on this type of 'tradition'? Should these people be teaching their children LIES for the sake of tradition?

This is not to mention the fact that Christmas has historically nothing to do with Christ to begin with.

So, you see, most have become so 'blind' as to what I refer here, they are not even able to discern the difference between truth and lies. They have lived with the lies so long that they have become 'their' truth. And this did not 'just happen'. This is 'learned behavior'. And it was learned 'somewhere'.

Therefore we have a 'pickle' of sorts. Continue in the 'man-made' tradition that is rife with falsehood and fantasy. Or come to a 'finding of the truth'. For to mingle the two is exactly what we have been forewarned of. Not only warned that it would happen but warned to avoid.

It's one thing to read The Word and accept it. But to read and reject it for the sake of 'tradition' is ludicrous. For how could one even 'think' that The Word pertains to 'them' if they choose not to 'follow it'. And it's not a matter of 'following what you choose to follow' that makes us ONE with Christ. It's a matter of following what we KNOW to be 'truth' that makes the difference.

Now, how is one to know the truth when they choose to follow 'man-made' tradition rather than The Word? For we ARE to discern the truth from The Word.

There are no Easter bunnies in The Word. There are no Christmas trees in The Word, (as a matter of fact I can show you just the opposite. That we were warned NOT to do as those do that worship 'other gods'. And this is in reference to what we now adore; the christmas tree).

We were told not to judge others in their celibrations so far as the celibrations themselves. This is not in reference to 'other Christians' but in reference to ALL men. But we are certainly warned against accepting and practicing celibrations of pagan origin. We were told that is OK to eat animals or food sacrificed to idols that we are given by others. But we are certainly not to sacrifice those animals or that food ourselves and then eat it.

So, what I find disturbing is this laxidaisical attitude that 'everything is OK'. So long as one 'says' that Jesus loves them it really doesn't matter how one 'lives'. This is just 'stinking thinking' like a drug addict saying that it's OK to do 'just one hit'. It does matter how we live our lives and there's no way to handle the question properly by living in a 'denomination' that focuses more on their tradition than what The Word actually offers.

Don't you honestly realize that there is a 'right way' and there are even more 'wrong ways'. This world is what we are to avoid, not revel in. Yet here are the denominations that some defend so whole heartedly encouraging just such an attitude.

So what if someone says that we're not supposed to worship Christmas trees. We like it so we're going to refute their words by simply 'doing it anyway'. I know that I shouldn't lie to my children about Santa. But so what, I enjoy it so I'm gong to do it anyway. I know that I'm not supposed to treat my neighbor, in this manner or that, but so what, I don't like him and am not afraid to let him know it. Shame, shame folks. Just look at what we have become. And even those that would argue 'follow my church or you are 'lost'. Is this 'truly' what Christ 'attempted' to teach us?

Sounds like some pretty 'watered down' theology if you ask me. And I believe that most of it was 'brought about' by denominations.
Beam me up Scottie.................................!

 

[francisdesales]

Stove,

I believe that the 'prudent way' to deal with issues such as the ones you raised would be to abandon any tradition that 'takes away' from the truth.

LOL!

Whose truth? Is truth subjective or objective?

Regards

 

[GraceBwithU]

Hi all,
I may have posted on this thread before. Anyway...This question all of a sudden was deferrent to me than when I first read it. I'm a Baptist, I've been a member of only two different Baptist churches for the past 45 years. For many years I felt very comfortable with the teachings there. But something has changed. I think all denominations have changed over the years in one way or another. Denminations do gave a unity among the members, but I'm starting to wonder if that unity is not more related the the way the denominational Churches have comformed to society rather than what it used to be.

We need Christian fellowship one to another, but not at the tune of a rock band that the church has hired to get the teenagers more interested. I'm sure these things have well intentions. But as Winston Churchhill once said, "the highway to hell is paved with good intentions." These things seem to be an attempt to lead yongsters to think that Christainity is fashionable and hip. This is sad. It is the only way for peace and erternal life, but it has never been without it's persecution.

Are denminations worth it? Only if the true Christians stand up for the trueth that Jesus has taught us.

I have been a part of several debates in these forums. One thing that has come to my attention in these debates is although we may disagree on what we are debating. If we are both truly saved and believing Christians, we still agree on who, what, how, and, why Jesus came. The debate is usually a secondary issue really.

Christians should fellowship with on another, but this fellowship does NOT take the place of our personal relationship with God. We must hunger and thirst for the rightgeousness that God is teaching us that can be ours through the belief in His Son and regular study of His Word.

Church attendance without daily bible study does very little for the soul. The truth will be given to you by the Holy Spirit if you ask. I'm not saying you will not sometimes still be influanced by your prejudices but the really import things you need to know will be plain as day.

Denominations worth it? Not without personal study. No denomination can save your soul, only the belief in Jesus Christ and the gospels preached by him will save your soul. :

 

[A-Christian]

Denominations worth it? Not without personal study.

Need to throw some study of history, from the proper sources of course.
I can relate to MEC and Gracebwithu.
The peace, reverence and holiness you and others seek is there to be found.

 

[Imagican]

Stove,

I believe that the 'prudent way' to deal with issues such as the ones you raised would be to abandon any tradition that 'takes away' from the truth.

LOL!

Whose truth? Is truth subjective or objective?

Regards

fran,

I pointed out some of the basics that are OBVIOUS. But here only a few. Not 'whose' truth, for that IS the problem. But 'what' truth? And I could expect no less from your comments to start with. Your understanding is 'steeped' in tradition that has no basis in the 'truth'. For the CC have proven to what extent they will offer 'untruth' on order to gain ANYTHING that they desire.

Truth is TRUTH and wise words created by those of this world CANNOT alter in one iota. The difference lies in what one is willing to suffer in order to follow 'their own' truth.

Funny how so many are so 'against' the words that I offer. And I offer nothing other than 'the truth'. Most would 'choose' to abandon anything remotely associated with 'truth' for the sake of self. Insisting that 'because they have accepted what pleases them, ALL others should do the 'same'.

Fran, you openly choose to follow a 'religion' that is notorious for the imprisonment of those that chose 'truth' over 'their understanding', (or worse for many). That would do anything in order to 'hide' that FACT that MUCH of their teaching COULDN'T have been inspired by the 'Holy' Spirit. And did this for well over a thousand years.

The truth of the words that i offer scream out in disbelief that so many of those that read them will utterly refuse to even consider them. For the influence of their 'denominations' have altered their hearts so much by 'their' demands of the abandonment of the 'truth'.

There IS 'a Truth' folks. For this NOT to be true would be to offer that The Word does NOT offer it. Yet there is the ability to take 'some' of the words contained within The Word and turn the 'truth' into 'lies'. Just as Satan was able to offer the 'truth' to Eve, yet alter it into a 'lie' through his subtlty, so too, is he able to allow many to read 'in' The Word and find his lies contained within It's very words themselves. The 'reason' that The Word is not called 'Words' has a 'specific' purpose. And that 'purpose' is that all of the 'words' taken in context and understanding become ONE WORD. They ALL add up to The Word. And so many that make so much effort to 'follow' what they are taught by men are so devoid of the true 'meaning' of The Word.

MEC