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Did Jesus Teach Everlasting Torment for Unbelievers?

Will unbelievers spend eternity in everlasting punishment in an everlasting fire?

  • I do not believe that unbelievers will be in everlasting punishment in everlasting fire.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other, with explaination below.

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  • Total voters
    9

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SputnikBoy said:
I've come to the conclusion that 'punishment' is a personal thing that lies within the heart of the individual.


And, how to do come to that conclusion?
what scripture(s) can you provide to show this as biblical truth?
I'm not in any way meaning to perturb you at all, , I am truly curious as to how you come to these finding and conclusions of yours. What scripture(s) brought you to that conclusion?

SputnikBoy said:
Those Christians who in their hearts want to string someone up will no doubt opt for a God that would want do the same thing.

What are you talking about? "string someone up" where do you get that from? precisely, please. :)

SputnikBoy said:
The Bible says otherwise but nothing - even the Bible - will convince them that God is not a heartless tyrant.

Where in the bible? What scriptures are you refering to?

And who here is saying God is a heartless tyrant? Shocking, just shocking! :o

Precisely who, please?

SputnikBoy said:
Oftentimes God is a reflection of who we would have Him be ...often ourselves.

Where did that come from? Anyone particular in mind?
Or are you generalizing again?
Curious, what bible verse did you derive that from?
Or who brought you to that frame of thought?

SputnikBoy said:
If someone desires that there be everlasting torment for the wicked, then that's what God will do to the wicked.

Huh? :o

Again, which scriptures do you gather that data from?
Who influenced you to think such, by way of who's comments or actions did you conclude such thoughts?

Or are you throwing around a bunch of sarcasm?

Please do share, so that those who don't know you will have scriptures and quotes of others, to compare your final thoughts on the matter.

You wouldn't want to leave anyone in a confused state of mind over your conclusions and findings now, would you? Quotes from others along with Scriptural references would clear that up in a flash. :biggrin

So please, do share your facts and not speculations in these regards so we can compare your thoughts as they might be from, or, should be, or, are in accordance to, or, are in line with biblical precepts and principles.

You know, it being from a biblical perspective in all. :biggrin


Much obliged,


:wink:


.
 
Lyric's Dad said:
This forum does not allow the discussion of Universal Reconciliation. When it decides, if ever, to rescinde that stance then I will get in on this subject.

Suffice it to say that my Lord and my God is not a maniac.

Whew!

Thank God! :-D

.
 
.

Psalm 1:4-6

4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.

5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.



.
 
What does Jesus say about those that are told to depart. He tells them that they will go into everlasting punishment and everlasting fire.



31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Matthew 25:31-46

The word translated eternal for eternal life and everlasting for everlasting punishment and everlasting fire is the same word, αιωνιον, defined as without end, never to cease.

25:41 τοτε ερει και τοις εξ ευωνυμων πορευεσθε απ εμου οι κατηραμενοι εις το πυρ το αιωνιον το ητοιμασμενον τω διαβολω και τοις αγγελοις αυτου
25:46 και απελευσονται ουτοι εις κολασιν αιωνιον οι δε δικαιοι εις ζωην αιωνιον

The other scripture that uses the same word is as follows:

Mt 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

Mt 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Mt 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

Mr 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Mr 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

Mr 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

Lu 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

Lu 16:9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.

Lu 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

Lu 18:30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Joh 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Joh 4:36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Joh 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Joh 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Ac 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Ac 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Ro 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Ro 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Ro 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Ro 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Ro 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

2Co 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Ga 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2Th 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

1Ti 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Phm 1:15 For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever;

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

1Jo 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

1Jo 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

1Jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1Jo 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Re 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:9-12
 
SputnikBoy said:
I've come to the conclusion that 'punishment' is a personal thing that lies within the heart of the individual. Those Christians who in their hearts want to string someone up will no doubt opt for a God that would want do the same thing. The Bible says otherwise but nothing - even the Bible - will convince them that God is not a heartless tyrant. Oftentimes God is a reflection of who we would have Him be ...often ourselves. If someone desires that there be everlasting torment for the wicked, then that's what God will do to the wicked.
Why don't you take the scriptures that solo has posted to back up his position and enlighten us as to what they (all) really mean to (you), that way we can all see your personal interpretation.
It would be nice to see you and others here debate the (scriptires) instead of hurling accusation and opinion at people who don't believe as you do. We have yet to see you break down all those scriptures solo posted and tell us what they really mean. Can't wait to see!
 
