Did God Predestinate some to Hell/Wrath ?

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The main deal is that regardless of what anyone anywhere thinks, there is what actually is. Satan is the only character in all creation with the sole capability, desire, and power to enthrall a third of heaven and countless mortal beings to go against God. And although we can probably agree that very many are fooled into this way of being, the enemy is doing it all on purpose and wants nothing more than to vex God every second he can. God created this being, knowing exactly what he could do. It does have a pre-destiny odor to it. Its not actually important to me one way or the other. From my end its just all possibility and I am more than ok with that.

Brilliant deduction. Of course Satan was made by God to do exactly what Satan does. That evil/wicked "seed" did not create itself.

There are several God created "seed" statements in Gen. 1 accounts of Gods creation of them, and Satan himself is directly linked to being "a seed" in Gen. 3:15.

 

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Adam was of course the exception, as well as everyone else to whom this scripture is not referring to.

I've noted prior that if your case is the case we'll have to request a re-write of Romans 11:32, Romans 8:20-23 and 1 Cor. 15:42-46.

Your positions contention is that Romans 11:32's statement of "everyone" only applies to blinded Jews. And I've said IF that was the case, then "everyone" or "all" should have been stated as "unbelieving Jews" and not everyone/all.

God has concluded the Jews, during the time the Gospel was preached, until the fullness of the Gentiles come in, as "blinded" or "disobedient" to the Gospel. This certainly doesn't include Adam, or anyone else prior to that time.

That is a horrific rending of that verse. And I've already shown you "why" that claim of your position isn't so. Mark 4:15, Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2 show that disobedience is entirely universal to unbelieving mankind and it involves Satan in mankind's mind and heart, making it so.

 

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Then just list all that matters. And don't use your typical non-sensical words. Spell them out clearly and plainly. OK, I'll claim that your theology is a one sided one trick pony. Now, we're even. why don't you knock off your silly word games and speak plainly. If you know how.

I'll not engage your failures to engage with scriptures and tossing out the above. It's not a civil discourse. What you are engaged with, internally in the above, is false accusations, not scriptural discourses.

We are here to share and break the bread of His Words. That's how it works, civilly.

So, I've observed with you many many times, how and why your one sided trick pony, which pony I happen to AGREE with, is not the only side of the equation.

And here is why, scripturally, that the perpetual one lipped trumpet you blow in every post isn't credible and isn't the only sight in play:

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Now, speaking plainly, we can see Paul in the above, entirely saved, eternally secure. We agree on that! Bravo.

But let's look at the whole equation. That in Paul's own flesh there is a working that is slated for eternal damnation in the LoF. Is it not?

My observation is this. That eternal security and eternal damnation can be applied to Paul in the above. Therefore it is pointless to look at only Paul.

One of the biggest complaints about OSAS is that it completely lacks adverse judgments, which adverse judgments ARE a reality of the scriptures. Your position would do itself well to recognize the other side of the equations.

As it pertains to this thread, I observe that Satan and his minions were made by God, predestined in Gods Own Mind to be made so, and are also predestined to "resist God" and that God predestined to destroy ALL of these bad actors in the LoF, at the end of this current wicked/evil age.

Clear enough? I'd expect after doing this exercise with you that at some point you might at least understand, and quit with the above nonsense. There isn't another poster at this board who's positions I at least UNDERSTAND.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Then just list all that matters. And don't use your typical non-sensical words. Spell them out clearly and plainly. OK, I'll claim that your theology is a one sided one trick pony. Now, we're even. why don't you knock off your silly word games and speak plainly. If you know how."

I'll not engage your failures to engage with scriptures and tossing out the above.

Loose translation: I'll continue to use non-sensical words, and not speak plainly.

It's not a civil discourse. What you are engaged with, internally in the above, is false accusations, not scriptural discourses.

Just speak clearly and plainly, and leave the non-sensical words alone.

We are here to share and break the bread of His Words. That's how it works, civilly.

Then just speak plainly and directly and leave the non-sensical words out of it.

So, I've observed with you many many times, how and why your one sided trick pony, which pony I happen to AGREE with, is not the only side of the equation.

OK, here we go again: "one sided trick pony". What in the world are you referring to? Apparently the ability to speak plainly and directly is not your forte.

And here is why, scripturally, that the perpetual one lipped trumpet you blow in every post isn't credible and isn't the only sight in play:

And here we go AGAIN: what in the world is a "perpetual one lipped trumpet"??

Now, speaking plainly, we can see Paul in the above, entirely saved, eternally secure. We agree on that! Bravo.

Yes, Paul does speak plainly. It's your posts that are the concern.

But let's look at the whole equation.

Since Scripture isn't math, let's leave the word "equation" out of this, ok? Speak plainly. If you can.

That in Paul's own flesh there is a working that is slated for eternal damnation in the LoF. Is it not?

This clearly sounds like an insinuation that Paul was demon possessed. Which he was NOT. Again, this is NOT clear or plain speaking.

My observation is this. That eternal security and eternal damnation can be applied to Paul in the above.

This is obviously quite confused and contradicted.

Therefore it is pointless to look at only Paul.

Concerning the issue of eternal security, we can ONLY look to people.

