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Do animals go to heaven?

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Alabaster said:
No, because what is on Earth is a mirror or shadow image of what is ALREADY in heaven. Heaven comes to Earth in the end. Animals have souls but not spirits where the Holy Spirt takes up residence. There is no need---they do not sin, or are part of God's redemptive plan. It's all about man.
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I truly don't understand your answer.

My question was: If Adam had not ate of the fruit, and if the Fall never occurred, would the animals that had been created on the 6th day still be alive?

I'm not sure how shadow images of what is in heaven comes into play here.

Before the Fall, there was no death in the world. None. This would include no death of animals, would it not?

Seriously, are you saying that animals did die before the Fall? I ask, because I truly don't understand your answer.

As for animals not having spirits, Eccl 3:20-21 states otherwise. There are different words for soul and for spirit. To say that the word ruwach means "soul" in Eccl 3:20-21 is like saying Peter means Peter in all texts except Matthew 8:14 in which Peter actually means Paul.
 
handy said:
I truly don't understand your answer.

My question was: If Adam had not ate of the fruit, and if the Fall never occurred, would the animals that had been created on the 6th day still be alive?

I'm not sure how shadow images of what is in heaven comes into play here.

Before the Fall, there was no death in the world. None. This would include no death of animals, would it not?

Seriously, are you saying that animals did die before the Fall? I ask, because I truly don't understand your answer.

As for animals not having spirits, Eccl 3:20-21 states otherwise. There are different words for soul and for spirit. To say that the word ruwach means "soul" in Eccl 3:20-21 is like saying Peter means Peter in all texts except Matthew 8:14 in which Peter actually means Paul.
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Animals do not have a place within them that we call spirit. They are NOT tripartite beings as man is. period.

I believe the animal kingdom as well as the plant world were created with finite life cycles from the beginning.
 
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What is your basis for believing so? Not to sound snippy, because believe me, I'm not trying to be, but your repeated claim that ruwach doesn't mean spirit when applied to animals is just your opinion until such a time as you can show from the Scriptures the foundation for your statement.

This truly is interesting to me, Alabaster, because you are the first Bible believing Christian I've ever met that believes that death was in the world before the Fall.

Romans 6 as well as Romans 8:18-21, seem very clear to me that there was no death prior to the Fall and that all of creation will be set free from the corruption the Fall brought about.

Do you have any texts to back up your opinion?
 
handy said:
Let me ask this, if Adam had not ate of the fruit, and if the Fall never occurred, would the animals that had been created on the 6th day still be alive?
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No, I don't think they would, because I don't believe animals were created to live forever. There are two reasons I believe this. The first is Scripture. God told Adam:

“You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.†(Gen. 2:16-17 NIV)​

In his letter to the Romans:

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned (Rom. 5:12 NIV)​

There's no mention of animals dying as a result of sin, only man.

The second reason is simply logic. For Adam to understand what God was telling him, he had to understand what death was. It therefore seems logical to me that he had seen animals die. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have understood death and the seriousness of God's warning.
 
Theofilus said:
No, I don't think they would, because I don't believe animals were created to live forever. There are two reasons I believe this. The first is Scripture. God told Adam:
“You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.†(Gen. 2:16-17 NIV)
​
In his letter to the Romans:
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned (Rom. 5:12 NIV)
​
There's no mention of animals dying as a result of sin, only man.

The second reason is simply logic. For Adam to understand what God was telling him, he had to understand what death was. It therefore seems logical to me that he had seen animals die. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have understood death and the seriousness of God's warning.
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I agree with that, Theo.
 
Theofilus said:
No, I don't think they would, because I don't believe animals were created to live forever. There are two reasons I believe this. The first is Scripture. God told Adam:
“You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.†(Gen. 2:16-17 NIV)
​
In his letter to the Romans:
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned (Rom. 5:12 NIV)
​
There's no mention of animals dying as a result of sin, only man.

The second reason is simply logic. For Adam to understand what God was telling him, he had to understand what death was. It therefore seems logical to me that he had seen animals die. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have understood death and the seriousness of God's warning.
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Okay ...then how about women since only 'man' is mentioned?
 
KCKID said:
Okay ...then how about women since only 'man' is mentioned?
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Every truly thinking person knows that we are all in the family of beings called 'man'. Your query is pretty much classified as trolling.
 
Alabaster said:
Every truly thinking person knows that we are all in the family of beings called 'man'. Your query is pretty much classified as trolling.
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Well, you appear to think that you're right about everything else . . .;)

I guess you know that women were considered to be the property of the man, do you not? Therefore, not really worthy of mention. Off-topic, I know, but true nonetheless.
 
KCKID said:
Well, you appear to think that you're right about everything else . . .;)

I guess you know that women were considered to be the property of the man, do you not? Therefore, not really worthy of mention. Off-topic, I know, but true nonetheless.
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watch the tones, and uh alabaster is a lady.
 
jasoncran said:
watch the tones, and uh alabaster is a lady.
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Oh really ...? Funny the picture you get in your mind when conversing with someone on the board. I thought Alabaster was a male duck and I can't quite get that picture out of my mind.

:)
 
KCKID said:
Well, you appear to think that you're right about everything else . . .;)
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Everyone does---even you. However I choose to speak here about what I know, rather than what I don't.

I guess you know that women were considered to be the property of the man, do you not? Therefore, not really worthy of mention. Off-topic, I know, but true nonetheless.
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The property issue is historically aberrant to how God has created men and women to exist together.

It has nothing to do with the topic at hand, however... :screwloose
 
Alabaster said:
Everyone does---even you. However I choose to speak here about what I know, rather than what I don't.



The property issue is historically aberrant to how God has created men and women to exist together.

It has nothing to do with the topic at hand, however... :screwloose
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Don't steal my thunder ...I already acknowledged that it had nothing to do with the topic. :rant

Back to the topic, I would truly hope that provisions have been made by Almighty God for folks to be reunited with their animal friends.
 
KCKID said:
Don't steal my thunder ...I already acknowledged that it had nothing to do with the topic. :rant

Back to the topic, I would truly hope that provisions have been made by Almighty God for folks to be reunited with their animal friends.
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on the earth only. while i would like to see that.its not something i will be mad about if it doesnt happen.
 
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