destiny said:
Why don't you take the scriptures that solo has posted to back up his position and enlighten us as to what they (all) really mean to (you), that way we can all see your personal interpretation.
It would be nice to see you and others here debate the (scriptires) instead of hurling accusation and opinion at people who don't believe as you do. We have yet to see you break down all those scriptures solo posted and tell us what they really mean. Can't wait to see!

destiny, we HAVE taken Solo's scriptures and talked about them...over and over and over and over again. Nobody wants to listen or try to dispute them. Instead we hear the same arguments..over and over and over again. The same arguments we have explained away.

As Sputnik said before, people will believe what they want to believe. For some reason (even though our own sense of justice rebels at such an idea in our judicial system), people are completely okay to think that God will allow our loved ones to be tormented for a quadrillion years (did you ever put your hand under hot water for a few seconds? The feeling is enough to drive you mad).

Hence, they will not actually see that there are different ways to interpret solo's verses and that his method of interpretation is contradicted by numerous other texts. It is not like we are pulling our theories out of thin air here.

* eternal and everlasting have been explained in context
* these terms are dependant on to whom they apply
* Revelation 14's graphic terms are a metaphoric carbon copy of Isaiah 34:10 which describes complete annihilation and destruction (as does the terms 'unquenchable fire' and 'worm dieth not'
* the wicked do not have immortal souls and therefore cannot be tormented for eternity. Eternal life is only granted to the righteous
* How can disembodied souls or even physical bodies honestly suffer fires for trillions of years without being consumed?
* the bible uses the literal terms for the fate of the wicked: perishing (used to mean destroyed, not continually perishing), death, destruction, consume away, never have been, ashes under the souls, left with neither root nor branch) All of these texts explain the other and with the view that the wicked do not have immortality, then explain the texts that the suffering must cease at some point.
* Even if it mentions that the fires are eternal or everlasting, it never says that what goes into is also eternal or everlasting

You see, there are many explanations straight from the bible to counteract Solo's views.
 
This whole conversation is funny. It sounds like conservatives and liberals arguing. :smt081 But who knows?

Nevertheless it is never good to be in denial. God will not excuse that. I must assert that the bible is quite clear. There is a hell, there is a lake of fire, and there is a heaven, or dwellinplace with God.

Jesus mentioned eternal torment often, because it is obvious that many would want to dismiss it.

The comments referring to no eternal existence in hell because they are apart from God is a misnomer. Every human has a spirit. Every human will live forever, whether in life or in death. The spirit does not cease to exist.
 
antitox said:
This whole conversation is funny. It sounds like conservatives and liberals arguing. :smt081 But who knows?

Nevertheless it is never good to be in denial. God will not excuse that. I must assert that the bible is quite clear. There is a hell, there is a lake of fire, and there is a heaven, or dwellinplace with God.

Jesus mentioned eternal torment often, because it is obvious that many would want to dismiss it.

The comments referring to no eternal existence in hell because they are apart from God is a misnomer. Every human has a spirit. Every human will live forever, whether in life or in death. The spirit does not cease to exist.
Which Bible? Because the word hell is in differing translations different amounts of times and in some, it does not appear at all.
 
guibox said:
destiny said:
Why don't you take the scriptures that solo has posted to back up his position and enlighten us as to what they (all) really mean to (you), that way we can all see your personal interpretation.
It would be nice to see you and others here debate the (scriptires) instead of hurling accusation and opinion at people who don't believe as you do. We have yet to see you break down all those scriptures solo posted and tell us what they really mean. Can't wait to see!

destiny, we HAVE taken Solo's scriptures and talked about them...over and over and over and over again. Nobody wants to listen or try to dispute them. Instead we hear the same arguments..over and over and over again. The same arguments we have explained away.

