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Did God Chose you or did you chose God

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Robert Hern said:
do you have a choice the the matter

this is a controversial subject
Click to expand...

  • There is nothing you will ever do that will make God love you more than he does right now.
  • There is nothing you will ever do that will make God love you less than he does right now.
God’s love is unconditional. It's not based on what you do or don't do.
 
Robert Hern said:
do you have a choice the the matter

this is a controversial subject
Click to expand...

If any call upon God in Christ to save them and did not perceive it was God who drew them in to do so, is that a cause to damn them?

???

Prolly not in my eyes. Many think so though don't they?

s
 
  • "You have not chosen Me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU" (John 15:16).

  • "No one is able to come to Me UNLESS the Father Who sent Me DRAWS HIM to come to Me." (John 6:44)

  • "According as HE HAS CHOSEN US in Christ before the foundation of the world" (Ephesians 1:4)

  • "There is none that understands, there is NONE THAT SEEKS after God." (Romans 3:10,11)

  • "For by grace are you saved through faith, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES; it is the Gift of God." (Ephesians 2:8-9).

  • "For God has shut up all in unbelief so that He may show mercy to all." (Romans 11:32)

  • "NO MAN can say Jesus is Lord, BUT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT." (1 Corinthians 12:3)

  • "It is NOT of him that WILLS or of him that runs, but of GOD that shows mercy." (Romans 9:16)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Osgiliath said:
  • "You have not chosen Me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU" (John 15:16).
  • "No one is able to come to Me UNLESS the Father Who sent Me DRAWS HIM to come to Me." (John 6:44)
  • "According as HE HAS CHOSEN US in Christ before the foundation of the world" (Ephesians 1:4)
  • "There is none that understands, there is NONE THAT SEEKS after God." (Romans 3:10,11)
  • "For by grace are you saved through faith, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES; it is the Gift of God." (Ephesians 2:8-9).
  • "For God has shut up all in unbelief so that He may show mercy to all." (Romans 11:32)
  • "NO MAN can say Jesus is Lord, BUT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT." (1 Corinthians 12:3)
  • "It is NOT of him that WILLS or of him that runs, but of GOD that shows mercy." (Romans 9:16)
Click to expand...

We all credit God who are led of same to see those things. I certainly accept all of the above.

But WHY do we discount God when they are not seen?

I know exactly zero believers who stepped into faith knowing much of any doctrines.

Were any of us instantly enlightened across the entire spectrum of His Counsel?

Again, prolly not.

s
 
iLOVE said:
  • There is nothing you will ever do that will make God love you more than he does right now.
  • There is nothing you will ever do that will make God love you less than he does right now.
God’s love is unconditional. It's not based on what you do or don't do.
Click to expand...

Great response.
 
Osgiliath said:
  • "You have not chosen Me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU" (John 15:16).
  • "No one is able to come to Me UNLESS the Father Who sent Me DRAWS HIM to come to Me." (John 6:44)
  • "According as HE HAS CHOSEN US in Christ before the foundation of the world" (Ephesians 1:4)
  • "There is none that understands, there is NONE THAT SEEKS after God." (Romans 3:10,11)
  • "For by grace are you saved through faith, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES; it is the Gift of God." (Ephesians 2:8-9).
  • "For God has shut up all in unbelief so that He may show mercy to all." (Romans 11:32)
  • "NO MAN can say Jesus is Lord, BUT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT." (1 Corinthians 12:3)
  • "It is NOT of him that WILLS or of him that runs, but of GOD that shows mercy." (Romans 9:16)
Click to expand...

Excellent verses to consider.

Human responsibility is also Biblical, but these verses here just show how we do and we should depend on our gracious God.
 
There are those who stubbornly resist God' gracious calling. Usually it is their stubborn pride that hardens their hearts. There are many verses that speak of this, one is where Jesus wished to gather Jeruselem as a hen garthers her chicks, but they would not. One is in Hebrews 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: " Today if you hear His voice do not harden your hearts as the children did in the rebellion, in the day of trial in the wilderness----". Or Acts 7:51 "You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do you." NKJV

So although I totally agree with all of you that God the Father elected us before the foundations of the world according to His foreknowledge (1Peter 1), and that our salvation is totally His idea, His calling, His gift of faith and repentance, His grace, and that works our have nothing to do with it: Still those who are not saved have done so at their responsibility by resisting God's calling by the Holy Spirit. For many are called but few are chosen.
 
Osgiliath said:
  • "You have not chosen Me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU" (John 15:16).

