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Do you agree, or disagree?

Does a genuine believer who stops believing and dies in that unbelief remain saved?

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Wrg1405 said:
You have quoted to me in the past that you don't agree with hyper-grace doctrine and if memory serves me correctly and correct me if I'm wrong that it seems to you that it promotes antinomianism (we can sin all we want and still be saved) I have to say that I don't see that in the hyper-grace theology.
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Read my new thread about the horrors of the hyper-grace movement.
 
reba said:
IF members dont resist the hyper-grace then why o why do we mods spend so much moderating them? :wall
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I know others chime in, but me and JLB seem to be the only one's who really care about this horrible twisting of God's grace that is overcoming the church. It pangs me to see Christians adding their 'amen' to the fundamental OSAS message of the hyper-grace movement while being utterly silent about how it turns the grace of God into a license to sin, and to even go back to unbelief, with complete impunity.
 
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I don't think there are genuine believers that stop believing. Remember Jesus said the gate is narrow and few find it.

Lots of people say they believe and it is wishful thinking on their part. Their hearts really don't want/aren't ready for the truth.
 
LovethroughDove said:
I don't think there are genuine believers that stop believing.
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This was one of the answers that one could answer this poll with. But I deleted all explanatory answers and opted to just have people explain their yes or no answers in posts.

I used to believe what you are saying. But I now know that to not be true. My wife was a genuine believer who has stopped believing. I learned (without going into details about her failure of faith) that instead of faith being an 'either or' thing it's actually a matter of how strong faith is. Strong faith is what you need to endure to the end. Weak faith is what can not endure in it's belief to the end. But the popular belief in the church has been that to fail in your faith signifies that you simply didn't really have faith to begin with. My wife proved that wrong for me. Her problem was weak faith, not no faith at all.

I started a thread about the man who had his forgiveness rescinded. I started it to show how it isn't that the man wasn't really forgiven to being with, but rather that his receiving of the forgiveness, that he surely did receive, was flawed, not non-existent. And so it is with people who really get their sins forgiven by God, but who then lose that forgiveness. It wasn't that they didn't really get their sins forgiven. It's they did not receive it with a strong faith.
 
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It sounds like her faith was not set in her heart/Spirit as 100%. Saving faith, (genuine faith) is knowing 100% that Jesus and everything about him is legit. Kind of like you know 100% that you need air to breathe.
 
LovethroughDove said:
It sounds like her faith was not set in her heart/Spirit as 100%. Saving faith, (genuine faith) is knowing 100% that Jesus and everything about him is legit. Kind of like you know 100% that you need air to breathe.
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I don't know about Jethro's wife....but I believe a true believer can have their faith shaken to a point that they may stop believing. For isntance, maybe they have experienced a great tragety then take the attitude that a loving God wouldn't do such a thing to a believer. Perhaps a true believer is convinced by a college professor that there isn't a God and they stop believing. The reasons can be many.
Fortunatly the deceptions they began to accept isn't enough to cause a loss of salvation.
 
LovethroughDove said:
It sounds like her faith was not set in her heart/Spirit as 100%. Saving faith, (genuine faith) is knowing 100% that Jesus and everything about him is legit. Kind of like you know 100% that you need air to breathe.
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As the closest person to her you'll just have to trust me that she was indeed saved. But she proved to be of the second quality of soil--her roots didn't go down deep enough to endure the heat of the trials and temptations of the faith.
 
Cygnus said:
I don't know about Jethro's wife....but I believe a true believer can have their faith shaken to a point that they may stop believing. For isntance, maybe they have experienced a great tragety then take the attitude that a loving God wouldn't do such a thing to a believer. Perhaps a true believer is convinced by a college professor that there isn't a God and they stop believing. The reasons can be many.
Fortunatly the deceptions they began to accept isn't enough to cause a loss of salvation.
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I just don't agree. The parable of the sower explains who are the true believers. Matthew 13:23

I know this sounds naïve, but I have been through some faith shaking things and my faith is like Job's.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
As the closest person to her you'll just have to trust me that she was indeed saved. But she proved to be of the second quality of soil--her roots didn't go down deep enough to endure the heat of the trials and temptations of the faith.
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I see the sower parable with only the good soil being saved people. Maybe she has some good soil waiting for the right seed?
 
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A saved person, is one who has been saved by God, through Christ's Atonement.
This means that God accepted their Faith, and applied the Blood of Jesus to them, which is an eternal situation, once applied.
A person thus born again, does not wake up the next day needing to keep believing for what has already been completed.

Salvation, is a completed process, once applied, and you do not keep believing and hoping and working, for it to last.
Its lasts eternally because its completed on your behalf the very instant you trusted Christ and were born again.
Salvation is the same thing as "born again""......One is the Other.
This is why you dont keep repenting to be born again over and over, any more then you keep repenting to be saved again, over and over.
A NEW BIRTH, is a fixed position, that is not connected to how you behave after you are born.

Salvation, IS the New Birth, and this is not connected to how you behave after you are born again.
God did all this for you, as a free gift, and applies it to you ONE TIME, (born again), and you do none of it for yourself, not to earn it, nor to keep it.
ITS A GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.
YOU DONT EARN OR WORK FOR A GIFT.

After you are saved, ONCE, (born again once)....= then you are to behave HOLY because you ARE SAVED, YET never do you behave HOLY to try to BE SAVED or to try to STAY Saved, because once you believe you have to do that, you are "fallen from Grace", and have become involved with trying to save yourself, which is impossible, as you are already SAVED and KEPT SAVED by Redemption <> Blood Atonement.
 
It is my great hope that we are saved through Jesus. Possibly even more then those who have faith in Jesus, but that's a hope and even an extension of hope. As far as those who once believed genuinely, but later lost their faith. It is my greatest hope that Jesus hold so to them even after they lose hold on Jesus. My hope is hope though, not solid enough to argue that it is right or not, or to defend that it is correct. Just hope for those that I love and those that I know. Greedily I hope Jesus came to save the entire world and that God will find a way to grant His will to be done here on Earth, instead of so much loss for the sake of war against a sining and broken world.
 
I'm generally OSAS, but if it is possible for a true believer to relinquish their belief then I believe they will not be under salvation. It's not our works that get us into heaven, but our salvation is dependent on accepting Jesus.
 
I find it hard to believe that there are christians that seriously believe you can be snatched from Jesus' hand.
 
i believe one can walk away
Jethro Bodine said:
As the closest person to her you'll just have to trust me that she was indeed saved. But she proved to be of the second quality of soil--her roots didn't go down deep enough to endure the heat of the trials and temptations of the faith.
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My Uncle i have been told ,was a christian young man.. he died cursing God .
Can we know another's heart... .. in our human selfs the spouse would be the one to make that call ... I do believe we can turn our back to Him It is not Him that leaves the relationship... like the prodigal son He will welcome our return.. . one can not return if they dont go
the promise to Abe carried obedience on abe's part ..
 
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