As Sputnik said before, people will believe what they want to believe. For some reason (even though our own sense of justice rebels at such an idea in our judicial system), people are completely okay to think that God will allow our loved ones to be tormented for a quadrillion years (did you ever put your hand under hot water for a few seconds? The feeling is enough to drive you mad).

Hence, they will not actually see that there are different ways to interpret solo's verses and that his method of interpretation is contradicted by numerous other texts. It is not like we are pulling our theories out of thin air here.

* eternal and everlasting have been explained in context
* these terms are dependant on to whom they apply
* Revelation 14's graphic terms are a metaphoric carbon copy of Isaiah 34:10 which describes complete annihilation and destruction (as does the terms 'unquenchable fire' and 'worm dieth not'
* the wicked do not have immortal souls and therefore cannot be tormented for eternity. Eternal life is only granted to the righteous
* How can disembodied souls or even physical bodies honestly suffer fires for trillions of years without being consumed?
* the bible uses the literal terms for the fate of the wicked: perishing (used to mean destroyed, not continually perishing), death, destruction, consume away, never have been, ashes under the souls, left with neither root nor branch) All of these texts explain the other and with the view that the wicked do not have immortality, then explain the texts that the suffering must cease at some point.
* Even if it mentions that the fires are eternal or everlasting, it never says that what goes into is also eternal or everlasting

You see, there are many explanations straight from the bible to counteract Solo's views.
I take the word of God at face value and I don't try to figure out how God is going to do what he's going to do.
As far as anialation goes, I don't really have a problem with it but it's still not what I see in scripture.
Does that make me evil and subject to personal attack for not seeing it your way? Yes, I think it very much does according to the posts of some of the self righteous here.
I already know your veiws anyway guibox, but others here would rather attack people for not believing as they do and accsue them of making God out to be a monster other than debate the scripture presented and enlighten us all as to what their interpretation of those scriptures are.
As Sputnik said before, people will believe what they want to believe.
Yes, they sure will..I agree 100 percent.
 
destiny said:
Quote:

As Sputnik said before, people will believe what they want to believe.

Yes, they sure will..I agree 100 percent.

You also said:
Others here would rather attack people for not believing as they do

While I to do not support attacking others.

You also said:
and accuse them of making God out to be a monster other than debate the scripture presented and enlighten us all as to what their interpretation of those scriptures are.

I am at a loss to understand why (given that you agree with sputnik's statement 100%) you would see any value in debating.

It is quite one thing to present your views and leave it at that, and quite another to debate. Which (if what you have posted here is true) has to be fruitless.
 
If the word that Jesus used for everlasting fire and everlasting punishment in Matthew 25 does not mean fire and punishment without end, then the same word that he uses for eternal life does not mean life without end.

Many cults adhere to the anihilation theory. No Biblical scholar who has done a study of this topic can reprove it without claiming a metaphorical definition for all uses of the terminology. Unfortunately because of the anihilation teaching, many will end up weeping and gnashing their teeth thinking that they were supposed to be on their way to ceasing to exist, but will find out that, that too is a lie.
 
Solo said:
If the word that Jesus used for everlasting fire and everlasting punishment in Matthew 25 does not mean fire and punishment without end, then the same word that he uses for eternal life does not mean life without end.

Many cults adhere to the anihilation theory. No Biblical scholar who has done a study of this topic can reprove it without claiming a metaphorical definition for all uses of the terminology. Unfortunately because of the anihilation teaching, many will end up weeping and gnashing their teeth thinking that they were supposed to be on their way to ceasing to exist, but will find out that, that too is a lie.
http://martinzender.com/eonion_life_not_eternal_life.htm
 
I am at a loss to understand why (given that you agree with sputnik's statement 100%) you would see any value in debating.

It is quite one thing to present your views and leave it at that, and quite another to debate. Which (if what you have posted here is true) has to be fruitless.
My point is, if presenting your veiws means attacking someone for posting scripture, then you should really attack the scripture and give us a reason to believe or not believe you are right.
I think accusing someone of being hateful or having a tyrant God (etc) is hitting below the belt.
No, I see NO value in debates, they always prove fruitless as far as I can see here on the forums...but I wish they could be fair and without personal attack.
 