One of the biggest complaints about OSAS is that it completely lacks adverse judgments, which adverse judgments ARE a reality of the scriptures.

Then speaking plainly, explain what these "adverse judgments" are.

Your position would do itself well to recognize the other side of the equations.

Explain yourself, please.

As it pertains to this thread, I observe that Satan and his minions were made by God, predestined in Gods Own Mind to be made so, and are also predestined to "resist God" and that God predestined to destroy ALL of these bad actors in the LoF, at the end of this current wicked/evil age.

Yet, you've failed to prove any of this, or to even show evidence of this. The verses you've used don't say what you claim.

Clear enough? I'd expect after doing this exercise with you that at some point you might at least understand, and quit with the above nonsense.

The nonsense has all been in your posts, what with the non-sensical words and all.

 

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I said this:
"Then just list all that matters. And don't use your typical non-sensical words. Spell them out clearly and plainly. OK, I'll claim that your theology is a one sided one trick pony. Now, we're even. why don't you knock off your silly word games and speak plainly. If you know how."

Loose translation: I'll continue to use non-sensical words, and not speak plainly.


Just speak clearly and plainly, and leave the non-sensical words alone.


Then just speak plainly and directly and leave the non-sensical words out of it.


OK, here we go again: "one sided trick pony". What in the world are you referring to? Apparently the ability to speak plainly and directly is not your forte.


And here we go AGAIN: what in the world is a "perpetual one lipped trumpet"??


Yes, Paul does speak plainly. It's your posts that are the concern.


Since Scripture isn't math, let's leave the word "equation" out of this, ok? Speak plainly. If you can.


This clearly sounds like an insinuation that Paul was demon possessed. Which he was NOT. Again, this is NOT clear or plain speaking.


This is obviously quite confused and contradicted.


Concerning the issue of eternal security, we can ONLY look to people.


Then speaking plainly, explain what these "adverse judgments" are.


Explain yourself, please.


Yet, you've failed to prove any of this, or to even show evidence of this. The verses you've used don't say what you claim.


The nonsense has all been in your posts, what with the non-sensical words and all.

Please engage with scripture. Not a scripture counter point in sight in the above. I know the scriptures I point to are not commonly popular, but they are there to observe for good reasons.

Matthew 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Then just list all that matters. And don't use your typical non-sensical words. Spell them out clearly and plainly. OK, I'll claim that your theology is a one sided one trick pony. Now, we're even. why don't you knock off your silly word games and speak plainly. If you know how."
Loose translation: I'll continue to use non-sensical words, and not speak plainly.
Just speak clearly and plainly, and leave the non-sensical words alone.
Then just speak plainly and directly and leave the non-sensical words out of it.
OK, here we go again: "one sided trick pony". What in the world are you referring to? Apparently the ability to speak plainly and directly is not your forte.
And here we go AGAIN: what in the world is a "perpetual one lipped trumpet"??

Please engage with scripture.

Right. Not engage with your non-sensical words. Which I've called out.

Not a scripture counter point in sight in the above.

I was addressing your non-sensical words, not Scripture.

 

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I said this:
"Then just list all that matters. And don't use your typical non-sensical words. Spell them out clearly and plainly. OK, I'll claim that your theology is a one sided one trick pony. Now, we're even. why don't you knock off your silly word games and speak plainly. If you know how."
Loose translation: I'll continue to use non-sensical words, and not speak plainly.
Just speak clearly and plainly, and leave the non-sensical words alone.
Then just speak plainly and directly and leave the non-sensical words out of it.
OK, here we go again: "one sided trick pony". What in the world are you referring to? Apparently the ability to speak plainly and directly is not your forte.
And here we go AGAIN: what in the world is a "perpetual one lipped trumpet"??

Right. Not engage with your non-sensical words. Which I've called out.


I was addressing your non-sensical words, not Scripture.

IF you don't understand what's been cited, then your inability to grasp the scriptural presentations are duly noted.

God doesn't bless this working in any man.

Romans 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

We can bombard the above fact with every OSAS scripture in the Bible, and never will we find Gods justifications upon the above evil present, ever. Does blasting evil present and indwelling sin with OSAS scriptures do anything to counter that internal reality? Never. It only buries that reality under a worthless mountain of inapplicable scriptures that do not work to justify any of it in anyone.

So, I ask, what's up? Why do we ignore the most obvious things about our present construct? Where does this evil stem from? How did it come about? How did it get put in play in creation to begin with? What is our role as believers in engaging these matters? These are the questions I look to in scripture, where others don't even want to look because they might have to take on the scriptural facts, personally. And they then get offended.

Identifying a problem, accurately, contains 90% of the solution. Looking away from the scriptural narratives on that side of the ledgers doesn't interest me, personally. Nor does throwing a mountain of OSAS scriptures at evil present and indwelling sin do ANYTHING positive whatsoever. That practice is just a common coverup of false religious self justifications. Which I happen to detest.

So, my bad in dragging out the obvious for view. I'm looking, regardless of anyone liking it or not, or getting their pet doctrines challenged. Even my own.

 

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Okay kids, enough is enough. I think it's time to end this .