  • "No one is able to come to Me UNLESS the Father Who sent Me DRAWS HIM to come to Me." (John 6:44)

  • "According as HE HAS CHOSEN US in Christ before the foundation of the world" (Ephesians 1:4)

  • "There is none that understands, there is NONE THAT SEEKS after God." (Romans 3:10,11)

  • "For by grace are you saved through faith, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES; it is the Gift of God." (Ephesians 2:8-9).

  • "For God has shut up all in unbelief so that He may show mercy to all." (Romans 11:32)

  • "NO MAN can say Jesus is Lord, BUT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT." (1 Corinthians 12:3)

  • "It is NOT of him that WILLS or of him that runs, but of GOD that shows mercy." (Romans 9:16)
Click to expand...

I don't know if any of these passages, in context, addresses the issue at hand.
 
Carolyn said:
There are those who stubbornly resist God' gracious calling. Usually it is their stubborn pride that hardens their hearts. There are many verses that speak of this, one is where Jesus wished to gather Jeruselem as a hen garthers her chicks, but they would not. One is in Hebrews 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: " Today if you hear His voice do not harden your hearts as the children did in the rebellion, in the day of trial in the wilderness----". Or Acts 7:51 "You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do you." NKJV

So although I totally agree with all of you that God the Father elected us before the foundations of the world according to His foreknowledge (1Peter 1), and that our salvation is totally His idea, His calling, His gift of faith and repentance, His grace, and that works our have nothing to do with it: Still those who are not saved have done so at their responsibility by resisting God's calling by the Holy Spirit. For many are called but few are chosen.
Click to expand...

Carolyn:

God's wondrous sovereignty and solemn human responsibility complement each other, don't they?

Both are Biblical (even if we can't exactly figure how).

Blessings.
 
Originally posted by Butch5,

I don't know if any of these passages, in context, addresses the issue at hand.
Click to expand...

What is the issue at hand? Address each of the passages, one by one - in context.
 
Here's the breakdown thus far...

Election to salvation in the first Adam......... 0%

Election to salvation in the last Adam..........100%

See any trend here...:)
 
iLOVE said:
  • There is nothing you will ever do that will make God love you more than he does right now.
  • There is nothing you will ever do that will make God love you less than he does right now.
God’s love is unconditional. It's not based on what you do or don't do.
Click to expand...

Let's fact check your post:

Psalm 5:5
The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity.
 
Ephesians 1
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.
In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship[c] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will
 
Robert Hern said:
Ephesians 1
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.
In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship[c] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will
Click to expand...


Amen to that.. chosen in Him, in the Lord Jesus Christ..

Election in the first Adam... 0%

Election in the last Adam...100%
 
Eventide said:
Amen to that.. chosen in Him, in the Lord Jesus Christ..

Election in the first Adam... 0%

Election in the last Adam...100%
Click to expand...

I might certainly appreciate your formula above, but wasn't Adam always Gods son?

Undoubtedly a first Adam and a last Adam, but Adam as Gods son nevertheless.

How for example would the first Adam be a zero % and was still Gods son?

?
 
smaller said:
I might certainly appreciate your formula above, but wasn't Adam always Gods son?

Undoubtedly a first Adam and a last Adam, but Adam as Gods son nevertheless.

How for example would the first Adam be a zero % and was still Gods son?

?
Click to expand...

You're scaring me here smaller.. this is like bible 101.. see Romans 5 and Romans 5:18 if you don't understand this.
 
Eventide said:
You're scaring me here smaller.. this is like bible 101.. see Romans 5 and Romans 5:18 if you don't understand this.
Click to expand...

Just asking how, if Adam was Gods son, which we can both see that he was, that he was not chosen rather than 0% as you note?

Did God abandon Adam? Or save him?

If there was a last Adam, which would seem reasonable, him being Gods son, it would appear not to have ever been a 0%.

Math questions. Gotta luv 'em.

s
 
smaller said:
Just asking how, if Adam was Gods son, which we can both see that he was, that he was not chosen rather than 0% as you note?

Did God abandon Adam? Or save him?

If there was a last Adam, which would seem reasonable, him being Gods son, it would appear not to have ever been a 0%.

Math questions. Gotta luv 'em.

s
Click to expand...

Well, if you don't believe that all in the first Adam are under condemnation, then I can't help you. Death has passed upon all men as well... since then... this should be painfully obvious to anyone..

And the LORD has saved every last one of us in the first Adam.. for His grace is UNTO ALL and it is UPON ALL who believe.
 
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