Destiny said:
My point is, if presenting your views means attacking someone for posting scripture, then you should really attack the scripture and give us a reason to believe or not believe you are right.
I think accusing someone of being hateful or having a tyrant God (etc) is hitting below the belt.
No, I see NO value in debates, they always prove fruitless as far as I can see here on the forums...but I wish they could be fair and without personal attack.

I agree with everything you have said here except the part where you said: "then you should really attack the scripture and give us a reason to believe or not believe you are right."

I am not accountable to any of you for what I believe. And I have no need to prove that I am right. If what I write makes sense...fine...if not...that is fine too.
 
Lyric's Dad said:
Solo said:
If the word that Jesus used for everlasting fire and everlasting punishment in Matthew 25 does not mean fire and punishment without end, then the same word that he uses for eternal life does not mean life without end.

Many cults adhere to the anihilation theory. No Biblical scholar who has done a study of this topic can reprove it without claiming a metaphorical definition for all uses of the terminology. Unfortunately because of the anihilation teaching, many will end up weeping and gnashing their teeth thinking that they were supposed to be on their way to ceasing to exist, but will find out that, that too is a lie.
http://martinzender.com/eonion_life_not_eternal_life.htm

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/tex ... 0085a.html
 
Solo said:
Lyric's Dad said:
Solo said:
If the word that Jesus used for everlasting fire and everlasting punishment in Matthew 25 does not mean fire and punishment without end, then the same word that he uses for eternal life does not mean life without end.

Many cults adhere to the anihilation theory. No Biblical scholar who has done a study of this topic can reprove it without claiming a metaphorical definition for all uses of the terminology. Unfortunately because of the anihilation teaching, many will end up weeping and gnashing their teeth thinking that they were supposed to be on their way to ceasing to exist, but will find out that, that too is a lie.
http://martinzender.com/eonion_life_not_eternal_life.htm

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/tex ... 0085a.html
Studied this subject plenty. Don't care to any longer. Thanks anyway.
 
Lyric's Dad said:
antitox said:
This whole conversation is funny. It sounds like conservatives and liberals arguing. :smt081 But who knows?

Nevertheless it is never good to be in denial. God will not excuse that. I must assert that the bible is quite clear. There is a hell, there is a lake of fire, and there is a heaven, or dwellinplace with God.

Jesus mentioned eternal torment often, because it is obvious that many would want to dismiss it.

The comments referring to no eternal existence in hell because they are apart from God is a misnomer. Every human has a spirit. Every human will live forever, whether in life or in death. The spirit does not cease to exist.
Which Bible? Because the word hell is in differing translations different amounts of times and in some, it does not appear at all.

Well I certainly hope you are reading from the same bible as other believers.
I'm not speaking merely of the references to hell only. Some he speaks only as "gnashing of teeth." The point was and is, that eternal torment is mentioned more in the bible than heaven, and for good reason. (And I'm not talking about heaven being the sky).
 
antitox said:
Lyric's Dad said:
antitox said:
This whole conversation is funny. It sounds like conservatives and liberals arguing. :smt081 But who knows?

Nevertheless it is never good to be in denial. God will not excuse that. I must assert that the bible is quite clear. There is a hell, there is a lake of fire, and there is a heaven, or dwellinplace with God.

Jesus mentioned eternal torment often, because it is obvious that many would want to dismiss it.

The comments referring to no eternal existence in hell because they are apart from God is a misnomer. Every human has a spirit. Every human will live forever, whether in life or in death. The spirit does not cease to exist.
Which Bible? Because the word hell is in differing translations different amounts of times and in some, it does not appear at all.

Well I certainly hope you are reading from the same bible as other believers.
I'm not speaking merely of the references to hell only. Some he speaks only as "gnashing of teeth." The point was and is, that eternal torment is mentioned more in the bible than heaven, and for good reason. (And I'm not talking about the sky).
Well, actually hell is not mentioned except in faulty translations and then there is no consistency. It is the word used for different things such as the grave and a garbage dump outside the walls of jerusalem.

Yes, there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth and many will walk through the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the Spirit which purifies from all sins which will be torment to those who wish to hang onto them. Imagine the eons of pain trying to deny the Spirit of what He is there to do. Imagine the pain of pure love being poured over that which hates the love.
 

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